Who "won" the debt crisis - Republicans or Reid/Obama?

[Lovebears65]

The tax payer lost again as we always do.

 

[txlonghorn]

neither...China won

 

[LordBrownTrout]

neither...China won

True. China can dictate whatever terms it wants now. They don't even have to negotiate with us at this point. I can hear them laughing.

 

[txlonghorn]

neither...China won

True. China can dictate whatever terms it wants now. They don't even have to negotiate with us at this point. I can hear them laughing.

Yup...I hope our government is proud of themselves.

 

[spectrumc01]

Does anyone know how this would have effected corprate America if we defaulted? And what did they want congress to do?

 

[Avorysuds]

Why are people obsessed with this question? Are people that fat and lazy in society that the "fix" means nothing over who scored the most political points for some make believe team?

Why can't we default on the debt ceiling? = Because then the credit rating gets downgraded...

What happens if we pass a shit bill, like is happening? = The credit rating gets downgraded...

Whoever supports default by not raising the debt ceiling or voting/singing a crap bill are the problem, so far that's most the Reps, near all the Dems if not all of them and Obama... The only people wanting to not default now, or just after the budget goes live is the Tea Party, so here’s a novel idea, let’s all blame the Tea Party!

 

[spectrumc01]

Why does it have to mean default anyway. When it comes to my house the axe falls quickly and swiftly. Why not here. Eliminate whole redundant departments like the ATF, DEA, EPA (green peace will do it for free and can't be bought off), and a bunch of others. Some times you need to eliminate the fun stuff from the buget, for them it should mean lay offs and salary freezes. It should mean they start paying for their medical insurance or get something cheaper. We have made gods of these people to lord over us. Time to take back control.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I knew the details were ugly when I heard Neil Cavuto say "This thing is so bad that I hate to say it, but as it looks it would have been better to give the President temporary powers to spend beyond the debt ceiling while we worked on a better deal...this thing is a disaster."

 

[mudwhistle]

I could care less who won unless it was the taxpayer.

The politicians can go get stuffed.

This Kabuki dance didn't turn out the way Obama had hoped and the GOP looks like they're in cahoots with the left.

Both lost.

 

[Jackson]

No one won. Our Congress could not step up to the plate and make real cuts at a time when the country understood and needed it. Outside sources (rating agencies ) said we needed 4 T in cuts to avoid a rating degrading and we couldn't do it. Another smoke and mirrors.

The only Congressmen with integrity were the Tea Party People.

 

[Cuyo]

Give your reasons BRIEFLY

I agree with most here actually. Nobody "won." But I think Dems gave up more ground than Repubs in the compromise.

 

[JWBooth]

Spending/borrowing continues, and cuts are promised but are nebulous at best. Much like the cuts built into the 1980's tax increase deal.

 

[editec]

The very fact that we think in terms of who won or lost suggest that we all lost

Treasuries rose, pushing the yields on 10-year notes to the lowest level since November, as an index showed U.S. manufacturing expanded in July at the slowest pace in two years.

Yields on benchmark 10-year notes fell five basis points, or 0.05 percentage point, to 2.74 percent at 5:02 p.m. in New York , according to Bloomberg Bond Trader prices. The 3.125 percent securities due in May 2021 gained 14/32, or $4.38 per $1,000 face amount, to 103 8/32.

U.S. stocks slumped. The Standard and Poor’s 500 lost 0.4 percent to 1,286.94 at 4:19 p.m. in New York after climbing as much as 1.2 percent earlier. The Dow Jones Industrial Average retreated 10.75 points, or 0.1 percent, to 12,132.49 today after rising 139 points.

source
Looks to me like the MARKET agrees.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

As one commentator said last night - taxpayers should be very wary when any politician says "this is a bi-partisan bill" - in reality it is a bill no one likes and no one wants to claim it, therefore they call it bi-partisan so both sides can't point fingers in the opposite direction when the public figures it out.

 

[whitehall]

Listen to the whining in the senate. Reid had no plan and now the senate must vote for a Tea Party plan. Who won? Boehner.

 

[Meister]

Listen to the whining in the senate. Reid had no plan and now the senate must vote for a Tea Party plan. Who won? Boehner.

This wasn't the Tea Party plan.

 

[Annie]

from a purely political stand point? The right, no question.
From a practical standpoint? The Left.

BUT, one more time;

this fight has been going on since the first agrarian reforms created the show down between optimate and populare who battled for supremacy in Rome and Italy 2000 years ago........and it will go on.

The is no 'victory', the pendulum swings and the only truth to survive each and every battle along alike lines is; the middle loses almost every time and its most always for the same reason, overreach by both parties in turn.

Pretty much my sentiments. The left will get their tax increases, however the conversation has changed to an unimaginable level from a year ago. The liberals are forced into paying attention to spending, defending it against those that have supported them in the past.

While the conversations on 'balance' has been ongoing through the late 19th and 20th C's, seems the socialist model isn't doing so well and America was generally behind in that play in the first place. Perhaps the tea parties got the ball rolling, but it may not be the full story:

The real story of the US debt deal is not the triumph of the Tea Party but the death of the Socialist Left – Telegraph Blogs

The real story of the US debt deal is not the triumph of the Tea Party but the death of the Socialist Left

By Toby Young US politics Last updated: August 2nd, 2011

...

Most pundits are crediting this U-turn to the political muscle of the Tea Party and it’s true that President Obama would never have agreed to this deal if the Tea Party Republicans in the House of Representatives hadn’t engaged in the brinkmanship of the past few weeks. But to focus on the Tea Party is to ignore the tectonic political shift that’s taken place, not just in America but across Europe. The majority of citizens in nearly all the world’s most developed countries simply aren’t prepared to tolerate the degree of borrowing required to sustain generous welfare programmes any longer.

As I pointed out in a blog post last May, tax-and-spend Left-wing parties have fared poorly in election after election over the past two years:

Labour was punished by the British electorate last year, polling its lowest share of the vote since 1983, but not as severely as the Social Democrats were by the Swedes, polling their lowest share of the vote since universal suffrage was introduced in 1921…

The same picture emerges wherever you look. In the European election in June, 2009, the Left took a hammering. In Germany, the Social Democrats polled just 20 per cent of the vote, their worst result since the Second World War. In France, the Socialist Party only mustered 16.5 per cent, its lowest share of the vote in a European election since 1994. In Italy, the Democrats polled 26.1 per cent, seven percentage points less than they received at the last Italian election. As David Miliband pointed out in a recent lecture: “Left parties are losing elections more comprehensively than ever before. They are fragmenting at just the time the Right is uniting. I don’t believe this is some kind of accident.”​

For believers in redistributive taxation and egalitarian social programmes like David Miliband, Obama was the last great hope. Here was a centre left politician capable of building the kind of electoral coalition that underpinned the massive expansions of state power in Britain and America, from Attlee’s post-war Labour Government to Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society. That is, a coalition of the white working class, minorities and middle class liberals. Yet in spite of sweeping to power in 2008 and ensuring the Democrats won in both the House and the Senate, Obama has proved unable to sustain that coalition. Last night’s debt deal represents the moment when he acknowledged that trying to maintain the levels of public spending required to fund ambitious welfare programmes is political suicide. Which is why the deal has been greated with cries of impotent rage by the British Left.

In both Britain and America, the Left has been reduced to hoping that cutting public spending on this scale will snuff out economic growth and plunge our respective economies back into recession. Not only will the Coalition be turfed out as a consequence, but if Obama can somehow blame the Tea Party for the “double dip” he might be able to persuade the people to grant him four more years. What the Left hasn’t grasped – and what Obama has – is that for the foreseeable future no political candidate or party will be able to increase public spending and win re-election. Socialist welfare programmes have become politically toxic. A sea change has taken place within the West’s most developed countries and last night’s debt deal is a reflection of that.

 

[Bill Angel]

The Chinese won. If we are downgraded, they will make more interest on the bonds that they will be shortly buying.

If the USA Government debt is downgraded, then the market value of the debt that the Chinese (and others) already hold will decline in value. The Chinese currently hold 1.1 Trillion Dollars in US Gov Debt. (Japan comes in second with approximately 1 Trillion Dollars in US Gov Debt.)

 

[Patrick2]

Listen to the whining in the senate. Reid had no plan and now the senate must vote for a Tea Party plan. Who won? Boehner.

This wasn't the Tea Party plan.

This whole issue would never have been raised except for the Tea Party. The RINOs and leftwingers would have just marched ahead in lockstep, creating ever more debt. Now even the stupidest voter must have even a fuzzy concept that the debt just can't increase without limit. One hopes that there are many voters who also understand the stupidity of raising taxes in a bad recession.