Who's Teaching What in Schools?

[Annie]

Bill Clinton is to blame for teens having oral sex? most of these kids were in diapers when the man was in office!

I never blamed Clinton, but the media. At that time many kids read at least the front page of the newspapers. Maybe today it's better, the papers have become so bad, no one subscribes anymore. Yep, during the Clinton years they left Woodward and Bernstein and turned to 'gotcha news.' It's worked out well, hasn't it?

 

[Madeline]

Bill Clinton is to blame for teens having oral sex? most of these kids were in diapers when the man was in office!

I never blamed Clinton, but the media. At that time many kids read at least the front page of the newspapers. Maybe today it's better, the papers have become so bad, no one subscribes anymore. Yep, during the Clinton years they left Woodward and Bernstein and turned to 'gotcha news.' It's worked out well, hasn't it?

How can you blame the news media? If Nixon had engineered the Watergate break in to get a BJ, you think that would not have been reported?

I'm amazed at this notion that the blame lies no with the evil-doer, but with those who make his deeds public. Just look at this post, for God's sake. We had discussions about BJs in every office and every school in the country thankies to him.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Morality cannot be enforced by ignorance.

This is a FANTASTIC point.

I don't think teaching about the sex act and reproduction leads to early sex

That much we know to be true. Every study that has ever looked into that topic has found decreased or no change in sexual activity after sex ed is started, and an increase in safe sex practices.

I don't think of children as a punishment or a burden.

To what socioeconomic class do you belong? What culture? Better yet: do you think your beliefs should dictate how others view the topic or what can be done about it?

 

[FA_Q2]

I personally do not believe in sex ed for my children as I will cover that myself but see the need for it to be taught in schools. The classes need to be there and children need a basic understanding of sex and its consequences/responsibilities. That said, I am naturally suspicious of any organization that derives it money from things like abortions giving a sex ed class. That is something that an impartial educator whose only loyalty lies in educating the children. Anyone else that may pose an agenda does not belong in the classroom. Why would they use planned parenthood in the first place. There is nothing that the children need to know that an educated teacher cannot supply them with. That is what they are there for anyway, is it not?

Why would planned parenthood be there in the first place? Because they are a lot more knowledgeable on the subject than you are. Do you feel you can accurately give the strengths and weaknesses of each type of contraception? Signs and symptoms of each STD? Oil or water based lubricants? If you are getting your information from the internet, what makes you think you are better qualified than your kids? This is a topic that requires some semblance of experience.

Yes, I feel I can give a sex ed class to my own children FAR better than PP and better than any teacher. This has much less to do with knowledge than the fact that an open conversation with your parents on sex and its effects is worth far more than the information itself. That openness and relationship foster an environment around the subject that you will need as a parent if you wish to influence your children's choices in life. I am not saying the information is not extremely important or that I do not have the information to present but the 2 way relationship is even more important. Planned parenthood is not going to be there when these situations occur and you will. Sex ed should never be on its own anyway. It is more of a supplement to what you and your child should be talking about.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I agree that the ideal situation would be for parents to speak to their children, but the large majority of parents do not have all the facts on the topic. Again I ask: do you think you do? Can you answer all the questions I posed in my previous post?

Standardized knowledge is necessary. You state "open conversation with your parents on sex and its effects is worth far more than the information itself." I disagree. If the information is wrong, misleading, or deficient in key concepts, it doesn't matter how well you think you are bonding with your children. Once again, I can't help but point out that children who only learn abstinence as their sex ed, be it from parents or schools, are far worse off.

That's not to discourage open conversation with your children, but it does mean that the correct things need to be said, and that is NOT something that Americans have shown themselves to be proficient in.

 

[FA_Q2]

I agree that the ideal situation would be for parents to speak to their children, but the large majority of parents do not have all the facts on the topic. Again I ask: do you think you do? Can you answer all the questions I posed in my previous post?

For the most part, yes. Much of those questions you asked are irrelevant though. I do not need to know the advantages of one contraceptive over another for example. That is a matter that needs to be discussed with a doctor that would be prescribing it though the basics like condom use I can convey.

Standardized knowledge is necessary. You state "open conversation with your parents on sex and its effects is worth far more than the information itself." I disagree. If the information is wrong, misleading, or deficient in key concepts, it doesn't matter how well you think you are bonding with your children.

I never said the knowledge was not necessary or unimportant, just that the open conversation between you and your child is even more important. It is important to have the info but it is VERY important for you to be involved. If you think your child is going to make good decisions because of some instructions that they got from a stranger for one afternoon then you are sadly mistaken. As a parent, you need to be deeply involved in order to guide your child. If you are asking the school system to do your job for you and not instilling the wisdom and morals that you hold dear then your children are likely to be a basket case. This one aria is no exception. You need to be there for your children when it comes to sexual morality and practices just as much as anywhere else and of you are not then those values and good decisions are not likely to happen.

Once again, I can't help but point out that children who only learn abstinence as their sex ed, be it from parents or schools, are far worse off. That's not to discourage open conversation with your children, but it does mean that the correct things need to be said, and that is NOT something that Americans have shown themselves to be proficient in.

Where have I said that I do not want sex ed taught in schools? Where have I opposed that practice? I directly stated that I wanted it taught. Abstinence is not sex ed and no one here has even whispered that it should be taught. We all know that is moronic and repeating it like that is the only opposition to the OP is rather mundane. I stated that an EDUCATOR, not a representative from a politically active organization, one that sells a service no less. This is not simply because this is planned parenthood. I am not opposed to the organization itself though I disagree with some of it activism. Nor is this the only instance that I would not want a politically active organization in our schools. I do not want ANY political entity there.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I agree that the ideal situation would be for parents to speak to their children, but the large majority of parents do not have all the facts on the topic. Again I ask: do you think you do? Can you answer all the questions I posed in my previous post?

For the most part, yes. Much of those questions you asked are irrelevant though. I do not need to know the advantages of one contraceptive over another for example. That is a matter that needs to be discussed with a doctor that would be prescribing it though the basics like condom use I can convey.

And that's certainly a good thing, but don't you think teenagers should receive more information than just a single doctor's appointment? Here's a better question: what percentage of teenagers do you think go visit a doctor just before they expect to become sexually active to discuss their options? If they don't know what options are even available, why would they go seek them? Teenagers can learn condom use by reading the box. Society needs more than the basics, though getting the information again from parents is always a good thing.

Standardized knowledge is necessary. You state "open conversation with your parents on sex and its effects is worth far more than the information itself." I disagree. If the information is wrong, misleading, or deficient in key concepts, it doesn't matter how well you think you are bonding with your children.

I never said the knowledge was not necessary or unimportant, just that the open conversation between you and your child is even more important. It is important to have the info but it is VERY important for you to be involved. If you think your child is going to make good decisions because of some instructions that they got from a stranger for one afternoon then you are sadly mistaken. As a parent, you need to be deeply involved in order to guide your child. If you are asking the school system to do your job for you and not instilling the wisdom and morals that you hold dear then your children are likely to be a basket case. This one aria is no exception. You need to be there for your children when it comes to sexual morality and practices just as much as anywhere else and of you are not then those values and good decisions are not likely to happen.

Deeply involved? In their sex? I can guarantee that when your kids are having sex, you are NOT involved. Parents can certainly help in safe sex goal, and I'm glad to see you are so invested in the well being of your children, but such is not an asset afforded to most children. To that end, they need to hear it from as many people as possible, be it strangers or otherwise. Time and time again it has been shown that education is what reduces unwanted outcomes. The more, the better. Parents rock, if they invest themselves appropriately.

Once again, I can't help but point out that children who only learn abstinence as their sex ed, be it from parents or schools, are far worse off. That's not to discourage open conversation with your children, but it does mean that the correct things need to be said, and that is NOT something that Americans have shown themselves to be proficient in.

Where have I said that I do not want sex ed taught in schools? Where have I opposed that practice? I directly stated that I wanted it taught. Abstinence is not sex ed and no one here has even whispered that it should be taught. We all know that is moronic and repeating it like that is the only opposition to the OP is rather mundane. I stated that an EDUCATOR, not a representative from a politically active organization, one that sells a service no less. This is not simply because this is planned parenthood. I am not opposed to the organization itself though I disagree with some of it activism. Nor is this the only instance that I would not want a politically active organization in our schools. I do not want ANY political entity there.

I was not inferring you have promoted abstinence only education. The point is that we know that parents left to their own devices have three outcomes: providing full factual information on the topic, providing a mix of fact and error, and providing nothing. If we leave things for parents to do on their own, we will get a lot of the middle category, which is abstinence teaching, and a TON of the last category.

This all brings me back to my underlying point: good parenting is awesome, but standardized information is an absolute necessity.

 

[Madeline]

What may be overlooked is the value to society at large, and to the parents of kids who know their ABC's of sex, to be surrounded by other kids who do as well and not by young'uns who believe -- as many did when I was young -- that you can't get pregnant on your first time, or that douching with coke is an effective form of birth control.

 

[mdn2000]

Whats so bad about planned parenthood?

The right demonizes PP because in many communities, it is the sole abortion provider, High Gravity.

Is planned parenthood putting guns to womens heads and forcing them to abort these babies? if these women didn't abort these babies they would end up on welfare, food stamps, cash aid, section 8 etc and people would still complain. Let these women do what they need to do and everyone keep the fuck out of it, I don't see anyone here lining up to adopt any black orphans.

Women? We are not talking about women, we are talking about children and teenagers.

You do not see people lining up to adopt Black Orphans. Then you may be a bigot. Serious, I told my wife we would adopt if she wanted a daughter, I am pretty far right neo con conservative, you think color came to mind, not at all, My wife is half Portugese/African, my kids are thus 1/4 African, not African-American, but African-Brazilian, if you do not see me lining up for a black daughter that is only because your a bit ignorant or a bigot.

Where the shoe that fits best.

 

[mdn2000]

Sex education, it should be Biology that is taught. Sex, that takes about two minutes, a man is designed to get woman pregnant. You do that with the penis ejaculating in the vagina. It feels real good.

The whores are for everyone, you do not marry the whores or sluts.

I will have my kids taught before the first grade, I will tell them everything they need to know, like the anal canal was designed for excreting human waste, nothing more. That covers homosexuality.

As far as pregnancy goes, I will teach that there is no greater wonder or pleasure in the world than having children. I will teach them its a mystery and gift to cherish. I will teach them that abortion is the most un-natural, harmful things a woman can do to herself. I will teach them its murder to abort babies and that they should know how the woman feels about this before they have a relationship with any woman.

I will teach them the horror of Abortion and the life long traumatic effects the woman live with. I will teach them that many woman suffer physically.

Yes, sex education, its how we reproduce, its not that complicated. I will have to teach the kids to make sure they are clean and showered and not having sex in dirty cars or other places that are not clean.

Most important though, through my love and attention I give my kids, they will realize that it really is great to have a family. If my kids get a woman pregnant in her teens, I will have taught them that the greatest part of thier life has just begun.

I guess I will have to have this talk with any girls my kids bring home. It would be pretty dumb to trust parents or teachers with this critical responsibility.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

It would be pretty dumb to trust parents or teachers with this critical responsibility.

Case in point.......

 

[FA_Q2]

It would be pretty dumb to trust parents or teachers with this critical responsibility.

Case in point.......

I get it, I do and I think that we see things somewhat similarly on the issue. You keep arguing that it is not enough to trust that parents will take care of this and I have agreed with that several times. You stated:

This all brings me back to my underlying point: good parenting is awesome, but standardized information is an absolute necessity.

And I have agreed with that. The only difference is that I place more importance on the parenting aspect. Hell, we have major problems now and the information IS standardized and taught in schools but the parenting is what is missing and that is where our problems are coming from. Hands down, schools will NEVER be sufficient enough to address this issue and, quite frankly, parenting will never get there as long as we have this insane view on sex that Americans seem to have. My main point to the OP was, and remains, that I believe planned parenthood has absolutely zero reason to be the educator here. That is what we have teachers for.

 

[Madeline]

Mdn wrote in part:

Where the shoe that fits best.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

It would be pretty dumb to trust parents or teachers with this critical responsibility.

Case in point.......

I get it, I do and I think that we see things somewhat similarly on the issue. You keep arguing that it is not enough to trust that parents will take care of this and I have agreed with that several times. You stated:

This all brings me back to my underlying point: good parenting is awesome, but standardized information is an absolute necessity.

And I have agreed with that. The only difference is that I place more importance on the parenting aspect. Hell, we have major problems now and the information IS standardized and taught in schools but the parenting is what is missing and that is where our problems are coming from. Hands down, schools will NEVER be sufficient enough to address this issue and, quite frankly, parenting will never get there as long as we have this insane view on sex that Americans seem to have. My main point to the OP was, and remains, that I believe planned parenthood has absolutely zero reason to be the educator here. That is what we have teachers for.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. If they are experts on the topic, and ina better position to be teaching and answering questions, why wouldn't we want them in that position?

 

[Madeline]

Case in point.......

I get it, I do and I think that we see things somewhat similarly on the issue. You keep arguing that it is not enough to trust that parents will take care of this and I have agreed with that several times. You stated:

This all brings me back to my underlying point: good parenting is awesome, but standardized information is an absolute necessity.

And I have agreed with that. The only difference is that I place more importance on the parenting aspect. Hell, we have major problems now and the information IS standardized and taught in schools but the parenting is what is missing and that is where our problems are coming from. Hands down, schools will NEVER be sufficient enough to address this issue and, quite frankly, parenting will never get there as long as we have this insane view on sex that Americans seem to have. My main point to the OP was, and remains, that I believe planned parenthood has absolutely zero reason to be the educator here. That is what we have teachers for.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. If they are experts on the topic, and ina better position to be teaching and answering questions, why wouldn't we want them in that position?

I think you two agree to such a degree, your differences are miniscule, STH. I could live with either of your POVs.

Are we done posting Raptor Jesus images? I ♥ them, LOL.

 

[FA_Q2]

Case in point.......

I get it, I do and I think that we see things somewhat similarly on the issue. You keep arguing that it is not enough to trust that parents will take care of this and I have agreed with that several times. You stated:

This all brings me back to my underlying point: good parenting is awesome, but standardized information is an absolute necessity.

And I have agreed with that. The only difference is that I place more importance on the parenting aspect. Hell, we have major problems now and the information IS standardized and taught in schools but the parenting is what is missing and that is where our problems are coming from. Hands down, schools will NEVER be sufficient enough to address this issue and, quite frankly, parenting will never get there as long as we have this insane view on sex that Americans seem to have. My main point to the OP was, and remains, that I believe planned parenthood has absolutely zero reason to be the educator here. That is what we have teachers for.

I agree with everything except the last sentence. If they are experts on the topic, and ina better position to be teaching and answering questions, why wouldn't we want them in that position?

Because they represent a politically active organization. No matter what you perceive their actions are, good or bad, they are quite politically active.

 

[blu]

Teen pregnancy increased astronomically with the advent of "sex education".

I think it's safe to say it does nothing whatsoever to reduce the incidence.

fallacy garbage from the board idiot

 

[blu]

Are you saying that teens should not be taught sex ed in school?

Is not teen pregnancy a problem? Better to find out the real story about it rather than from rumors and such by classmates.

Parents by and large to a poor job of sex education.
Mine were so into religion they never would even say the word "sex". Pretty hjumerous considering they had 6 children don't you think?

nah you just have to wait for the holy spirit to intervene and teach peple that there bodies are icky but then suddenly become okay once they get married

 

[blu]

Teen pregnancy increased astronomically with the advent of "sex education".

I think it's safe to say it does nothing whatsoever to reduce the incidence.

That is completely false. Even study that has investigated abstinence-only education has found higher teen pregnancy rates, higher transmission of STDs, and increased abortions. This is factual reproducible evidence. No, your unsupported hunch backed by the credentials of having possibly spawned a child yourself does not refute every verified scientific study on the topic.

Planned Parenthood is one of the most knowledgeable organizations with regards to sexual education. If they were there just promoting abortion, I think it's safe to say that the message would be strongly inappropriate, but I have yet to hear any evidence of this being the case. They were teaching sex-ed, just as any middle-aged manly female gym teacher would have done, but they were in a much better position to answer questions.

Teenagers are teenagers. If you are so foolish to believe they can't figure out what SEX is despite raging hormones and modern media, you are denying their biology and intelligence.

It sounds to me the issue isn't that kids were learning about safe sex topics, but that the name "Planned Parenthood" pissed off a lot of unthinking soccer moms.

don't feed trolls

 

[Douger]

You guys are tripping in the past. Any 10 year old who has been on the Internet unsupervised likely knows more about sex ( and weird sex) than most of you .
In the sixties little boys browsed the underwear section of the Sears catalog.
Now they browse Ass to Mouth, 13.5, The Final Snowball.