Why are conservatives losing?!?!?

[PredFan]

Irrelevant.

The issues are now irrelevant?

The fact that conservatives have LOST, for example, pretty much across the board on gay rights,

that's irrelevant?

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The issues are now irrelevant?

The fact that conservatives have LOST, for example, pretty much across the board on gay rights,

that's irrelevant?

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

The GOP did. Conservatives clearly didn't and haven't gotten anywhere in either legislative body. Where are the great Conservative initiatives? Most are dead on the vine and have been for a while.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The issues are now irrelevant?

The fact that conservatives have LOST, for example, pretty much across the board on gay rights,

that's irrelevant?

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

 

[bendog]

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Everyone knows latinos are not into gay marriage. (-:

 

[Boss]

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

The GOP is not the Conservative party. They are the Republican party and republicanism is very much in line with conservative philosophy. Therefore, most Conservatives tend to gravitate toward the GOP but there have been many prominent Conservative Democrats as well as Liberal Republicans.

Again, Conservatism is a philosophy and not an ideology like Progressivism. Various ideologies call themselves Conservative because they aren't radical extremists. Their philosophy is Conservative. Within the philosophy, there are numerous ideologies and some of them conflict with each other. Social conservatives and neo-conservatives tend to not be fiscal conservatives or constitutional conservatives. Libertarian conservatives are nothing like social conservatives. All are conservative as opposed to radical philosophies but completely different ideologies.

It has been the success of the progressive left to morph "Conservatism" into a sort of "Frankenstein Ideology" which encompasses all undesirable attributes of ideology found under the conservative banner. What true Conservatives have lacked since Ronald Reagan is a voice to unify Conservatives under a central philosophy. It's an increasingly difficult task because we now must fight this insipid caricature created by the left and overcome that. William F. Buckley saw this coming years ago.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What true Conservatives have lacked since Ronald Reagan is a voice to unify Conservatives under a central philosophy.

Believe it or not, I agree.

 

[PredFan]

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

The GOP did. Conservatives clearly didn't and haven't gotten anywhere in either legislative body. Where are the great Conservative initiatives? Most are dead on the vine and have been for a while.

Define conservative. It seems you use it when it's convenient for you.

 

[PredFan]

The OP stated that we were losing. He is wrong and I proved that. You are trying to make the argument into something else.

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage, and there aren't any conservatives in the campaign.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage.

lolol, like I said awhile back,

eventually the Right will claim THEY legalized same sex marriage.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage, and there aren't any conservatives in the campaign.

Entertain us with some credible evidence to support that claim.

 

[PredFan]

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage.

lolol, like I said awhile back,

eventually the Right will claim THEY legalized same sex marriage.

Well you are wrong as usual. I didn't say that did I retard?

 

[PredFan]

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage, and there aren't any conservatives in the campaign.

Entertain us with some credible evidence to support that claim.

Neither Trump or Hillary are conservative.

 

[bendog]

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage.

lolol, like I said awhile back,

eventually the Right will claim THEY legalized same sex marriage.

He is right about one thing at least, there's no definition of conservative. Do Trumpbots consider him to be a conservative. They and TPfolks say Will is a Rino, when he was to the right of Reagan on Russia, and I assume still longing for a balanced budget. Of course some may think conservative means isolationist.

Bottom line, the Gop is not putting out a product most want to buy. People will say "we control congress" but House dems actually got more voters. And the Senate largely shifts depending upon which party holds the WH and how many in each party are running in a given year .... and of course, most voters live in blue states.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage.

lolol, like I said awhile back,

eventually the Right will claim THEY legalized same sex marriage.

Well you are wrong as usual. I didn't say that did I retard?

You just lied by claiming that conservatives support same sex marriage. Let's see evidence of that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage, and there aren't any conservatives in the campaign.

Entertain us with some credible evidence to support that claim.

Neither Trump or Hillary are conservative.

Pence certainly is and you won't find him in the pro-gay marriage crowd.

 

[PredFan]

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage.

lolol, like I said awhile back,

eventually the Right will claim THEY legalized same sex marriage.

Well you are wrong as usual. I didn't say that did I retard?

You just lied by claiming that conservatives support same sex marriage. Let's see evidence of that.

A conservative says: "The government has no business being involved in marriage at all." A RINO is a statist who believes that the government should dictate the lives of others. They are the same as democrats they want the government to control people they don't agree with. That isn't conservative. I am a conservative and I want the government out of marriage and many many other things. I don't care who you marry. If that isn't plain enough for you then I can't help you to understand.

 

[PredFan]

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

And got nothing out of it. Progress continues to leave conservatives behind.

You people aren't even arguing against same sex marriage in the campaign, in case you haven't noticed.

Conservatives aren't against same sex marriage, and there aren't any conservatives in the campaign.

Entertain us with some credible evidence to support that claim.

Neither Trump or Hillary are conservative.

Pence certainly is and you won't find him in the pro-gay marriage crowd.

No, he's not. Just because it fits what you want to believe doesn't make it true.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The OP said Conservatives are losing, not the GOP. And that's actually the case. The Conservative movement inside the GOP doesn't have a lot of power and hasn't for a while. McCain, Romney, and Trump all had Conservative backed opponents that the easily stomped in the primary. This year we're seeing a lot of Conservatives being targeted by, and losing to, establishment Republicans in the primaries. We've seen that happen in a fair number of high profile races in the last few elections too.

There are some folks running as Conservatives and winning, but once elected, they do nothing to advance Conservative issues. And on the 4 issues listed, Conservatives have pretty much lost the public debate as measured by public opinion polls.

The question on the table is WHY? I'd hazard the theory that too many Conservatives have listened to or pandered to religious Conservatives on some issues, or special interest lobbies on the others. They've stopped listening to and engaging the common voters and they've lost the debate because of it.

Lol, now that's what I call moving the goalposts!

The Thread title is: "Why are Conservatives losing?" No goalpost moving, that's the thread title and the premise. And that's a 100% valid question. Conservatives aren't winning. They're not advancing their policies. They aren't winning the public discourse on the issues. They aren't even advancing their candidates all that successfully in elections. So why not? Isn't the GOP supposed to be the Conservative party? If it is, then something has clearly gone awry in the party.

We gained the house and the senate dumbass.

The GOP did. Conservatives clearly didn't and haven't gotten anywhere in either legislative body. Where are the great Conservative initiatives? Most are dead on the vine and have been for a while.

Define conservative. It seems you use it when it's convenient for you.

With the exception of Social Conservatives, I see Conservatives being in favor of a reduced as possible role domestically for government but an active foreign policy to protect American interests unilaterally. Social Cons are a variant in that they want mostly the same things but also want a government role in maintaining culture or safeguarding certain cultural issues. Neoconservatives are also similar but emphasize a lot more activity on the foreign policy side and much more involvement with the international community.

 

[GHook93]

Hey clueless hack!

Who has control of the House and Senate? Who has the most state governors?

How are you that stupid and still able to use technology to broadcast your stupidity?

Nice straw man, but you didn't refute a word I said. We are about to lose the SCOTUS for the next few decades. Without the Presidency there is very little good a GOP congress can do.

Yes we hold the senate and house for now, but look at the trend. We only see red states turning purple and blue. In the 80s CA was red, now it is solid blue. Not to long ago PA, NM, MI and BA were swing states now they are all pretty reliable blue states. I can't name one previous blue state that leans red now.

Blast me all you want but these 4 issues (not illegal immigration) is losing our movements ground.

 

[GHook93]

They still have a strong base, but they can't compete in the long run.

It comes down to 4 issues that turn the middle on them:
(1) Healthcare: I get it single payer and government run health insurance we 'hear' is a disaster, yet European countries will not do away with it any time soon. However you never get a plan other than status quo. I hear the sell across state lines bullshit, but those insurers have to follow state law and I guarantee this added competition wouldn't change a thing, but it is a great talking point. Second you hear health savings accounts. Which are already hear and while good aren't even close to the answer. Obaminationcare is bad but it at least go rid of the insurer practice of pre-existing condition riders (meaning once your sick no one would insure you), drop you after you get sick and skyrocket rates after you get sick. Obaminationcare is bad, but status quo was horrible also. Conservatives lose many middle class voters on this issue, because they never present any real plan.

(2) Abortion: You used to be able to hold the stance, ban on later term abortions and no abortions after 1 trimester except for rape, incest or mother's life is in danger. Now during the primaries the only acceptable stance is "no abortion, no exceptions. Not for rape or incest victims, not if the fetus has birth defects, not for teenagers and some won't even allow if the mother's life is in danger. Sorry but this turns off many independents and women.

(3) Higher Education: Most jobs require a college degree. The few that don't are lower paying and in shrinking industries, such as manufacturing. The fact of the matter is higher education cost upwards of $120k. Young people start their lives in a boatload of debt. These are voters who hear one side at least talk about trying to forgive debt, help pay for it and lower rates.

Then you have the GOP who complain about what the colleges charge and basically stop there. They wouldn't pass the bill to lower interest rates. While there are good arguments why they did that. Voters with student loan debt only saw that republicans voted against saving students money.

As Republicans continue to lose on this issue, they continue to create New Democrats.

(4) Gun control: Every mass shooting you hear, don't blame guns blame the perpetrators. True on many cases, but in reality many in the middle want a balance between gun ownership and safety.

Until Republicans start finding a way to solve these issues for the masses they won't compete I the swing states and further red states will turn blue like VA, CO and NV. Right now the only way for Trump to win is if he turns 1 of 2 left leaning state (PA or MI) and wins FL or OH.

Blast me if you want, but these are the 4 issues that the GOP needs to get serious about if they don't want to go the way of the Whigs.

Surprisingly good thread coming from you.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Thank you sir