Who should pay for infastructure

[The Rabbi]

The whole post rests on a premise that there is some kind of difference between "business" and individuals. Like businesses are made up of Martians or something.
The truth is that people need jobs, goods and services that businesses provide. Gov't is not acting out of some kind of largesse but rather gets its revenue from business activity. Yet, and here is the subtext, how much benefit is there to anyone from studies about the snail darter? Or any of the thousands of stupid, pointless wastes of money that government does? None, except for those vested interests that continue to get gov't money.

The point is that businesses exploit the very things that give them the ability to create profit and jobs yet don't pay their fair share in taxes.

All you republicans say "You can't tax the job creators" yet they wouldn't have jobs to create if government didn't provide the infrastructure to have it in.

Logistics wouldn't exist without the FEDERAL INTERSTATE SYSTEM. What business would survive without Logistics? Not a single one.

So its time to pay your fair share and no bitching about it.

You are a total buffoon. No doubt there.
You have named one, exactly one, federally funded infrastructure project. There are no others. The entire federal budget does not go to maintaining the highways.
What is business's "fair share" of taxes? How will you assess that? What percentage of highway use is actually personal?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Ignoring the ignorant ad hominem, you've got it backwards. Business creates the need for infrastructure by doing business. Government doesn't create infrastructure to make it possible for there to be business.

*The electric generating system in the southwest before it was inhabitable for most humans.

*Earth City, MO and Park370 in St Peters, MO. Both are cases of big local government using tax dollars to make worthless flood prone land usable for businesses. There is no need for THAT land to be used. Plenty more land around here.

Only reason those two sections of land are important for development are:
-it enriches the land's owners
-it lets the mayor or council person feel like they accomplished something.

*Mid-America Airport - Lambert still isn't being used up to potential. Just some politician decided improperly we needed infrastructure.

More on point though, the government created them w/o a need. Eventually there will be a need I suppose when Lambert gets filled and IF we ever run out of land somehow.

I am a critic by heart. Certainly there are more good examples of infrastructure jumping ahead of business.

I'm from St. Louis. Yeah Mid America airport was a waste. But Earth City and Riverport area help created business. In Columbia, they had infrastructure to intice IBM to bring 600 jobs to the area. You tell me that infrastructure doesn't create business opportunities, and I will laugh in your face.

Nothing a private company could not have done at a profit to itself and the state in the form of taxes.

And yes. I am Laughing at you.

 

[editec]

Who do you believe benefits the most from what this country provides?
Who should pay for the things that our country provides which I myself think that Business needs, in order to make profits. and then all the things that have to be looked after to make sure business is not doing us harm or selling us short.

From Schools to colleges to highways to airports and sea ports and all parts of our govt that has to oversea what happens. Who should pay for these things?

There is no one answer to this question.

IN some cases it make far more sense to impose USER FEES on infrstructure.

In other cases it is more efficient to pay for these services and structural improvements through general (or special kinds of) taxation.

The gasoline tax is a good example of a hybrid between FEE BASED and general taxation.

Tolls roads a good example of fee based taxation.

The MILIARY is a good example of using the general tax base to pay for mutually benficial services.

Don't we already all understand this?

 

[The Rabbi]

Who do you believe benefits the most from what this country provides?
Who should pay for the things that our country provides which I myself think that Business needs, in order to make profits. and then all the things that have to be looked after to make sure business is not doing us harm or selling us short.

From Schools to colleges to highways to airports and sea ports and all parts of our govt that has to oversea what happens. Who should pay for these things?

There is no one answer to this question.

IN some cases it make far more sense to impose USER FEES on infrstructure.

In other cases it is more efficient to pay for these services and structural improvements through general (or special kinds of) taxation.

The gasoline tax is a good example of a hybrid between FEE BASED and general taxation.

Tolls roads a good example of fee based taxation.

The MILIARY is a good example of using the general tax base to pay for mutually benficial services.

Don't we already all understand this?

Glad you mentioned tolls.
There is a bridge between Philadelphia and Camden NJ (can't recall the name). The bridge was constructed in the 1950s or so. The municipalities involved floated a bond issue to pay for its construction and instituted a toll to pay the bonds. The bonds were paid off years ago but the toll remains, at the same or higher rate.
It is a good example of needing drastic action to remove a tax, even one that was instituted for some limited time. I recall there was a communications' tax just removed that was instituted to pay for the Spanish American War.

 

[Vanquish]

Nobody wants to pay anything. Businesses don't want to pay. Citizens feel overtaxed. So what's going to happen when the roads fall apart and the bridges crumble?

Oh everyone's going to point the finger like they're doing already and it's not going to change anything.

 

[boedicca]

There are different ways to pay for infrastructure. It would be much more cost effective with improved quality accountability for infrastructure to be privatized and with usage based fees.

 

[Care4all]

but we already have "usage based fees" with the gas taxes that the Federal government and State gvts collect? only those who drive on the roads, supposedly pay for the roads. Maybe if our government wasn't using these fees for other purposes, we would have enough money for the upkeep of roads and bridges?

I don't know the amount that we collect each year off the top of my head...I am just saying, it shouldn't be spent on some special interest business's parking lot or a ramp off the highway to them, but on the actual highway.

 

[kiwiman127]

There are many forms of infrastructure, roads & bridges, power grids, drinking water system, waste system, airports, rail lines, gas & oil pipelines, etc.
Some of this infrastructure is owned by the private sector, ala gas lines and pipelines.
The infrastructure owned by the private sector is the responsibility of the private sector.
The rest is the responsibility of both the public and private sector.

 

[Vanquish]

I think a lot of people forget that the age 21 drinking laws are federally incentivized to the states. Meaning that states can technically HAVE a lower drinking age, but we tempt the states with money for infrastructure if they set it at 21.

 

[westwall]

Let's take a look at construction. In California (where I have friends in construction so can ask them how it all works) if a company wants to build a house they have to obtain a building permit before they can begin construction. This is in effect a tax in order to build. In most communities in the Bay Area that fee is around 30,000 dollars give or take a few thousand dollars.

That means before one shovel full of dirt the construction COMPANY has had to pay 30,000 dollars for the priviledge of building a house that some CITIZEN will then get to purchase and live in.

Often times the construction companies are also REQUIRED to build or improve infrastructure in areas that are not contiguous to the project, the communities love to mandate the companies build parks for the development they are buildning (most companies are happy to do that because it makes the development nicer anyway) but because the city leaders feel that it is not fair to their older sections of town, those construction companies are then required to build parks or other upgrades in older areas away from where they are building their project.

Then, during construction they pay wages, unemployment taxes, property taxes until they sell the property, sales taxes on the materials they use, etc. etc. etc. Then when they sell the property the city gets the proceeds from the sales tax there as well.

Regular companies that produce things also are taxed above what people are, they have to pay a excise tax (which is basically a tax for making things) for every product they manufacture so once again the total ignorance of the OP is exposed for all to see.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

Nobody wants to pay anything. Businesses don't want to pay. Citizens feel overtaxed. So what's going to happen when the roads fall apart and the bridges crumble?

They'll call it a "crisis" and use it to help get a BIG stimulus bill passed, which has funds earmarked to go to infrastructure only, providing millions of "shovel ready jobs." They will pass this without actually reading it, only to learn later it actually doesn't take care of the infrastructure problem at all!

Oh wait, this already happened!

 

[Vanquish]

The "passing without reading" idea gets a lot of play, but that was the fault of BOTH sides. Why you ask?

Well Cantor & Crew were bringing a brute force vote attack - saying we won't pass it or EVEN WORK ON IT with you..because we've got the votes. You can't fault Barry & Sons for responding back the same way. They got the brute force votes to win and Cantor lost.

When sides won't work together...it all boils down to numbers.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The interstate highway system was proposed as a national defense initiative. The commercial benefits are strictly coincidental.

That said all government services outside those specifically enumerated in the Constitution should be fee for use.

Every federal highway should be a toll road, for example.

The same should hold for state government services. If you have kids in school then you should pay for it; the more kids you have in public school the more taxes you pay just as those paying for private schools should not have to support public schools.

If you use town water and sewage you should pay, if you have your own well and septic system none of your tax dollars should pay for water or sewage treatment

In short everyone should pay their own way.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The whole post rests on a premise that there is some kind of difference between "business" and individuals. Like businesses are made up of Martians or something.
The truth is that people need jobs, goods and services that businesses provide. Gov't is not acting out of some kind of largesse but rather gets its revenue from business activity. Yet, and here is the subtext, how much benefit is there to anyone from studies about the snail darter? Or any of the thousands of stupid, pointless wastes of money that government does? None, except for those vested interests that continue to get gov't money.

The point is that businesses exploit the very things that give them the ability to create profit and jobs yet don't pay their fair share in taxes.

All you republicans say "You can't tax the job creators" yet they wouldn't have jobs to create if government didn't provide the infrastructure to have it in.

Logistics wouldn't exist without the FEDERAL INTERSTATE SYSTEM. What business would survive without Logistics? Not a single one.

So its time to pay your fair share and no bitching about it.

Stop already... this is ignorant beyond belief. You really need to educate yourself.

I was in the transportation business in a prior life... you have no fucking clue the taxes, fees and other monies paid for the luxury of using the ill-maintained roads you so lovingly speak of.

 

[The Rabbi]

The "passing without reading" idea gets a lot of play, but that was the fault of BOTH sides. Why you ask?

Well Cantor & Crew were bringing a brute force vote attack - saying we won't pass it or EVEN WORK ON IT with you..because we've got the votes. You can't fault Barry & Sons for responding back the same way. They got the brute force votes to win and Cantor lost.

When sides won't work together...it all boils down to numbers.

"Both sides" passed Obamacare? Hello? There wasn't a single GOP vote on the thing. The Democrats were in charge from Day 1 of the Obama Administration. They violated numerous promises they had made about legislative procedure to get all this mess done. They could easily have done it differently. But had they given people time to look at the bills and ask questions, no one in his right mind would have voted for them.
And that was the point.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The "passing without reading" idea gets a lot of play, but that was the fault of BOTH sides. Why you ask?

I didn't ask. And actually, some congresscritters DID read the bill, but the alarm bells they rang went virtually ignored.

 

[Care4all]

The interstate highway system was proposed as a national defense initiative. The commercial benefits are strictly coincidental.

That said all government services outside those specifically enumerated in the Constitution should be fee for use.

Every federal highway should be a toll road, for example.

The same should hold for state government services. If you have kids in school then you should pay for it; the more kids you have in public school the more taxes you pay just as those paying for private schools should not have to support public schools.

If you use town water and sewage you should pay, if you have your own well and septic system none of your tax dollars should pay for water or sewage treatment

In short everyone should pay their own way.

I'd agree with the highway part, ONLY IF THE GAS TAXES were removed. We shouldn't have to pay for it TWICE.

 

[boedicca]

The "passing without reading" idea gets a lot of play, but that was the fault of BOTH sides. Why you ask?

Well Cantor & Crew were bringing a brute force vote attack - saying we won't pass it or EVEN WORK ON IT with you..because we've got the votes. You can't fault Barry & Sons for responding back the same way. They got the brute force votes to win and Cantor lost.

When sides won't work together...it all boils down to numbers.

Were you in a coma last year?

 

[WillowTree]

Who do you believe benefits the most from what this country provides?
Who should pay for the things that our country provides which I myself think that Business needs, in order to make profits. and then all the things that have to be looked after to make sure business is not doing us harm or selling us short.

From Schools to colleges to highways to airports and sea ports and all parts of our govt that has to oversea what happens. Who should pay for these things?

Well, once you decide that only certain people should pay for them then you must decide then that only certain people own them. Once they own them they can charge you who did not pay for them a price to use them Capiche?