Who should rule test?

[midcan5]

No quibbling, no long explanations, no, it depends....you're applying for a leadership role, answers are yes or no.


Do you understand your core values?
Is liberty more important than equality?
Is the state necessary?
Is government necessary?
Are all values relative?
Are rights more important than duties?
Have you ever regretted something you have done?
Does the free market exist?
Is welfare acceptable?
Are you better than a homeless bum?
Is the separation of church and state a good thing?
Should societies attempt social justice?
Do you read?
Are poor people lazy?
Should health care be available to all?


All 15 questions are Yes or No. Two questions are debatable, four questions are 'No,' Nine demand a 'Yes' answer if you are to rule. A correct score to be a ruler must be close to perfect. Not done yet.

 

[Diuretic]

Just give me the job, no need for a test

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No quibbling, no long explanations, no, it depends....you're applying for a leadership role, answers are yes or no.


Do you understand your core values?
Is liberty more important than equality?
Is the state necessary?
Is government necessary?
Are all values relative?
Are rights more important than duties?
Have you ever regretted something you have done?
Does the free market exist?
Is welfare acceptable?
Are you better than a homeless bum?
Is the separation of church and state a good thing?
Should societies attempt social justice?
Do you read?
Are poor people lazy?
Should health care be available to all?


All 15 questions are Yes or No. Two questions are debatable, four questions are 'No,' Nine demand a 'Yes' answer if you are to rule. A correct score to be a ruler must be close to perfect. Not done yet.

Ohh and who made the decision on what is required?

yes
yes ( one can not have equality without liberty)
yes
yes ( the above is the same question basicly)
no
yes
yes
yes
yes ( misleading question though as it doesn't address by whom)
no ( another misleading question that does not provide enough information for an informed answer)
yes
no
yes
no ( another misleading question without enough information for an informed response)
yes ( and another one, as it does not address how such care is provided)

The questions do not provide enough information to be valid. Lets take the last for example... you are aware that "health care" is already available to everyone in the United States?

 

[Diuretic]

Oh, we're being serious.

Do you understand your core values?

Yes.

Is liberty more important than equality?

No.


Is the state necessary?

Yes - at the moment

Is government necessary?

Yes - at the moment

Are all values relative?

No


Are rights more important than duties?

No


Have you ever regretted something you have done?

Yes.


Does the free market exist?

Yes. The purest model is the drug trade.

Is welfare acceptable?

Yes.

Are you better than a homeless bum?

Yes

Is the separation of church and state a good thing?

Yes.


Should societies attempt social justice?

Yes.


Do you read?

Yes.


Are poor people lazy?

No.


Should health care be available to all?

Yes.

 

[midcan5]

Interesting.

I want to wait just a bit before I give my take. This was prompted by our current president who I personally think may be the worst leader American as elected to so high an office.

 

[Avatar4321]

Interesting.

I want to wait just a bit before I give my take. This was prompted by our current president who I personally think may be the worst leader American as elected to so high an office.

I can understand why you and others dont like the President, but your tendency to hyperbole is starting to get boring.

Who should rule? We should rule ourselves. Yet few people even try.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

And he can't seem to even answer his own question.

 

[midcan5]

I can understand why you and others dont like the President, but your tendency to hyperbole is starting to get boring.

Hyperbole? Lt Bush to his soldiers, 'we go this way.'
Soldiers to Lt. Bush, 'but sir that a quagmire!'
next scene, soldiers stuck in quagmire.
Bush to soldiers, ' gotta go, have political work in Alabama, cya.'

Take the test and stop whining.

ps I and those others, whomever they may be, may like Bush just fine, good guy to have around, just not presidential material.

 

[Avatar4321]

Hyperbole? Lt Bush to his soldiers, 'we go this way.'
Soldiers to Lt. Bush, 'but sir that a quagmire!'
next scene, soldiers stuck in quagmire.
Bush to soldiers, ' gotta go, have political work in Alabama, cya.'

Take the test and stop whining.

ps I and those others, whomever they may be, may like Bush just fine, good guy to have around, just not presidential material.

thanks for making my point. Just get to your point and start whining.

 

[Doug]

This is an interesting test, but I object to the Yes/No requirement.

For example, take the last question "Should healthcare be available to all?"

I think this is a proxy for "Should the government nationalize the healthcare industry and make its services available to everyone, regardless of merit, with no payment at the point of consumption -- provided they are American citizens or inside the borders of America (outside the borders, we don't care)." (I added the last bit in parentheses to deflate the assumed moral superiority of people advocating socialized medicine, because I have never yet met a Leftist who is willing to advocate that Americans should pay for the healthcare of the whole planet.)

And we can answer this question, on principle, the same way we would answer the following question:

"Should food be available to all?" Now the availability of food is even more important than the availabilty of healthcare. But I have met few Leftists (in America) who think we should follow the Soviet example and collectivize our farms, or give away the food in the supermarkets. Despite food being a commodity which makes money for wicked white capitalists, it all too available in America.

The answer to both these questions is:

"Yes, but in such a way that no one is rewarded for refusing to contribute the common effort which produces food and healthcare, and in such a way that the human ingenuity, which has so enormously increased the availability and effectiveness of both, in part driven by the desire for material rewards, is not stifled.

Within that framework, some government intervention may be helpful, although the extravagant expectations of those who favor it will probably be disappointed, and the charitable impulse towards the truly unfortunate should continue to be honored and where possible made the first resort."

 

[midcan5]

Both Diuretic and RetiredGySgt did fine and ironically Gunny although more conservative had more of my choices.

I guess I shouldn't have called this a test, it must have caused unnecessary anxiety or something. It was only meant for debate and was prompted by our current fearful leader.

Do it now - - my take on the questions.


There was debate over whether the questions were too ambiguous to answer easily. While that is true, if you answered the first question yes, you should have some idea how to answer the others.

1. Do you understand your core values? Yes
2. Is liberty more important than equality? yes
3. Is the state necessary? Yes
4. Is government necessary? Yes
5. Are all values relative? No
6. Are rights more important than duties? debatable but I select ?
7. Have you ever regretted something you have done? Yes
8. Does the free market exist? No, markets exist but....
9. Is welfare acceptable? Yes
10. Are you better than a homeless bum? No, if yes, how and why?
11. Is the separation of church and state a good thing? Yes
12. Should societies attempt social justice? Yes, who else would?
13. Do you read? Yes, this could be do you think but that is way too complex.
14. Are poor people lazy? No
15. Should health care be available to all? Yes

Reasons for my choices

Most everyone got stuck on exceptions. 'It depends' was the key comment but if you are a leader at some point you have to make a choice. Can one really imagine modern life without a state/government? Is not personal responsibility a primary value? Show me that free market? Have you never known a family in need? Should society allow anything? Ever meet a hard working poor person? Healthcare for all - why not and who else would do it?

Two and six are the tough ones. At first I considered 2 and 6 either/or but I changed my mind on 2. Twelve is tough for some but imagine if no cop existed or no regulator or no law?

Five, eight, ten, and 14 are 'no.' (5) Individual responsibility is/should be a key value and individual freedom is required for that to exist. The right/conservative push to control our personal life runs counter to this very key American value. (8) the free market is an interesting abstraction / concept? but the actors who make it up do so mostly for self interest. These actors can act in anyway, so the idea that other actors are free is a misconception. The free market is more a utopian ideal than a reality. A market (without free) is an excellent solution but recognise its potential and problems too. (10) Anyone could end up homeless. (14) Some of the hardest working people I know are poor.

originally posted here:
http://www.fullpolitics.com/viewthread.php?tid=25749#pid564666


"Freedom depends on how men actually do behave, not upon how they are allowed to behave. It is a matter of character, not of foolproof constitutional devices. For fools are paramount in politics, and there is nothing which they are unable to destroy." (p 156 The Liberal Mind Kenneth Minogue)

http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/Book.php?recordID=0089

 

[Gem]

While I agree that someone with Presidential potential must be able to answer tough questions with direct answers - I disagree wholeheartedly that someone with this potential would be able to answer these questions with strict "yes" or "no" answers. I don't want a President who sees the world in terms of simple "yes" or "no," but rather, "let me examine the circumstances, consider the background, debate the potential benefits and problems and then make a decision - a decisive, well-researched one that while not pleasing everyone, is well-reasoned and thoroughly considered."

1. Do you understand your core values? Yes.
2. Is liberty more important than equality? Yes.
3. Is the state necessary? I don't know.
4. Is government necessary? Yes.
5. Are all values relative? No.
6. Are rights more important than duties? Yes.
7. Have you ever regretted something you have done? Yes.
8. Does the free market exist? Not currently.
9. Is welfare acceptable? Operated cautiously and prudently...yes.
10. Are you better than a homeless bum? No.
11. Is the separation of church and state a good thing? Yes - it is very important to keep the state out of religion.
12. Should societies attempt social justice? It depends upon the circumstance, and the solution proposed.
13. Do you read? Yes.
14. Are poor people lazy? I'm sure some are - just as some wealthy people are lazy.
15. Should health care be available to all? Yes.

 

[AllieBaba]

Do you understand your core values? Of course, but I resent using trendy psychobabble.
Is liberty more important than equality? Yes.
Is the state necessary? Yes.
Is government necessary? Yes.
Are all values relative? Yes.
Are rights more important than duties? Yes.
Have you ever regretted something you have done? Yes.
Does the free market exist? Yes.
Is welfare acceptable? Yes.
Are you better than a homeless bum? No.
Is the separation of church and state a good thing? Yes.
Should societies attempt social justice? No way.
Do you read? Yes.
Are poor people lazy? No.
Should health care be available to all? Yes. And it already is, in this country.

 

[midcan5]

Gem, in spite of your reservations, you passed. I think we agree on everyone. I did that for debate and as I noted if you can answer the first question, Yes honestly, the rest are at least answerable.

Allibaba, also passed with flying colors. Funny, a few people I disagree with usually, have similar ways of seeing things. Interesting.

 

[jillian]

Do you understand your core values? Yes
Is liberty more important than equality? Yes
Is the state necessary? No
Is government necessary? Yes
Are all values relative? No
Are rights more important than duties? Yes
Have you ever regretted something you have done? No
Does the free market exist? No
Is welfare acceptable? Yes
Are you better than a homeless bum? I don't know
Is the separation of church and state a good thing? Yes. Religion needs to be kept out of the State (that one was for Gem ;o) )
Should societies attempt social justice? Yes
Do you read? Yes
Are poor people lazy? No
Should health care be available to all? Yes

 

[AllieBaba]

This is very telling.

You think values aren't relative. Whose values? Yours? How about mine?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Taking liberties to assume that the question means what I think it means...

Do you understand your core values? Yes
Is liberty more important than equality? Yes
Is the state necessary? Yes
Is government necessary? Yes
Are all values relative? No
Are rights more important than duties? Yes
Have you ever regretted something you have done? No
Does the free market exist? Yes
Is welfare acceptable? No
Are you better than a homeless bum? Yes
Is the separation of church and state a good thing? No
Should societies attempt social justice? No
Do you read? Yes
Are poor people lazy? No
Should health care be available to all? No

 

[midcan5]

This is very telling.

You think values aren't relative. Whose values? Yours? How about mine?

I answered that above: Individual responsibility is/should be a key value and individual freedom is required for that to exist.

 

[M14 Shooter]

This is very telling.
You think values aren't relative. Whose values? Yours? How about mine?

What we hold to be right, and good, and true IS right and good and true for all men. Otherwise we're just another robber tribe.

 

[AllieBaba]

What we hold to be right, and good, and true IS right and good and true for all men. Otherwise we're just another robber tribe.

That's true, but values are still relative.

Our values aren't the same of, say, socialist values. Or jihadist values.