who should pay

Iowa10000

Rookie
Nov 1, 2010
391
44
0
republicans want you to believe that all you need to do is cut taxes and fire people and get rid of programs and all will be well.
But none of them want to do without what they want, protection of all kinds, from fire to police to food safety to the arm forces. They want the kids taught at a high level, and they want the roads cleaned of snow and ice and potholes.
They want safe parks and lighted streets.
they want you to lose your job or do it for less because they think your not worth the price.

But when it comes to paying for everything they want you, the people who work for a daily wage to pick up more of the cost so they can lower their cost. They understand that 90% of the average persons income goes to living needs and little of anything is left to be taxed.
They think this is unfair because they make more than you do and have to pay more in taxes.

But the truth is people who make more use more, and have a built in advantage that goes to provide them with what is needed to make the govt work that allows them to be all they can and make all they can.

The truth is everything that we have is for the benefit of business to be successful. From Police, to city workers to highway workers to teachers to schools to universities to military complex. A single person gets little good out of all that we provide except a chance at taking care of himself and maybe a family.

A company makes money on every person it uses, and everything that person has to have is very important to those companies because without it they wouldn't be workers who are trained and functional.

Now really where are we to get the money needed to run this country and keep everything working if we don't get it from what is best know as income above living needs. You really want to do without what we have now, or is just that you really haven't look at the bottom line, that being that the less that people who do the daily grind have to use/spend the less they will have for incentives to keep the system going, and the less people who will have jobs which is making the wealthy more wea:eusa_eh:lthy every year as they cry all the way to the bank with all their gains.
 
Last edited:
I love how you seem to think the only way to save money is firing police. Especially considering the Federal Government doesnt have anything to do with police pay.
 
I love how you seem to think the only way to save money is firing police. Especially considering the Federal Government doesnt have anything to do with police pay.

OHH but they do. Local police depts get a fair bit of money from the feds. DEA money, grants, etc.

just google:

federal money used for local police departments


Local fire depts get a bit of fed money as well.
the local court systems, etc.
 
Last edited:
we could freeze and cut public sector benefits and cut elected official's salaries down to the average wage of all americans.

We could close bases in countries such as germany and japan and stop spending our resources to help defend them when they are capable of defending themselves.

We could stop giving so much foreign aid to nations until we pay back our debt.

there are more ways than one to acheive spending cuts so that we can pay back the money we have borrowed and spent already.

We are all going to have to suffer a little to deal with the problem we let our government create for the country.
 
republicans want you to believe that all you need to do is cut taxes and fire people and get rid of programs and all will be well.
Really now??? So I guess Democrats want me to believe that all you need to do is raise taxes and hire people and add more programs and all will be well. Either way I agree with neither premise.

But none of them want to do without what they want, protection of all kinds, from fire to police to food safety to the arm forces. They want the kids taught at a high level, and they want the roads cleaned of snow and ice and potholes.

You assume that these things cost tons of money to accomplish efficiently rather than questioning whether or not maybe we aren't doing it properly in the first place. The idea that the more money government pours into something the better it works, is lunacy you wingnut.

They want safe parks and lighted streets.
they want you to lose your job or do it for less because they think your not worth the price.

But when it comes to paying for everything they want you, the people who work for a daily wage to pick up more of the cost so they can lower their cost. They understand that 90% of the average persons income goes to living needs and little of anything is left to be taxed.
They think this is unfair because they make more than you do and have to pay more in taxes.

In common sense land, we can cut government spending almost in half, build up the private sector, strengthen the dollar, and run the federal government on a simple low flat tax rate. We start by closing all oversees military bases in Europe and Asia, save those in Japan and South Korea, ending the War on Drugs, reforming the prison system, scaling back USAID to foreign nations, and cutting social programs by 2% every year for 10 years.

But the truth is people who make more use more, and have a built in advantage that goes to provide them with what is needed to make the govt work that allows them to be all they can and make all they can.

The truth is everything that we have is for the benefit of business to be successful. From Police, to city workers to highway workers to teachers to schools to universities to military complex. A single person gets little good out of all that we provide except a chance at taking care of himself and maybe a family.

We are living above our means as a nation, which creates a bad business environment.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #8
we aren't living above our means, we just refuse to pay for the things we have bought or want.
Truth is the debt is where it is because politicians did not fund what they sold to us out of the taxes that should have been/was collected, but instead took that money and gave it away to those who got them elected and borrowed the money needed to run the country the way it needed to be.

We had pay-go but the republicans did away with it. We had enough money comming in to pay for our programs run by the govt to help the people have what they needed, but once again we gave into the right wing war craze and allow Bush to run two wars without funding, just borrowing.

The people can not do away with living expenses and anyone who thinks that school, police, fire and govt run agencies are not needed just because you don't want to pay for them is nuts. SS and Medicare and welfare are a part of life and saying that only people who can afford it deserve anything is pure right wingnut idiotcy.

The Republicans set up the debt to what it is now, not the Democrats. Where we are is and was a direct inability of the right to run things when they were in control.

Now you want to make believe that somehow it's all the people fault and your side is somehow not to blame and your the only ones who can figure it out, and it's going to take sacrafice from everyone? LOL I saw your sacrafice by passing another unpaid 2.5 trillion debt on top of the last 7 trillion debt for reduced taxation for mainly the very wealthy.

My god people get a backbone and stop being afraid of calling a thief a thief, because that is all republicans are, is thiefs stealing the countrys wealth by saying it's owed to them.

You broke it republicans now you want everyone to help you fix it, but you don;'t think that it's your duty to pay for it, just ours, those who are just surviving from payday to payday.
 
This has got to be the most convoluted OP I've ever seen.
WTF is "they"?
How the hell do police and EMS keep 'big business' afloat?

:cuckoo:

Just another rant about the evil corporations using all the services and leaving us nothing but scraps.

Look away before you start drooling....
 
we aren't living above our means, we just refuse to pay for the things we have bought or want.
Truth is the debt is where it is because politicians did not fund what they sold to us out of the taxes that should have been/was collected, but instead took that money and gave it away to those who got them elected and borrowed the money needed to run the country the way it needed to be.

We had pay-go but the republicans did away with it. We had enough money comming in to pay for our programs run by the govt to help the people have what they needed, but once again we gave into the right wing war craze and allow Bush to run two wars without funding, just borrowing.

The people can not do away with living expenses and anyone who thinks that school, police, fire and govt run agencies are not needed just because you don't want to pay for them is nuts. SS and Medicare and welfare are a part of life and saying that only people who can afford it deserve anything is pure right wingnut idiotcy.

The Republicans set up the debt to what it is now, not the Democrats. Where we are is and was a direct inability of the right to run things when they were in control.

Now you want to make believe that somehow it's all the people fault and your side is somehow not to blame and your the only ones who can figure it out, and it's going to take sacrafice from everyone? LOL I saw your sacrafice by passing another unpaid 2.5 trillion debt on top of the last 7 trillion debt for reduced taxation for mainly the very wealthy.

My god people get a backbone and stop being afraid of calling a thief a thief, because that is all republicans are, is thiefs stealing the countrys wealth by saying it's owed to them.

You broke it republicans now you want everyone to help you fix it, but you don;'t think that it's your duty to pay for it, just ours, those who are just surviving from payday to payday.

Why are you living paycheck to paycheck?
 
See what I mean? Everytime a demonRat moves his lips the lies pour forth.












Tis a hoot





Vote demonRat whydonchya?













:lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
In common sense land, we can cut government spending almost in half, build up the private sector, strengthen the dollar, and run the federal government on a simple low flat tax rate. We start by closing all oversees military bases in Europe and Asia, save those in Japan and South Korea, ending the War on Drugs, reforming the prison system, scaling back USAID to foreign nations, and cutting social programs by 2% every year for 10 years.

I don't see anything in this motto of citizenship that effects the right, except maybe bringing another 3,000,000 people back into the workforce to drive down wages, and then to get things going again maybe start another war.

The flat tax if properly done would be fine, where the income up to the poverty level wasn't included but you know that wouldn't happen. so the bottom line is it's just another scheem for the rich to pay less and force more cost onto those who can't afford it now.
 
I got an idea, lets get out of war making, cut our military by 80%, pay for what we use when we use it like roads, highways, hospitals, airports, school.
Then we turn everything over to the private sector to run it, and get rid of any laws or the need for courts or govt officials as we know the corp's will do a bang up job of doing what is needed and we can trust them.

What the heck, we all know your fellow man will look out for you. and if for some reason your not worthy that's your problem to deal with, it's not ours. It's up to you to get what you have comming and if I or someone is a little better than you at it, tough break learn to live with it.
 
Last edited:
I got an idea, lets get out of war making, cut our military by 80%, pay for what we use when we use it like roads, highways, hospitals, airports, school.
Then we turn everything over to the private sector to run it, and get rid of any laws or the need for courts or govt officials as we know the corp's will do a bang up job of doing what is needed and we can trust them.

What the heck, we all know your fellow man will look out for you. and if for some reason your not worthy that's your problem to deal with, it's not ours. It's up to you to get what you have comming and if I or someone is a little better than you at it, tough break learn to live with it.

I got a better idea. Why don't you learn to think before you post?
 
I love how you seem to think the only way to save money is firing police. Especially considering the Federal Government doesnt have anything to do with police pay.

I think you've skewered this kind of argument, and identified a standard method of the tax and spend class....

The argument is based on psychology rather than accounting: when the politicians can’t justify the spending, they warn the populace of dire events if they don’t pass the bill or agree to the spending.

a. In some circles it is called the 'Washington Monument Ploy.' When the government threatened cuts to the budget of the National Parks Service, they trumpeted that they would have to close the most popular tourist attraction, the Washington Monument. Gordon Tullock, Arthur Seldon, and Gordon L. Brady, “Government Failure: A Primer in Public Choice,” p. 60.

b. “DHS Director Marianne Udow said the state must make a difficult decision: cut money for food banks and homeless shelters for the living or cut money for burials for the dead. The same state that two weeks ago was planning to spend $38 million on iPods for schoolchildren now says it can't afford to bury the dead.” The Tax Foundation - In a New Low for Government Service, Michigan Threatens to Let the People Rot

c. How do you get the folks to vote against a bill to cap state spending? “The campaign pressing for a Taxpayer Bill of Rights is attacking Public Safety Commissioner Anne Jordan for an e-mail in which she says the proposal would eliminate a $50,000 payment to families of law enforcement officers, firefighters and EMTs who die in the line of duty.” Dispatches | The Portland Press Herald / Maine Sunday Telegram

d. And, in my state, NY Governor David Paterson spoke on the radio, warning that if he didn’t get Republican support, “you have no money to pay your police…your corrections officers…your firefighters…your emergency health care workers…you could have anarchy…” Albany, NY - Gov. Paterson In Stern Warning: Shutdown Over Budget Would Cause 'unimaginable chaos,' Crime in New York -- VosIzNeias.com
 
we could freeze and cut public sector benefits and cut elected official's salaries down to the average wage of all americans.

We could close bases in countries such as germany and japan and stop spending our resources to help defend them when they are capable of defending themselves.

We could stop giving so much foreign aid to nations until we pay back our debt.

there are more ways than one to acheive spending cuts so that we can pay back the money we have borrowed and spent already.

We are all going to have to suffer a little to deal with the problem we let our government create for the country.

More, Pilgrim, more!

If you want a real eyeful of potential cuts that would save billions, …

a. The GAO says the federal government made at least $98 billion in ‘improper’ payments in 2009. White House reports $98B in improper government payments - Nov. 18, 2009

b. Federal auditors rated every government program, and found that 22% of them, $123 billion in spending, were ineffective! 50 Examples of Government Waste | The Heritage Foundation

c. Did you know that the CBO reports a vast number of cuts that would save a fortune? http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10294/08-06-BudgetOptions.pdf
Here are a few:
i. The CBO also considered the option of cutting the Airport Improvement Program that provides grants to airports to expand runways and improve security, saying this would reduce spending by $10.7 billion through 2019.

ii. End subsidized loans to graduate students Ten year savings $18.8 billon

iii. End Department of Energy research on fossil fuels. Ten year savings $7.9 billion.

And Federal agriculture subsidies are between $10 and $30 billion a year. This stems from the Depression, when farm families earned half of what the rest of the country earned. Today that is far from the case, and the subsidies primarily go to large operators and landowners- and celebrities. New light shed on farm subsidy payments - Politics - msnbc.com
 
we aren't living above our means, we just refuse to pay for the things we have bought or want.
Truth is the debt is where it is because politicians did not fund what they sold to us out of the taxes that should have been/was collected, but instead took that money and gave it away to those who got them elected and borrowed the money needed to run the country the way it needed to be.

We had pay-go but the republicans did away with it. We had enough money comming in to pay for our programs run by the govt to help the people have what they needed, but once again we gave into the right wing war craze and allow Bush to run two wars without funding, just borrowing.

The people can not do away with living expenses and anyone who thinks that school, police, fire and govt run agencies are not needed just because you don't want to pay for them is nuts. SS and Medicare and welfare are a part of life and saying that only people who can afford it deserve anything is pure right wingnut idiotcy.

The Republicans set up the debt to what it is now, not the Democrats. Where we are is and was a direct inability of the right to run things when they were in control.

Now you want to make believe that somehow it's all the people fault and your side is somehow not to blame and your the only ones who can figure it out, and it's going to take sacrafice from everyone? LOL I saw your sacrafice by passing another unpaid 2.5 trillion debt on top of the last 7 trillion debt for reduced taxation for mainly the very wealthy.

My god people get a backbone and stop being afraid of calling a thief a thief, because that is all republicans are, is thiefs stealing the countrys wealth by saying it's owed to them.

You broke it republicans now you want everyone to help you fix it, but you don;'t think that it's your duty to pay for it, just ours, those who are just surviving from payday to payday.

Keep pointing fingers. That's really productive, you petulant child. WE are all in this together. WE will all go down in flames when this mother implodes. Neither side is blameless, but we are where we are. We've reached the breaking point, you just say "eat the rich!" anymore. You have to get your candy ass out of the cart and push.

I'm ready to do with less services. Many of the things listed in the $2.5 Trillion in cuts will directly effect my everyday life, and more than likely my wallet. (I take metro everyday, cutting that subsidy means either higher local taxes or higher fares. Cutting rail subsidies likewise etc.)

Why can't you do with less? We've created a government that we cannot afford and it's time to remake a government we can afford.
 
we could freeze and cut public sector benefits and cut elected official's salaries down to the average wage of all americans.

We could close bases in countries such as germany and japan and stop spending our resources to help defend them when they are capable of defending themselves.

We could stop giving so much foreign aid to nations until we pay back our debt.

there are more ways than one to acheive spending cuts so that we can pay back the money we have borrowed and spent already.

We are all going to have to suffer a little to deal with the problem we let our government create for the country.

More, Pilgrim, more!

If you want a real eyeful of potential cuts that would save billions, …

a. The GAO says the federal government made at least $98 billion in ‘improper’ payments in 2009. White House reports $98B in improper government payments - Nov. 18, 2009

b. Federal auditors rated every government program, and found that 22% of them, $123 billion in spending, were ineffective! 50 Examples of Government Waste | The Heritage Foundation

c. Did you know that the CBO reports a vast number of cuts that would save a fortune? http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10294/08-06-BudgetOptions.pdf
Here are a few:
i. The CBO also considered the option of cutting the Airport Improvement Program that provides grants to airports to expand runways and improve security, saying this would reduce spending by $10.7 billion through 2019.

ii. End subsidized loans to graduate students Ten year savings $18.8 billon

iii. End Department of Energy research on fossil fuels. Ten year savings $7.9 billion.

And Federal agriculture subsidies are between $10 and $30 billion a year. This stems from the Depression, when farm families earned half of what the rest of the country earned. Today that is far from the case, and the subsidies primarily go to large operators and landowners- and celebrities. New light shed on farm subsidy payments - Politics - msnbc.com

All of these are still nibbling around the edges, until we reform entitlements, nothing substantive will happen.

When social security was created the average life expectancy in the US was 65. Not coincidentally, the retirement age was set at 65. So, if you worked your expected life, and you were still alive, well then you should take a break. Social security would still work if they had indexed the retirement age to the life expectancy. We need to get there. Start that mother moving right not and 4 months per year until it is equal to the average life expectancy in the US again and keep it there. Yep, those of us that aren't that far from 65 (20 years or so) will need to work a little longer than we thought. Well, that's hardly the biggest problem or inconvenience we've had to deal with is it?

If you don't like it you can still get your 401(k), IRA at 59 1/2 and retire when you want on your own dime.

Someone else can deal with socialized medicine (medicare and medicaid)
 
Of all the things you listed, police, fire, education, military etc, only one of them ,military, should be done by the FEDERAL government. The rest are STATE responsibility's according to the Constitution. Not that anyone pay's any attention to that anymore.
 

Forum List

Back
Top