Why are some many anti-religious and...

[Luissa]

Scoff at and dismiss religious values and morals as intolerance? It seems like being against homosexual marriage, premarital sex, pornography, foul language, and dressing distastefully on religious grounds makes one an intolerant, ignorant bigot, but being against these sinful things actually will improve and help society.

I don't dismiss your values and religion! But when you dismiss someone and say someone who doesn't believe in the same thing you do they are wrong I dismiss you.
You can be Christian and accept that other people have different beliefs. I have a friend who is a christian and follows their teachings completly and thinks homosexuality is unchristian like but has no problem with gay people because he understands that all people don't think the same way. You can think and believe a certain way but when you start pushing your beliefs on other people and saying they are wrong because they are doing something YOU see as wrong than that makes you intolerable.

 

[Gunny]

Actually they aren't. Being an atheist doesn't mean one has no morals, it's very hard for the delusional to understand that.

They are too, they're based on the Ten Commandments mostly, atheists have nothing upon which to base any morals and values, thats why wahtever morals and values they do have are derived from religious sources.

Im an atheist, yet i do not commit murder nor do i have any desire to. There are countless "god fearing" people in prison who HAVE murdered, raped, assaulted, robbed, etc. Every man on deathrow prays to your god.

Why the fuck would i need that dumb ass book of yours to know the difference between right and wrong? You are so god damn clueless.

Based on what I've seen of your posts, you obviously need someone to teach you some manners.

There are also atheists in prison who have murdered, raped, assaulted, robbed, etc. What's your point?

 

[Gunny]

They are too, they're based on the Ten Commandments mostly

Boy, you sure say alot of stupid things, dont you. How many of your ten commandments are even illegal in the US? The answer is 2. Where in the ten commandments does it talk about not torturing people? How about molesting children? Rape? Kidnapping? You can hardly say that our laws are based off of the ten commandments. Thats dumb dumb talk.

Your ten commandments are a joke, and the guy that wrote them was a fucking retard. This is further proof how out of touch those primitive men who wrote your book are from things that are considered morally important today.

You are ignorant and wrong, besides being mannerless. Try again.

 

[Gunny]

Scoff at and dismiss religious values and morals as intolerance? It seems like being against homosexual marriage, premarital sex, pornography, foul language, and dressing distastefully on religious grounds makes one an intolerant, ignorant bigot, but being against these sinful things actually will improve and help society.

Ignorance must truly be bliss ... since you seem to revel in it.

Why do you think that only your religious ideas are valid, much less think that everyone who doesn't share them are "anti-religion" ... ignorance .. with each post you remove all doubt.

Ah ... the gang's all here.

 

[Gunny]

Scoff at and dismiss religious values and morals as intolerance? It seems like being against homosexual marriage, premarital sex, pornography, foul language, and dressing distastefully on religious grounds makes one an intolerant, ignorant bigot, but being against these sinful things actually will improve and help society.

Your examples aside, those that feel the need to constantly attack religion, and Christianity specifically, do so out of fear or wannabe-intellectual elitism.

he was saying you have to have religion in order to have morals and that's not true.

I read his post. He said that later. I don't see it in the post I quoted. I see a question based on the repetitive attacks against religion, and anyone espousing religious values and morals are labelled intolerant. One of the handy deflections used by the anti-God Squad.

 

[Gunny]

Regardless. As insufferable an ass as Charles is, he DOES have a point. The same anti-God Squad can be found ranting in just about every thread in this forum. I have YET to see an actual debate on religion OR ethics that isn't a bunch of name-calling before the first page is full.

"Before the first page is full" is a relative term, when it comes to Terral or Pubeless Infantilium.

Ignore them. Obviously calling them names doesn't work, and religious or anti-religious, BOTH groups KNOW neither of them represent mainstream anything. They are only labeled as such to disingenuously attack religion.

 

[elvis]

Your examples aside, those that feel the need to constantly attack religion, and Christianity specifically, do so out of fear or wannabe-intellectual elitism.

he was saying you have to have religion in order to have morals and that's not true.

I read his post. He said that later. I don't see it in the post I quoted. I see a question based on the repetitive attacks against religion, and anyone espousing religious values and morals are labelled intolerant. One of the handy deflections used by the anti-God Squad.

Yeah, I was just stating what he had said somewhere in the thread.

 

[k2skier]

They are too, they're based on the Ten Commandments mostly, atheists have nothing upon which to base any morals and values, thats why wahtever morals and values they do have are derived from religious sources.

1-is a jealous god
2-more of the same
3-ditto
4-do you really think no one works on Sunday anymore!
5-common sense
6-9 may have a little to do with laws but again they are just common sense
10-is almost funny, but again just plain old common sense, don't screw your neighbor's ass, lol!

So do you really believe in talking snakes and that an invisible man lives in the sky?
If you do, you must also believe that the earth is flat and that the sun revolves around the earth. Morals and believing in god have nothing in common.
How come so many priests are found guilty of child molestation every day?

As I said ... wannabe intellectual elitists. Smarter than the average bear.

so...you must believe in talking snakes and an invisible man in the sky? I have insulted no one, nor gotten angry. I believe everyone should have the "freedom of religion", I happen to interpret it as "freedom from religion".

I'm not tied down by any dogma or Deity, I live my life happy and fulfilled, I'm very moral and ethical, and don't need any book to tell me so.

 

[Gunny]

actually, I despise religion because of the nutbat fuckwads it produces. Go look in the mirror if you want to spot one. Your opinion of sin means two things to me: jack and shit. As does your opinoin about cultural moral standards.

ahhh yes.. it's a good time to hemorrhage followers like a severed carotid artery, eh dude?

I despise anti-religious zealots because of the nutbat fuckwads it produces that have to bleed all over every religion thread like a severed carotid artery.

In case you were interested in seeing what a nutbat's fuckwad looked like...

:)

Matter of fact, I am not.

 

[Luissa]

Regardless. As insufferable an ass as Charles is, he DOES have a point. The same anti-God Squad can be found ranting in just about every thread in this forum. I have YET to see an actual debate on religion OR ethics that isn't a bunch of name-calling before the first page is full.

"Before the first page is full" is a relative term, when it comes to Terral or Pubeless Infantilium.

Ignore them. Obviously calling them names doesn't work, and religious or anti-religious, BOTH groups KNOW neither of them represent mainstream anything. They are only labeled as such to disingenuously attack religion.

as for your anti god squad, I think there is more of the Pro God squad ranting about people that don't believe in what they do. And as for name calling, I have had more so called christian people call me names because I didn't go along with their beliefs than anyone else on here.

 

[Gunny]

he was saying you have to have religion in order to have morals and that's not true.

I read his post. He said that later. I don't see it in the post I quoted. I see a question based on the repetitive attacks against religion, and anyone espousing religious values and morals are labelled intolerant. One of the handy deflections used by the anti-God Squad.

Yeah, I was just stating what he had said somewhere in the thread.

It's debatable. One CAN have morals without religion. Simply put, that is because our society has forgotten where it came from. Western morals and values are INDEED based on Judeo-Christian morals and values. That's just a simple common-sense fact.

 

[Gunny]

1-is a jealous god
2-more of the same
3-ditto
4-do you really think no one works on Sunday anymore!
5-common sense
6-9 may have a little to do with laws but again they are just common sense
10-is almost funny, but again just plain old common sense, don't screw your neighbor's ass, lol!

So do you really believe in talking snakes and that an invisible man lives in the sky?
If you do, you must also believe that the earth is flat and that the sun revolves around the earth. Morals and believing in god have nothing in common.
How come so many priests are found guilty of child molestation every day?

As I said ... wannabe intellectual elitists. Smarter than the average bear.

so...you must believe in talking snakes and an invisible man in the sky? I have insulted no one, nor gotten angry. I believe everyone should have the "freedom of religion", I happen to interpret it as "freedom from religion".

I'm not tied down by any dogma or Deity, I live my life happy and fulfilled, I'm very moral and ethical, and don't need any book to tell me so.

What I believe in is irrelevant. However, don't try to piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'. Your comments are OBVIOUSLY condescending -- which is insulting by another name --, so save the "I have insulted no one," victim act.

Let's be clear -- I'm not judging your beliefs. I don't care what you do or don't believe in. I'm judging your judging MY beliefs when they are no more your business than yours are mine.

 

[Gunny]

"Before the first page is full" is a relative term, when it comes to Terral or Pubeless Infantilium.

Ignore them. Obviously calling them names doesn't work, and religious or anti-religious, BOTH groups KNOW neither of them represent mainstream anything. They are only labeled as such to disingenuously attack religion.

as for your anti god squad, I think there is more of the Pro God squad ranting about people that don't believe in what they do. And as for name calling, I have had more so called christian people call me names because I didn't go along with their beliefs than anyone else on here.

I don't know what board you've been posting on, but if you think THAT, it isn't this one.

 

[k2skier]

As I said ... wannabe intellectual elitists. Smarter than the average bear.

so...you must believe in talking snakes and an invisible man in the sky? I have insulted no one, nor gotten angry. I believe everyone should have the "freedom of religion", I happen to interpret it as "freedom from religion".

I'm not tied down by any dogma or Deity, I live my life happy and fulfilled, I'm very moral and ethical, and don't need any book to tell me so.

What I believe in is irrelevant. However, don't try to piss down my back and tell me it's rainin'. Your comments are OBVIOUSLY condescending -- which is insulting by another name --, so save the "I have insulted no one," victim act.

Let's be clear -- I'm not judging your beliefs. I don't care what you do or don't believe in. I'm judging your judging MY beliefs when they are no more your business than yours are mine.

I wish you wouldn't take it that way, if my comments made you feel that they were condescending, I apologize. I believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and if you are thin skinned on this subject, then YOU might want to tone it down a notch. Have a nice day.

 

[KittenKoder]

If you need someone or something else to tell you what is right or good ... there is something seriously wrong with you ... much like Charles Manson and his ilk.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

riiiight.. because christians NEVER do anything wrong and/or stupid...





Sorry, dude. once again you fucking fail.

hell, i'll even let your mention of my family slide given how fubar'ed this thread is.

Real Christians, not pretenders, are truly religious because real Christians don't repeatedly do something they know to be wrong, they haven't really accepted the Word of God if they did. You can't go one day in your entire life without cussing, that shows a lack of discipline as well.

That's BS. "Real" Christians strive to be Christ-like, KNOWING they will fail.

You can't go a day without passing judgment on some group or person. Want to refresh my memory on THAT in regard to what Christ says? Or is it YOU that needs the refresher?

Following what is written in the scriptures makes one a real Christian and the Bass judges no one, its the scriptures that the Bass quotes and Him whose Word it is that judges people.

 

[KittenKoder]

Real Christians, not pretenders, are truly religious because real Christians don't repeatedly do something they know to be wrong, they haven't really accepted the Word of God if they did. You can't go one day in your entire life without cussing, that shows a lack of discipline as well.

That's BS. "Real" Christians strive to be Christ-like, KNOWING they will fail.

You can't go a day without passing judgment on some group or person. Want to refresh my memory on THAT in regard to what Christ says? Or is it YOU that needs the refresher?

Following what is written in the scriptures makes one a real Christian and the Bass judges no one, its the scriptures that the Bass quotes and Him whose Word it is that judges people.

No ... I have respect for real Christians like Gunny ... I even avoid debating religion with them out of said respect ...

... what I don't respect, nor do I care for their existence, are scum like you who use your religious ideals as an excuse to judge. Yes, you are judging, and you are judging very poorly, not only that but you treat people based on how you judge their own personal choices or even based on traits they have no control over. Judge if you wish ... but don't ever expect anyone else to agree with you, and don't force your twisted beliefs on anyone else, including the good Christians who are not as vile as you. You are the reason there is hatred for all christians in the US right now, not the good ones, it's people like you that give them a bad name. I would turn my back if they got together and lynched you, and any like you, for that to. Hell, I'd pay for the rope.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Look at how you talk, you cuss more than anyone in here and why? You lack morals and values, mommy and daddy didn't have much of a brain when it came to teaching you, did they? Actually, people who are *NOT* religious are actually the worst ones in society, if they thought about God and Jesus, they would think twice before they did something wrong or something stupid.

riiiight.. because christians NEVER do anything wrong and/or stupid...





Sorry, dude. once again you fucking fail.

hell, i'll even let your mention of my family slide given how fubar'ed this thread is.

Real Christians, not pretenders, are truly religious because real Christians don't repeatedly do something they know to be wrong, they haven't really accepted the Word of God if they did. You can't go one day in your entire life without cussing, that shows a lack of discipline as well.

Lacking discipline would apply if there were anything inherently damaging about offensive language. In reality, people who get offended by naughty language need to lighten up and reevaluate their priorities. Cursing all the time is only negative in that using the same word all the time reflects a lack of vocabulary.

The laws you live under today in the US are based on religious principles. More religious principles means more values and morals for society. The lack of morals and values would lead to a more chaotic society.

Actually they aren't. Being an atheist doesn't mean one has no morals, it's very hard for the delusional to understand that.

They are too, they're based on the Ten Commandments mostly, atheists have nothing upon which to base any morals and values, thats why wahtever morals and values they do have are derived from religious sources.

It'd be more accurate to say that we all inherit some of our values from a time in which fewer people were openly/actually atheistic. However, simple logic is the real direction from which we arrive at moral facts. Why is it bad to murder? Because when everybody agrees to not murder we can live a more secure life. Because by killing somebody we deprive the overall social group of that individual's contribution. The idea that killing is wrong because God owns lives is counterproductive to morality. Why? Well first the bible condones killing when God says so. When god says so? How can you distinguish between god telling you to do something and being insane when it comes to killing somebody? You certainly can't tell the difference and I would argue there is no difference.

Buttwipe.....listen.....you are the perfect example of what the Bass is talking about, you despise religion because following religious morals and values prevents you from living your sinful anything goes lifestyle.

actually, I despise religion because of the nutbat fuckwads it produces. Go look in the mirror if you want to spot one. Your opinion of sin means two things to me: jack and shit. As does your opinoin about cultural moral standards.

ahhh yes.. it's a good time to hemorrhage followers like a severed carotid artery, eh dude?

Look at how you talk, you cuss more than anyone in here and why? You lack morals and values, mommy and daddy didn't have much of a brain when it came to teaching you, did they? Actually, people who are *NOT* religious are actually the worst ones in society, if they thought about God and Jesus, they would think twice before they did something wrong or something stupid.

And it's so much better to replace real curse words with infantile epithets like "buttwipe,"

They are too, they're based on the Ten Commandments mostly, atheists have nothing upon which to base any morals and values, thats why wahtever morals and values they do have are derived from religious sources.

Im an atheist, yet i do not commit murder nor do i have any desire to. There are countless "god fearing" people in prison who HAVE murdered, raped, assaulted, robbed, etc. Every man on deathrow prays to your god.

Why the fuck would i need that dumb ass book of yours to know the difference between right and wrong? You are so god damn clueless.

Based on what I've seen of your posts, you obviously need someone to teach you some manners.

There are also atheists in prison who have murdered, raped, assaulted, robbed, etc. What's your point?

Probably at a lower rate than the general population though. However, I should say this might have more to do with religion being a defense mechanism for despair. If you're not doing well, you grab for a safety blanket and suck on it.

There are few studies on atheism in prison populations. But even from a highly conservative vantage-point atheism is less prevalent in prisons than the general population. In the below quote, atheism of the general population in 1990 is compared to atheism in prisons in 1997. The rate of atheism in the general population (1990) was double that of prisons (1997). I am assuming you know atheism increased between 1990 and 1997. Thus this is likely an underestimate.

The actual proportion of atheists [, i.e. active disbelief in God,] in the United States is about 0.5% (half of one percent). This is the figure obtained from the largest survey of religious preference ever conducted: the National Survey of Religious Identification (Kosmin, 1990), which polled 113,000 people. The religious preference questions were part of questioning completely unrelated to religious preference (consumer preferences, entertainment, etc.), so the frequent retort of atheists that their numbers don't like to admit to atheism, and hence are undercounted, is unlikely.

Still, if one accepts as accurate the estimate that 0.209% of federal prisoners, this is still an incarceration rate only one half of their numbers in the general population

.

Prison Incarceration and Religious Preference

There is a negative correlation between atheism and incarceration, NOT a positive one. America, for example, has among the highest rates of religiosity and incarceration in the industrialized world world.

As to the OP, if religion is so necessary for morality, then why is it that secularism isn’t strongly correlated with social ills, including but not limited to incarceration? Actually, the opposite may be true.

This following study might be an oversimplification, but shows slight negative correlations between religiosity of countries and bad behavior (indicators = homicide, abortion, suicide, STD incidence, teen pregnancy). America, the most religious country in the study, always did poorly and often did the worst of the nations listed.

Journal of Religion and Society

Atheistic countries like Sweden, Japan, France and Norway tend to do better than theistic countries like America and Portugal. I'm not going to call that proof that religion is bad, but it does illustrate that religious belief is not a significant factor in improving the moral health of a nation.

For my undergrad sociology thesis I analyzed data in the General Social Survey (random American adults outside of institutions) to find that religious integration (e.g. church attendance) improved happiness, but that religious belief has no effect (slightly negative for women, very slightly positive for men) when you control for religious integration. Yet a peer of mine used the same data to show a robust relationship between religious integration and philanthropy. I believe the following link offers a good explanation for all I have discussed:

The latest research on the correlation between religion and niceness. - By Paul Bloom - Slate Magazine

The positive effect of religion in the real world, to my mind, is tied to this last, community component—rather than a belief in constant surveillance by a higher power. Humans are social beings, and we are happier, and better, when connected to others. This is the moral of sociologist Robert Putnam's work on American life. In Bowling Alone, he argues that voluntary association with other people is integral to a fulfilled and productive existence—it makes us "smarter, healthier, safer, richer, and better able to govern a just and stable democracy."

The Danes and the Swedes, despite being godless, have strong communities. In fact, Zuckerman points out that most Danes and Swedes identify themselves as Christian. They get married in church, have their babies baptized, give some of their income to the church, and feel attached to their religious community—they just don't believe in God. Zuckerman suggests that Scandinavian Christians are a lot like American Jews, who are also highly secularized in belief and practice, have strong communal feelings, and tend to be well-behaved.

American atheists, by contrast, are often left out of community life. The studies that Brooks cites in Gross National Happiness, which find that the religious are happier and more generous then the secular, do not define religious and secular in terms of belief. They define it in terms of religious attendance. It is not hard to see how being left out of one of the dominant modes of American togetherness can have a corrosive effect on morality. As P.Z. Myers, the biologist and prominent atheist, puts it, "cattered individuals who are excluded from communities do not receive the benefits of community, nor do they feel willing to contribute to the communities that exclude them."

The sorry state of American atheists, then, may have nothing to do with their lack of religious belief. It may instead be the result of their outsider status within a highly religious country where many of their fellow citizens, including very vocal ones like Schlessinger, find them immoral and unpatriotic. Religion may not poison everything, but it deserves part of the blame for this one.

 

[Shogun]

Look at how you talk, you cuss more than anyone in here and why? You lack morals and values, mommy and daddy didn't have much of a brain when it came to teaching you, did they? Actually, people who are *NOT* religious are actually the worst ones in society, if they thought about God and Jesus, they would think twice before they did something wrong or something stupid.

riiiight.. because christians NEVER do anything wrong and/or stupid...





Sorry, dude. once again you fucking fail.

hell, i'll even let your mention of my family slide given how fubar'ed this thread is.

Who exactly has FUBAR'd the thread?

Please quote a Christian on this board that has posted Christians never do anything wrong and/or stupid. I'd like an explanation from that person myself since it is in direct contradiction to a basic tenet of Christianity. The evidence first though, please.

Have you been reading his posts? I'll quote him if you want to see it.


and, regarding my input to this thread... he asked a question and I gave an answer. It may not be the answer that dogma junkies want to hear but it's the truth. You know goddamn well what 90% of his posts and threads are all about. If, after that, you think "well, shit, I need to be just like THAT guy!" then so be it. The way things are trending that kind of reaction to hist testimony is yielding a hemorrhaging of dogma junkies.

Again, I can post evidence if you'd like to see it.

 

[Shogun]

riiiight.. Because christians never do anything wrong and/or stupid...





Sorry, dude. Once again you fucking fail.

Hell, i'll even let your mention of my family slide given how fubar'ed this thread is.

real christians, not pretenders, are truly religious because real christians don't repeatedly do something they know to be wrong, they haven't really accepted the word of god if they did. You can't go one day in your entire life without cussing, that shows a lack of discipline as well.

that's bs. "real" christians strive to be christ-like, knowing they will fail.

You can't go a day without passing judgment on some group or person. Want to refresh my memory on that in regard to what christ says? Or is it you that needs the refresher?

see?