Why are we so polarized?

[auditor0007]

Yea sure.. We have a President who is a hard left self proclaimed Socialist (Redistribution of wealth) who has all but destroyed capitalism and sunk us in debt by another 7 trillion after this year's budet and for the first time, you a republican will vote for the Socialist. ROFLMAO------------------ I've got some land to sell you.. Tony Rezko gave it to me!!

Obama is as much of a socialist as GW Bush, wouldn't you say?

Obama to date has kept the Bush tax cuts in place while actually adding a few more tax cuts. Socialists don't cut taxes. Now if you want to call Obama a socialist because he got us out of a war that we probably shouldn't have been involved in the first place, then I guess I'm a socialist. As for spending, wasn't it GW who expanded the drug benefit for Medicare? How socialist of him, wouldn't you say?

Most of you have no clue what a socialist is.

I didn't vote for that idiot George Bush nor will I vote for the idiot Obama..BUT YOU WILL. Kinda made yourself out to be an ass hmm? How does that feel?

You are the only ass here.

 

[Steelplate]

I asked a simple question.. You liberals love welfare and champion social programs. Who the hell is going to work to provide all of the TRILLIONS of dollars to support your welfare state??

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

WTF are you babbling about?? Again, you refused to answer the question because the truth is, LIBERALISM aka SOCIALISM has never worked and would fall flat on its fucking face. You constantly assign your thought process (which btw is really fucked up) to me.. Where the hell did I say I don't believe in workforce rights?? SHOW ME. You're useless to debate.. all you do is make up shit, strawmen.

Ok.....let's establish your views on the workforce....unionization? Go.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Obama is as much of a socialist as GW Bush, wouldn't you say?

Obama to date has kept the Bush tax cuts in place while actually adding a few more tax cuts. Socialists don't cut taxes. Now if you want to call Obama a socialist because he got us out of a war that we probably shouldn't have been involved in the first place, then I guess I'm a socialist. As for spending, wasn't it GW who expanded the drug benefit for Medicare? How socialist of him, wouldn't you say?

Most of you have no clue what a socialist is.

I didn't vote for that idiot George Bush nor will I vote for the idiot Obama..BUT YOU WILL. Kinda made yourself out to be an ass hmm? How does that feel?

You are the only ass here.

Lame.. you were handed your ass..Go put your liberal tail between you legs and ooze back beneath your rock before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

 

[Mac1958]

Oh and BTW- Redistribution of wealth IS SOCIALISM.

I don't understand this. We already redistribute wealth.

Does that mean America is a socialist country? If not, at precisely what point do we become one? It would be helpful if you can provide examples of tax rates, or government spending as a percentage of GDP, something like that.

.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

WTF are you babbling about?? Again, you refused to answer the question because the truth is, LIBERALISM aka SOCIALISM has never worked and would fall flat on its fucking face. You constantly assign your thought process (which btw is really fucked up) to me.. Where the hell did I say I don't believe in workforce rights?? SHOW ME. You're useless to debate.. all you do is make up shit, strawmen.

Ok.....let's establish your views on the workforce....unionization? Go.

I see nothing wrong with Unions in a nation who champions liberty so long as those Unions do not become so powerful as to force their members to vote their ideology.

 

[peach174]

Yet they seem to be making more in profits than ever in our history. Are your SURE you are getting the truth from the Pro-Business media?

Having owned a business of my own at one time. I don't need pro business media.
Sure they are making more profits. When you don't spend your profits on expansion with more employees you make more money.
When the government gives you healthcare that will cost you more for each employee and EPA is making you spend more in regulations, that money is not being used to expand your business, nor can you afford to hire more employees unless you are a very large corporation.

You just stated that they are making more profits but they can't afford to hire more employees or expand their businesses. That is a complete contradiction.

Do you have a savings account, Steelplate?

Your business makes 10,000.00 a month in profit. The new health care bill will cost you more if you hire new people, so you will not hire. You keep your 10,000.00 and no one else will have a new job with your businesses.
When you sit on your 10,000.00 a month and put it in savings, that saving accumulates a percentage in profits, you make more money by sitting on it rather than expansion of businesses.
I personally would rather want to keep my 10,000.00, than hire more people and only make 5,000.00 a month.

 

[WillowTree]

Funny...you do realize that it's the red States that suck up most of the milk from the government teat, don't you?

I asked a simple question.. You liberals love welfare and champion social programs. Who the hell is going to work to provide all of the TRILLIONS of dollars to support your welfare state??

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

 

[Sactowndog]

An interesting article from BBC. I think sites like this, Brietbart, Daily Kos and the likes of Fox and MSNBC are first and foremost among the culprits. The internet has allowed us to accomplish a great deal, but the drawbacks are becoming more apparent with each passing year. Also, much of MSM has dropped it's impartiality in favor of gaining ratings with those who want news spun their way. I don't know if it will ever get better.

Well, now I see that I have to have 15 points (whatever the hell those are) to post a link to other sites. Kinda silly. Anyway the article is on BBC's web page and is called "What happened to America's community spirit?", if some one with this ponderous posting privilege is inclined to link it.

I wonder if I can say that.

It's generational. The current generation in charge has never had a cummunity spirit because that means compromising your ideals to listen and incorporate the thoughts of others.

Witness the comments of retiring older Senators who complain about the nature of the institution. See primary attacks against moderates who are pure enough. See pledges to never do XX regardless of the situation or circumstance.

We are in a generation of ideological purists for whom others with different ideology are evil or anti-American. Hopefully it will pass before this generation does too much damage to the country.

 

[Sactowndog]

I asked a simple question.. You liberals love welfare and champion social programs. Who the hell is going to work to provide all of the TRILLIONS of dollars to support your welfare state??

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

It's not an either or which is a big part of the problem.

Pure capitalism without some government regulation functions poorly. Only the right wing purists want to live in that world. And yes some income redistribution to insure everyone has a shot (as Obama stated) is good for the country. The country is better off when those with the most talent are able to rise to the top and are hindered by the money/power of others trying to enable their heirs.

Government can and must counter the natural capitalist function of society hardening into permanent classes. In the last 20 years we have done a poorer job of this than our developed world counterparts. Largely I believe because we have spent too much on the elderly and the safety net and not enough on the youth making our opportunity launch pad better.

 

[kiwiman127]

Why are we so polarized?
Way too many people live by their ideology's talking points, which are usually exaggerated to the max. I mean, how many times do we see several people from the same side of the aisle repeat some crazy talking point almost word-for-word in the matter of hours?
This all leads to the "you're with us or against us" hate thought process and of course the polarization.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Pure capitalism without some government regulation functions poorly. Only the right wing purists want to live in that world.

There is no capitalism without regulation for the protection of wealth. Any right wing purist will tell you that

It is when government regulation shifts from ensuring equal access and protection to equal results and outcomes the problems ensue.

 

[Steelplate]

WTF are you babbling about?? Again, you refused to answer the question because the truth is, LIBERALISM aka SOCIALISM has never worked and would fall flat on its fucking face. You constantly assign your thought process (which btw is really fucked up) to me.. Where the hell did I say I don't believe in workforce rights?? SHOW ME. You're useless to debate.. all you do is make up shit, strawmen.

Ok.....let's establish your views on the workforce....unionization? Go.

I see nothing wrong with Unions in a nation who champions liberty so long as those Unions do not become so powerful as to force their members to vote their ideology.

Ahh..but.... you have to realize the the voting sentiment is the result of the actions of that particular party. And no union FORCES members to vote one way or another. They send out pamphlets, they stump for the candidate that is most favorable towards labor...but they don't pull the lever for anyone.

I do agree however that Unions shouldn't get too powerful. That's what happened in the 70's and combined with a rebuilt Japan and the OPEC oil embargo that we were in in no way, shape or form prepared for, caused the huge recession that lead to Reaganomics.....which virtually destroyed private sector unions, started the whole snowball effect of lower wages and huge breaks for big business, and the gradual erosion of our economy that is still going on today.

Hey...it made sense....in a perfect world where everyone does the right thing, but we don't live in that perfect world, apparently not by a long shot.

But anyway...back to unions.... I think that they are....like social programs...necessary....but they....like social programs.....can't be allowed to get too powerful. IMO, a Union's job should be limited to the following....Negotiating wage and benefit contracts, and making sure that discipline and termination of employment is done fairly....that's it.
Management should have the right to discipline and/or fire people if they aren't abiding by agreed upon policy and work/production requirements. The Union's role is to make sure that the charges against the employee are valid and enforceable according to contract. If the charge is valid and enforceable, the union should defer to management on the course of discipline. They should be able to ask for a lesser punishment....but that should be a request....not a demand.

I think also that unions should also have access to the business's books if it comes down to the business trying to get out of a contract for financial reasons. That's where Unions need to also be responsible and realize that if a business is struggling, that giving up some things is better than the business shutting down.

I am pro-union...but that doesn't mean that I don't get it. Just like welfare....I have zero problems with giving someone a leg up....but if they are able to work, I think they should work for those benefits....My reasoning is that if they have to work for the minimal existence that welfare offers...then that should provide ample motivation to work for a real wage.

 

[Steelplate]

I asked a simple question.. You liberals love welfare and champion social programs. Who the hell is going to work to provide all of the TRILLIONS of dollars to support your welfare state??

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

Who said anything about replacing Capitalism? I just want mega-conglomerates broken up, their power and influence reduced and be held accountable to their country which is faltering because of all the breaks that they've been given and has not been reciprocal.

 

[Freewill]

Having owned a business of my own at one time. I don't need pro business media.
Sure they are making more profits. When you don't spend your profits on expansion with more employees you make more money.
When the government gives you healthcare that will cost you more for each employee and EPA is making you spend more in regulations, that money is not being used to expand your business, nor can you afford to hire more employees unless you are a very large corporation.

You just stated that they are making more profits but they can't afford to hire more employees or expand their businesses. That is a complete contradiction.

Do you have a savings account, Steelplate?

Your business makes 10,000.00 a month in profit. The new health care bill will cost you more if you hire new people, so you will not hire. You keep your 10,000.00 and no one else will have a new job with your businesses.
When you sit on your 10,000.00 a month and put it in savings, that saving accumulates a percentage in profits, you make more money by sitting on it rather than expansion of businesses.
I personally would rather want to keep my 10,000.00, than hire more people and only make 5,000.00 a month.

You are correct, it is cheaper to pay overtime then it is to hire people.

 

[GoneBezerk]

The nation is split between people that don't like the federal govt acting like it is in charge of our lives and it has the right to "even the playing field" because some people are just dumb, lazy or whatever to explain their plight in life.

Also, we don't like the Democraps that pander to islam while trashing Christians and the Jews on any foreign policy/national security issue. Islamic terrorists want to take us back to the stone ages and Democraps either support it or don't care.

It gets back to stupid, evil people. Democraps are stupid, evil people. I don't like those kind of people and believe some of them should be locked away for the sake of mankind's future.

 

[Steelplate]

Having owned a business of my own at one time. I don't need pro business media.
Sure they are making more profits. When you don't spend your profits on expansion with more employees you make more money.
When the government gives you healthcare that will cost you more for each employee and EPA is making you spend more in regulations, that money is not being used to expand your business, nor can you afford to hire more employees unless you are a very large corporation.

You just stated that they are making more profits but they can't afford to hire more employees or expand their businesses. That is a complete contradiction.

Do you have a savings account, Steelplate?

Your business makes 10,000.00 a month in profit. The new health care bill will cost you more if you hire new people, so you will not hire. You keep your 10,000.00 and no one else will have a new job with your businesses.
When you sit on your 10,000.00 a month and put it in savings, that saving accumulates a percentage in profits, you make more money by sitting on it rather than expansion of businesses.
I personally would rather want to keep my 10,000.00, than hire more people and only make 5,000.00 a month.

Of course you would. So, the real question is.....why didn't you support a Public Option that would have cost you an extra $1000/month in the form of taxation rather than the the current on that costs you $5000 in the form of the mandate?

The need for expansion goes beyond the cost of the mandate. The problem, once again...is why does your company not grow? Why aren't you selling enough goods or services to expand? Could it be that people don't have money? Could it be that at $12K/year for health insurance, that it's keeping people from using your product?

 

[WillowTree]

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

Who said anything about replacing Capitalism? I just want mega-conglomerates broken up, their power and influence reduced and be held accountable to their country which is faltering because of all the breaks that they've been given and has not been reciprocal.

oh,, so it's okay to mess with them but don't mess with unions,, is that your take on it?

 

[squinch]

The nation is split between people that don't like the federal govt acting like it is in charge of our lives and it has the right to "even the playing field" because some people are just dumb, lazy or whatever to explain their plight in life.

Also, we don't like the Democraps that pander to islam while trashing Christians and the Jews on any foreign policy/national security issue. Islamic terrorists want to take us back to the stone ages and Democraps either support it or don't care.

It gets back to stupid, evil people. Democraps are stupid, evil people. I don't like those kind of people and believe some of them should be locked away for the sake of mankind's future.

This post illustrates exactly why we are polarized. When you label those with whom you disagree as stupid and evil, you don't leave a lot of wiggle room for meaningful dialogue.

 

[Freewill]

I asked a simple question.. You liberals love welfare and champion social programs. Who the hell is going to work to provide all of the TRILLIONS of dollars to support your welfare state??

I don't "love" welfare....I do champion social programs because they are necessary.

Let me ask you something....why don't you criticize the Capitalists that make those programs necessary? Why don't you support. working people and only support those that profit off of them? If those people are so essential and working folk are so expendible....let's have a private sector, nationwide strike and let's see how much gets done.

Oh...but that's right....you don't believe that the workforce has any rights....they are the "job creator's" bitches.

We don't need more government programs....we need a Teddy Roosevelt behind the helm and a Lech Walesa to tally the workforce.

what do you plan to replace capitalism with?

My guess would be, un-free enterprise.

 

[WillowTree]

The nation is split between people that don't like the federal govt acting like it is in charge of our lives and it has the right to "even the playing field" because some people are just dumb, lazy or whatever to explain their plight in life.

Also, we don't like the Democraps that pander to islam while trashing Christians and the Jews on any foreign policy/national security issue. Islamic terrorists want to take us back to the stone ages and Democraps either support it or don't care.

It gets back to stupid, evil people. Democraps are stupid, evil people. I don't like those kind of people and believe some of them should be locked away for the sake of mankind's future.

It's split between those who have worked hard for what they have and between those who say "you didn't build that" who want what you have.