Who was the First Republican?

[JamesInFlorida]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans, stand for exactly the same thing.

James: Unless you're black, Indian, don't own land or a Woman. Other than that-you're spot on!

Brutus: Actually, Jefferson did more to get the freedom ball rolling than any other human being in history. HIs original draft of the constitution was mmore about slavery than taxes. He is perhaps the world's greatest hero. In a very real sense he just freed 2 billion from communism in China, USSR, and India


James: Oh and he was so for small government-he would never double the size of the country (something which no other president has done), with one stroke of a pen. Yeah that's small government all right! (I know he was for small government-just saying he didn't always take his won advice very well).

Brutus: It seems you've confused the size of the country with the size of the government. You can have freedom in both huge and tiny countries.

James: PS: He (and Madison-a big government guy), formed the Democratic-Republican Party, which broke off into several smaller parties in the early 1800's.

Brutus: Of course if that was true you could provide a quote from a speech, newspaper or letter where Jefferson called himself or the Party he formed in 1793, Democratic-Republican. Welcome to your first lesson in American History.

James: PPS: The modern Republican party was founded in 1854-well after Jefferson was dead.

Brutus: So then what did the newspapers, speeches , and surviving letters
from the 1790's call the Party Jefferson formed in 1794: Republican!!!

Dunn: "Although people were still deeply ambivalent about political parties, although one party did not necessarily recognize the legitimacy of the other, and although men on both sides were nostalgic- at one time or another- for the imaginary golden age of political harmony, few people could be found in the early 1790's who believed the parties did not exist. The parties had names: Federalist and Republican." -Susan Dunn, "Jefferson's Second Revolution."
-

-First of all Madison, Hamilton, and Jay are known for writing the Federalists Papers-which outline the constitution, and reasonings (to get the public behind it)

-Jefferson was NOT a writer of the constitution-in fact he didn't even sign it


-Ever hear of the Embargo Act that Jefferson made? You know the act that restricted what Americans could trade? Guess not. (big government)

-What I meant by doubling the size of the country was this: having one person able to double the size of the country is an example of big government.

-The constitution didn't give Jefferson power to expand the nation like this either.

-The modern Republic party was formed in 1854

The Republican campaign text book ... - Google Books

Read it at you might learn something about the modern Republican party's history.

 

[Brutus]

James: -First of all Madison, Hamilton, and Jay are known for writing the Federalists Papers-which outline the constitution, and reasonings (to get the public behind it)

Brutus: did someone disagree?????????????

James: -Jefferson was NOT a writer of the constitution-in fact he didn't even sign it

Brutus: Jefferson was mentor to Madison. Jefferson turned him into Republican, then they formed the Republican Party together in 1794, then Madison served as Jefferson's Sec. of State!!


James: -Ever hear of the Embargo Act that Jefferson made? You know the act that restricted what Americans could trade? Guess not. (big government)

J: yes big government to avoid a war that would have made the government far far bigger!! Think!!

James: -What I meant by doubling the size of the country was this: having one person able to double the size of the country is an example of big government.

Brutus: actually it was a one-off event that was entirely approved by Congress all along the way, and had nothing to do whatsoever with ideology!!

James: -The constitution didn't give Jefferson power to expand the nation like this either.

Brutus: as I said it was a one-off event that had nothing to do with ideology, was approved by Congress, kept the government smaller than it would have been if a war had erupted, was not mentioned or anticipated in the Constitution; not to mention a once in a life time opportunity that would have been stupid to pass up.

James:-The modern Republic party was formed in 1854

Brutus: more intrested in Jefferson Republican Party of 1794

The Republican campaign text book ... - Google Books

Read it at you might learn something about the modern Republican party's history.

Brutus: Whats wrong with Jeffersonian Republican history given that it shares perfectly ideology of freedom with modern Republicans?

 

[Avorysuds]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans stand for exactly the same thing.

Kevin Karl Kane was the first "conservative".

LOL. Back to the KKK and clans shit are you Rtard, hahaha.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

James: -First of all Madison, Hamilton, and Jay are known for writing the Federalists Papers-which outline the constitution, and reasonings (to get the public behind it)

Brutus: did someone disagree?????????????

James: -Jefferson was NOT a writer of the constitution-in fact he didn't even sign it

Brutus: Jefferson was mentor to Madison. Jefferson turned him into Republican, then they formed the Republican Party together in 1794, then Madison served as Jefferson's Sec. of State!!

James: didn't dispute their relationship-just said Jefferson didn't write the constitution.



James: -Ever hear of the Embargo Act that Jefferson made? You know the act that restricted what Americans could trade? Guess not. (big government)

J: yes big government to avoid a war that would have made the government far far bigger!! Think!!

James: And how did avoiding that war turn out? surely nothing like a war broke out in 1812.



James: -What I meant by doubling the size of the country was this: having one person able to double the size of the country is an example of big government.

Brutus: actually it was a one-off event that was entirely approved by Congress all along the way, and had nothing to do whatsoever with ideology!!

James: -The constitution didn't give Jefferson power to expand the nation like this either.

Brutus: as I said it was a one-off event that had nothing to do with ideology, was approved by Congress, kept the government smaller than it would have been if a war had erupted, was not mentioned or anticipated in the Constitution; not to mention a once in a life time opportunity that would have been stupid to pass up.

James: Never said whether it was a good or bad idea. But the constitution didn't give the president the power to carry out such an act. Just because congress approved of it, and it was a one off-thing-doesn't mean it wasn't big government.



James:-The modern Republic party was formed in 1854

Brutus: more intrested in Jefferson Republican Party of 1794

The Republican campaign text book ... - Google Books

Read it at you might learn something about the modern Republican party's history.

Brutus: Whats wrong with Jeffersonian Republican history given that it shares perfectly ideology of freedom with modern Republicans?

James: Because it doesn't perfectly share ideas of freedoms.

-For example-drugs weren't illegal in 1790's/early 1800's-what party is the party that's for stricter drug enforcement?

-Jefferson and Madison owned slaves-they owned people. The Republican party doesn't advocate, or condone this. In fact it was a Republican who freed the slaves.

-They thought that blacks, and women shouldn't have the freedom to vote. Republicans today don't

They DON'T share "perfectly" the same ideas of freedom. And as I stated before-Madison was a big government guy-regardless of what political party, or who his best friend/mentor was.

 

[Charles_Main]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans, stand for exactly the same thing.

Um I believe you are referring to the Democrat Republican Party. The Modern Republican Party formed in the years before the Civil war. Their first Big Name being Lincoln.

Democratic-Republican Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Democrat-Republican Party was not the Republican Party.

 

[Brutus]

James: -First of all Madison, Hamilton, and Jay are known for writing the Federalists Papers-which outline the constitution, and reasonings (to get the public behind it)

Brutus: did someone disagree?????????????

James: -Jefferson was NOT a writer of the constitution-in fact he didn't even sign it

Brutus: Jefferson was mentor to Madison. Jefferson turned him into Republican, then they formed the Republican Party together in 1794, then Madison served as Jefferson's Sec. of State!!

James: didn't dispute their relationship-just said Jefferson didn't write the constitution.

Brutus: no one said he did write it so why bother???


James: -Ever hear of the Embargo Act that Jefferson made? You know the act that restricted what Americans could trade? Guess not. (big government)

J: yes big government to avoid a war that would have made the government far far bigger!! Think!!

James: And how did avoiding that war turn out? surely nothing like a war broke out in 1812.

Brutus: So??? Did someone say Jefferson had a crystal ball?? You are creating strawmen to change the subject


James: -What I meant by doubling the size of the country was this: having one person able to double the size of the country is an example of big government.

Brutus: actually it was a one-off event that was entirely approved by Congress all along the way, and had nothing to do whatsoever with ideology!!

James: -The constitution didn't give Jefferson power to expand the nation like this either.

Brutus: as I said it was a one-off event that had nothing to do with ideology, was approved by Congress, kept the government smaller than it would have been if a war had erupted, was not mentioned or anticipated in the Constitution; not to mention it was a once in a life time opportunity that would have been stupid to pass up.

James: Never said whether it was a good or bad idea. But the constitution didn't give the president the power to carry out such an act. Just because congress approved of it, and it was a one off-thing-doesn't mean it wasn't big government.



James:-The modern Republic party was formed in 1854

Brutus: more interested in Jeffersonian Republican Party of 1794

James: The Republican campaign text book ... - Google Books

Read it at you might learn something about the modern Republican party's history.

Brutus: Whats wrong with Jeffersonian Republican history given that it shares perfectly ideology of freedom with modern Republicans?

James: Because it doesn't perfectly share ideas of freedoms.

James: -For example-drugs weren't illegal in 1790's/early 1800's-what party is the party that's for stricter drug enforcement?

Brutus: 1) drugs were not an issue let alone a problem then, 2) WFB and many libertarians support legalization so who knows where the encouragement for legalization will come from.


Brutus: -Jefferson and Madison owned slaves-they owned people. The Republican party doesn't advocate, or condone this. In fact it was a Republican who freed the slaves.

James: -They thought that blacks, and women shouldn't have the freedom to vote. Republicans today don't

Brutus: they don't? PLease don't lie!

James: They DON'T share "perfectly" the same ideas of freedom.

Brutus: certainly a lot closer than liberals who openly oppose freedom and liberty and so would be better off in Cuba.

James: And as I stated before-Madison was a big government guy-regardless of what political party, or who his best friend/mentor was.

Brutus: of if true he would have been a Federalist and not fast friend and ally to Jefferson. Sorry.

 

[Brutus]

Charles: Um I believe you are referring to the Democrat Republican Party. The Modern Republican Party formed in the years before the Civil war. Their first Big Name being Lincoln.

Brutus: actually Jefferson formed the Republican Party in 1794 with Madison. THey called it Republican, it meant nothing other than freedom and liberty from government . The name and ideology are identical to modern Republican Party. This is significant as it points out that modern Democrats have no relationship to the concept of America and belong more in Cuba than here.

 

[Agit8r]

That would be Andrew Jackson. Mr. Trail of Tears himself.

Actually, it would be Martin Van Buren. Jackson was the figure around whom he built the party. In either event, do you know to which party Van Buren and Jackson belonged before the Democratic party was built? That's right, the Democratic-Republican party.

Props on the historic knowledge! Also, Madison served as an advisor to Jackson. And the Democratic Republicans defended the Democratic Clubs or "self created societies" before any of that. Though they used the term "Republicanism" rather than democracy, they were certainly advocates of popular soveriegnty

 

[JamesInFlorida]

James: -First of all Madison, Hamilton, and Jay are known for writing the Federalists Papers-which outline the constitution, and reasonings (to get the public behind it)

Brutus: did someone disagree?????????????

James: -Jefferson was NOT a writer of the constitution-in fact he didn't even sign it

Brutus: Jefferson was mentor to Madison. Jefferson turned him into Republican, then they formed the Republican Party together in 1794, then Madison served as Jefferson's Sec. of State!!

James: didn't dispute their relationship-just said Jefferson didn't write the constitution.

Brutus: no one said he did write it so why bother???


James: -Ever hear of the Embargo Act that Jefferson made? You know the act that restricted what Americans could trade? Guess not. (big government)

J: yes big government to avoid a war that would have made the government far far bigger!! Think!!

James: And how did avoiding that war turn out? surely nothing like a war broke out in 1812.

Brutus: So??? Did someone say Jefferson had a crystal ball?? You are creating strawmen to change the subject


James: -What I meant by doubling the size of the country was this: having one person able to double the size of the country is an example of big government.

Brutus: actually it was a one-off event that was entirely approved by Congress all along the way, and had nothing to do whatsoever with ideology!!

James: -The constitution didn't give Jefferson power to expand the nation like this either.

Brutus: as I said it was a one-off event that had nothing to do with ideology, was approved by Congress, kept the government smaller than it would have been if a war had erupted, was not mentioned or anticipated in the Constitution; not to mention it was a once in a life time opportunity that would have been stupid to pass up.

James: Never said whether it was a good or bad idea. But the constitution didn't give the president the power to carry out such an act. Just because congress approved of it, and it was a one off-thing-doesn't mean it wasn't big government.



James:-The modern Republic party was formed in 1854

Brutus: more interested in Jeffersonian Republican Party of 1794

James: The Republican campaign text book ... - Google Books

Read it at you might learn something about the modern Republican party's history.

Brutus: Whats wrong with Jeffersonian Republican history given that it shares perfectly ideology of freedom with modern Republicans?

James: Because it doesn't perfectly share ideas of freedoms.

James: -For example-drugs weren't illegal in 1790's/early 1800's-what party is the party that's for stricter drug enforcement?

Brutus: 1) drugs were not an issue let alone a problem then, 2) WFB and many libertarians support legalization so who knows where the encouragement for legalization will come from.


Brutus: -Jefferson and Madison owned slaves-they owned people. The Republican party doesn't advocate, or condone this. In fact it was a Republican who freed the slaves.

James: -They thought that blacks, and women shouldn't have the freedom to vote. Republicans today don't

Brutus: they don't? PLease don't lie!

James: They DON'T share "perfectly" the same ideas of freedom.

Brutus: certainly a lot closer than liberals who openly oppose freedom and liberty and so would be better off in Cuba.

James: And as I stated before-Madison was a big government guy-regardless of what political party, or who his best friend/mentor was.

Brutus: of if true he would have been a Federalist and not fast friend and ally to Jefferson. Sorry.

You obviously need to learn what a double negative means. Two negatives make a positive. So by saying Madison and Jefferson didn't think women or blacks should be to vote, and by saying Republicans don't. This means Republicans don't think women and black shouldn't be allowed to vote. This statements means that Republicans think women and blacks SHOULD be allowed to vote.

I understand if the concept that two negative's don't don't make a positive confuses you.


You do realize Madison wanted the states (which before the constitution were essentially 13 separately run countries), to be governed under one constitution right? This means implementing a much stronger federal government. How is this not big government?

 

[Agit8r]

do you hate Jefferson and American principles?

Jefferson was a "conservative"? Are you sure?

Yes Jefferson was a conservative who stood for freeedom and liberty above all other things by far. In fact, it was the only reason he formed the Republican Party in 1794.

Pretty vague for an "only" reason. So what did freedom mean to the Democratic Republicans?

"Doctr Eustis will be so kind as to deliver you this Letter.— I am persuaded you will find him a man of a candid and fair Mind and liberal sentiments.
I congratulate you on the return of Peace. The War both in America and Europe was designed by Tyrant Kings to exterminate those rights and liberties which the Gracious Creator has granted to Man, and to sink the happiness resulting therefrom in ruin and oblivion.— Is there not, my friend, reason to believe, that the principles of Democratic Republicanism are already better understood than they were before; and that by the continued efforts of Men of Science and Virtue, they will extend more and more till the turbulent and destructive Spirit of War shall cease?— The proud oppressors over the Earth shall be totally broken down and those classes of Men who have hitherto been the victims of their rage and cruelty shall perpetually enjoy perfect Peace and Safety till time shall be no more."

-- Samuel Adams; letter to Thomas Jefferson (Novemr 18th 1801)

Oh yeah, baby

 

[NYcarbineer]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans stand for exactly the same thing.

Kevin Karl Kane was the first "conservative".

Who the hell is Kevin Kane?

By the way, the KKK were mostly Democrats.

They were mostly Conservative Democrats.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Democratic party traces back to Jefferson via Andrew Jackson, Jackson being opposed in 1828 by John Quincy Adams, whose National Republican party was the ancestor of the Republican Party of Lincoln.

The Democratic Party eventually became a north/south liberal/conservative coalition until 1964, when the Southern Conservative Democrats largely left to become Republicans and turn the once moderate Republican party into the conservative thingamajig it is today.

 

[Agit8r]

The Democratic party traces back to Jefferson via Andrew Jackson, Jackson being opposed in 1828 by John Quincy Adams, whose National Republican party was the ancestor of the Republican Party of Lincoln.

The Democratic Party eventually became a north/south liberal/conservative coalition until 1964, when the Southern Conservative Democrats largely left to become Republicans and turn the once moderate Republican party into the conservative thingamajig it is today.

Lincoln. Now HE was a REPUBLICAN

 

[American Horse]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans, stand for exactly the same thing.

John C. Frémont

 

[Agit8r]

Actually, it was Thomas Jefferson who formed the Republican Party in 1794 to stand for freedom and liberty from government. Modern Republicans, especially Tea Party Republicans, stand for exactly the same thing.

John C. Frémont

just like modern Republicans, right?

 

[Charles_Main]

You guys are really pretty funny. It is like a couple Dems and a Couple of Republicans finally opened their History books and were like holy shit. the Democrat-Republican Party????, and you just assumed that because the Name was similar that Either Current party has any real ties to the Old Democrat Republican Party.

 

[Brutus]

Yes, the liberals have no idea that what they stand for does not belong in the American tradition at all.

 

[washamericom]

papercan... or "babe"

 

[Brutus]

Haha, Longhorn. I do agree with you that OU sucks. However, Jefferson was for free-market capitalism, the most active president for states rights and perhaps had the greatest influence of individualism over collectivism of any president to date. Classical liberalism, although that term has little to do with progessives of today.....other than he was very much into the arts.

Brutus: in fact Jefferson started the Republican Party in 1794 because even then he wanted smaller government!! IT was his entire view of government: people should be free of it as much as possible.

"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."