Who Wants to Kill Grandma?

[JBeukema]

The simple truth is that for all the problems with private health insurance for the young and working age populations, it just doesn't work for seniors. We tried it. That's why we ended up creating Medicare.


The Ryan plan is to get rid of Medicare and in place of it give seniors a voucher to buy health care insurance from private insurers. Now, what if you can't buy as much as insurance or as much care as you need? Well, start saving now or just too bad.



Now, by any reasonable standard, that's getting rid of Medicare. Abolishing Medicare. Phasing it out. Whatever you want to call it. Medicare is this single payer program that guarantees seniors health care, as noted above. Ryan's plan pushes seniors into the private markets and give them a voucher. That's called getting rid of the program. There's simply no ifs or caveats about. That's not cuts or slowing of the growth. That's abolishing the whole program. Saying anything else is a lie.

Bring on the Bamboozlement | Talking Points Memo

 

[auditor0007]

The simple truth is that for all the problems with private health insurance for the young and working age populations, it just doesn't work for seniors. We tried it. That's why we ended up creating Medicare.


The Ryan plan is to get rid of Medicare and in place of it give seniors a voucher to buy health care insurance from private insurers. Now, what if you can't buy as much as insurance or as much care as you need? Well, start saving now or just too bad.



Now, by any reasonable standard, that's getting rid of Medicare. Abolishing Medicare. Phasing it out. Whatever you want to call it. Medicare is this single payer program that guarantees seniors health care, as noted above. Ryan's plan pushes seniors into the private markets and give them a voucher. That's called getting rid of the program. There's simply no ifs or caveats about. That's not cuts or slowing of the growth. That's abolishing the whole program. Saying anything else is a lie.

Bring on the Bamboozlement | Talking Points Memo

We are stuck behind a rock and a hard place. Medicare costs are going to skyrocket under the current system. However, I agree with you that this is going to greatly diminish the ability for poorer and lower middle class individuals to purchase adequate coverage. And with much higher administrative costs, even less money will be available for actual healthcare with private insurance companies running the show. When Grandma needs constant medical care and the policy has paid out its maximum, what are the insurance companies going to do with Grandma? I guess we will see the real death panels then, but at least they won't be administered by some bureaucrat; it'll be a caring private insurer instead.

While I can see this working to reduce government costs, it won't reduce the costs to individuals. We will just be paying a great deal more to private insurers and probably will receive less for our money. If this is passed and put into effect, I can see this being the trigger that will eventually lead us to a single payer plan.

 

[WillowTree]

The simple truth is that for all the problems with private health insurance for the young and working age populations, it just doesn't work for seniors. We tried it. That's why we ended up creating Medicare.


The Ryan plan is to get rid of Medicare and in place of it give seniors a voucher to buy health care insurance from private insurers. Now, what if you can't buy as much as insurance or as much care as you need? Well, start saving now or just too bad.



Now, by any reasonable standard, that's getting rid of Medicare. Abolishing Medicare. Phasing it out. Whatever you want to call it. Medicare is this single payer program that guarantees seniors health care, as noted above. Ryan's plan pushes seniors into the private markets and give them a voucher. That's called getting rid of the program. There's simply no ifs or caveats about. That's not cuts or slowing of the growth. That's abolishing the whole program. Saying anything else is a lie.

Bring on the Bamboozlement | Talking Points Memo

Don't blame it on Ryan. Asswipe stole 960 Billion dollars from seniors so he could curry favor with illegals.

 

[boedicca]

The counter question to the OP is: Who wants to help GE generate more tax free profits?

 

[Zoom-boing]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult childrens) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

 

[peach174]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult children's) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

That's just fine and dandy, but what happens to the one's that never had children or their children died before they do?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'd kill both my grandmothers if they weren't dead already.

My mother's mother was an insufferable manipulative XXXX-Meister of the first order. Her idea of fun was squirting the oil from a lemon peel in your eye.

I never even met my father's mother. Any woman who wants nothing to do with the child of her son who was KIA doesn't deserve to live IMO.

So there's nothing sacred about grandmothers in my book.

Kill them all and decrease the surplus population.

Limit use of "C" word strictly to the Flame Zone. - Moderator

 

[WillowTree]

I'd kill both my grandmothers if they weren't dead already.

My mother's mother was an insufferable manipulative XXXX-Mester of the first order. Her idea of fun was squirting the oil from a lemon peel in your eye.

I never even met my father's mother. Any woman who wants nothing to do with the child of her son who was KIA doesn't deserve to live IMO.

So there's nothing sacred about grandmothers in my book.

Kill them all and decrease the surplus population.

Now that just hurts my fweeeelwings..

 

[Two Thumbs]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult childrens) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

What I great idea!

Premiums might be a bitch, but I guess it beats Soylent Green!

 

[Two Thumbs]

The simple truth is that for all the problems with private health insurance for the young and working age populations, it just doesn't work for seniors. We tried it. That's why we ended up creating Medicare.


The Ryan plan is to get rid of Medicare and in place of it give seniors a voucher to buy health care insurance from private insurers. Now, what if you can't buy as much as insurance or as much care as you need? Well, start saving now or just too bad.



Now, by any reasonable standard, that's getting rid of Medicare. Abolishing Medicare. Phasing it out. Whatever you want to call it. Medicare is this single payer program that guarantees seniors health care, as noted above. Ryan's plan pushes seniors into the private markets and give them a voucher. That's called getting rid of the program. There's simply no ifs or caveats about. That's not cuts or slowing of the growth. That's abolishing the whole program. Saying anything else is a lie.

Bring on the Bamboozlement | Talking Points Memo

We haveta do sumptin sooner or later.

But hey, we can follow the dem plan of passing the buck again. Or is that again-again?

 

[Luissa]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult children's) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

That's just fine and dandy, but what happens to the one's that never had children or their children died before they do?

Exactly! There is a lady at my work who is 103 and never had children. Even if she did, I bet she would have outlived most of them. A few others have outlived their children. Plus what about the ones who have children who dont care or take advantage of them?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Hey I didn't say putting seniors on their kid's plans was perfect. I literally typed that as I was thinking it.

But for many would that be an option? Treat those retired seniors as if they were children -- in insurance terms. Vouchers could still be given to the seniors, which they could use toward their portion of the premium. The seniors could also contribute a certain amount on their own. I have no idea if those two things combined would cover the increase in the premium or not but if not, couldn't the adult children cover the rest? That way the responsibility is on the family rather than the government in taking care of the elderly?

As for those without children . . . aren't there insurance exchanges attached to this (thought I saw that somewhere)? If not . . .come up with some ideas. Would a medicare type program just for childless couples be feasible and less costly? I don't know, again just pondering here . . . .

Also for health insurance in general, why don't they change what's covered? I think it's stupid for every doctor visit and general maintenance stuff to be covered by your health insurance. That's part of what is driving the costs up, isn't it? Liking it to car insurance if that covered oil changes, inspections, tire rotations and the like your premiums would double. If you reduced what's covered then the doctors would be competing for your business (not for some insurance reimbursement) and prices would decrease.

Aggh, I don't pretend to understand most of this stuff. Just throwing ideas around.

 

[Zoom-boing]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult childrens) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

What I great idea!

Premiums might be a bitch, but I guess it beats Soylent Green!

Speaking of soylent green . . . I'm hungry for lunch!

 

[xsited1]

Going to lunch, but you kind folks might find this useful:

"Medicare," Chapter 12, Cato Handbook for Policymakers, 7th Edition (2009).

Congress should

• establish, in all parts of Medicare, premiums proportionate to lifetime earnings;
• allow seniors to opt out of Medicare completely, without losing Social Security benefits;
• give Medicare enrollees a means-tested, risk-adjusted voucher with which they may purchase the health plan of their choice;
• limit the growth of Medicare vouchers to the level of inflation;
• allow workers to save their Medicare taxes in a personal, inheritable account dedicated to retirement health expenses;
• fund any ‘‘transition costs’’ by reducing other government spending, not by raising taxes.

 

[auditor0007]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult childrens) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

And the kids will pay for it how? Those rates are going to be astronomical and you know it. The vast majority of healthcare costs come in the retirement years. This is why Medicare costs are going through the roof. Expected healthcare costs will be around $200,000 per person per retiree. Add on administrative costs, and the insurance companies would need to charge around $20,000 per person per year just to break even. Basically, you would have a very large portion of retirees going without health insurance because they couldn't afford it. Now with the Republican plan, I believe they would pay $15,000, leaving the rest to the individual, so the cost would not be that much. However, the $20,000 figure covers cost only with no room for any profit, so that figure is low. Also there will still be out of pocket costs to the retiree. And last of all, how will premiums be determined? Will there be exclusions or higher premiums for those with pre-existing conditions?

 

[JBeukema]

Kill them all and decrease the surplus population.

I think I found KittenKoder...

 

[JBeukema]

What ever happened to 'Medicare Plus'?

If you let all adults enroll, you bring down costs. Medicare can be the basis of a nation-wide opt-in system.

 

[auditor0007]

Hey I didn't say putting seniors on their kid's plans was perfect. I literally typed that as I was thinking it.

But for many would that be an option? Treat those retired seniors as if they were children -- in insurance terms. Vouchers could still be given to the seniors, which they could use toward their portion of the premium. The seniors could also contribute a certain amount on their own. I have no idea if those two things combined would cover the increase in the premium or not but if not, couldn't the adult children cover the rest? That way the responsibility is on the family rather than the government in taking care of the elderly?

As for those without children . . . aren't there insurance exchanges attached to this (thought I saw that somewhere)? If not . . .come up with some ideas. Would a medicare type program just for childless couples be feasible and less costly? I don't know, again just pondering here . . . .

Also for health insurance in general, why don't they change what's covered? I think it's stupid for every doctor visit and general maintenance stuff to be covered by your health insurance. That's part of what is driving the costs up, isn't it? Liking it to car insurance if that covered oil changes, inspections, tire rotations and the like your premiums would double. If you reduced what's covered then the doctors would be competing for your business (not for some insurance reimbursement) and prices would decrease.

Aggh, I don't pretend to understand most of this stuff. Just throwing ideas around.

The one thing I agree with 100% is that health insurance should not cover every last thing. Actually, it rarely does anymore. Unfortunately, it still all goes through the insurance company increasing costs dramatically. Most people have a deductible that they must meet before their insurance kicks in. The problem is that the insurance companies set the rates for payment on all medical bills, whether it is part of your deductible or if they are footing the bill. In the end, it is still the insurance companies determining how much the healthcare provider is paid. Sometimes this works to the benefit of the patient, sometimes not. In the long run, I'm sure it increases costs though.

Here is an example. I need lab tests done every few months. I also need phlebotomies every few months. When I was paying cash due to not having insurance, my phlebotomies cost $145. Now with insurance, I still have to pay out of pocket because I am well under my $2500 deductible. The cost is now $115. On the other hand, if I get my lab tests done on my own out of network I can get them for $125. Having them done through a network provider, even with my insurance company's discount, my cost is $235.

For things like this, it seems quite evident that there would be much more competition and lower rates if the insurance companies did not have their hands in basic medical care.

 

[Old Rocks]

The only solution to the health care problem is to adopt a plan that has already had proven success in other nations. One that would cost less per capital with better results than we presently see in the US. So, whom do we have to look to for such a plan?

How about just about any of the other industrial nations.

 

[Two Thumbs]

What if they phased out Medicare but enabled adult children (what an oxymoron, eh?) to put their parents (over a certain age . . .) onto their (the adult childrens) health care plan, much like adult children can keep their adult children on their health care plan till the kids are 26? Just thinking out loud here . . . .

What I great idea!

Premiums might be a bitch, but I guess it beats Soylent Green!

Speaking of soylent green . . . I'm hungry for lunch!

Make sure to get the kosher ones. You feel a little bit more guilty but they help keep you regular.