Who Pays the Taxes? Who Should?

[Claudette]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Zzzzz.

I'd take the time to respond to this and debunk everything you believe in, but we both know you have little interest in being rational.

Bullshit there RD.

Apparantly the only rational thoughts your interested in are your own.

Thats okay though. I respect your opinion. Just don't happen to believe in it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

A direct tax on labor is borderline criminal... the government says "ya wanna earn a living? You have to give us our cut"

Bullshit.

 

[Claudette]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Yup, blame the people who follow the law instead of the flawed system. Sounds reasonable.

I agree that the system is flawed, Amy, but Claudette wasn't blaming the people. She WAS blaming a system that allows half of the people to suffer no consequences from tax increases,but having ability to vote for people who will raise other people's taxes but not theirs. That is fundamentally wrong on the face of it, and nothing good can possibly come from it.

Yup. Thanks FF.

When you have no skin in the game you could care less. As long as your needs are met you really don't care who's paying the freight.

 

[RDD_1210]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Zzzzz.

I'd take the time to respond to this and debunk everything you believe in, but we both know you have little interest in being rational.

Bullshit there RD.

Apparantly the only rational thoughts your interested in are your own.

Thats okay though. I respect your opinion. Just don't happen to believe in it.

I am interested in all opinions, however the last time we talked it was going well seemingly, but then you basically ended it by saying....I don't care anyway, I'm going to continue to believe what I want to believe.

 

[RDD_1210]

Yup, blame the people who follow the law instead of the flawed system. Sounds reasonable.

I agree that the system is flawed, Amy, but Claudette wasn't blaming the people. She WAS blaming a system that allows half of the people to suffer no consequences from tax increases,but having ability to vote for people who will raise other people's taxes but not theirs. That is fundamentally wrong on the face of it, and nothing good can possibly come from it.

Yup. Thanks FF.

When you have no skin in the game you could care less. As long as your needs are met you really don't care who's paying the freight.

So federal income tax is the only tax that matters?

 

[Steelplate]

How about we call all our "Free Trade" partners out on the carpet and DEMAND reciprocity and eliminate the damn near $1T yearly trade deficit that we have?

Perhaps if we weren't playing with one hand tied behind our backs, these tax threads wouldn't even need to exist.

I mean damn... we play fair....averaging about 1.3% tariffs on goods coming into our country.....and we can't sell most of our shit abroad because once you add their fees and tariffs...we can't compete.....

Or, maybe we should just charge their countries whatever rate they're charging us?

What do you recommend, specifically? More tariffs?

Can you back up your claim that the reason we import more than we export is "their fees and tariffs"? Could the cost to produce in America have something to do with it?

Oh...yeah. labor rates of.$.50-1.00/hr is huge too. I said the recommendations....either be reciprocal with us, or we will do the exact same thing you are doing with us....BTW, if it's the fist of production that's the issue, why do our trading partners charge us up to 35% where we charge the 1.3%

Is this some kind of foreign aid welfare package?

 

[AmyNation]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Yup, blame the people who follow the law instead of the flawed system. Sounds reasonable.

I agree that the system is flawed, Amy, but Claudette wasn't blaming the people. She WAS blaming a system that allows half of the people to suffer no consequences from tax increases,but having ability to vote for people who will raise other people's taxes but not theirs. That is fundamentally wrong on the face of it, and nothing good can possibly come from it.

Nonsense. She was throwing down the tired meme of half the nation being leeches on society.

Im sure she defends mitt romneys right to use loopholes to pay 9% in taxes, but when the poor use loopholes they must be "sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto. "

 

[rightwinger]

One way to ‘see’ the distribution of wealth in the U.S. is to imagine a group of 100 people who have a $100 between them. Evenly distributed each would have one dollar of wealth. Alas, that is far from the actual distribution. According to the most recent study, Currents and Undercurrents, by the Survey of Consumer Finance wealth is distributed accordingly:

50 individuals at the bottom have a nickel. ($0.05 times 50 = $2.50)

The next 40 each have $0.70 of wealth (40 times $0.70 - $28.00).

The next 9 each have $4.00 of wealth (nine times $4.00 = $36.00)

The last richest individual has $33.40 (one time $33.40).



Read more: See the Distribution of Wealth in US (McCain, Obama, cost) - Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - City-Data Forum


The response from our Republican Party is we obviously need to increase taxes on those Americans that have a nickel

Or as Mitt Romney would call them.....The 47%

 

[there4eyeM]

Adam Smith - "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

Flat tax means regressive taxation, with the poor paying an even greater support for the rich.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.

 

[kwc57]

I like The Fair Tax

Americans For Fair Taxation

 

[Foxfyre]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

Never in the history of the USA has there been a tax on wealth. Why do you think it necessary to start taxing wealth now? And how do you square that with property rights being included in our unalienable rights protected by the Constitution?

The point being is we need to look at how much money the rich are earning and compare that to what % of that is being taxed and compare that with how much money the poor and middle class are earning and what % are they paying. Wages for the poor and middle class have been stagnant while the rich have generally become richer. All the while the rich have seen their tax burden drop. So yes, the rich are paying a lions share of the taxes in this country which would look unfair if you look at that single aspect in a silo. However, you need to consider that they are paying more because they are earning more, while the middle class and poor are not.

The earnings are posted right there on the data in the opening post.

Citizen A educated himself, stayed off drugs, didn't have kids outside of marriage and before he/she could support them, who learned a trade, and qualified himself/herself to acquire wealth and make himself/herself prosperous. He/she has returned a good deal to the economy including opportunity for many others to earn a living and acquire wealth.

Citizen B who didn't do any of those things and therefore has prospered much less and returns very little to the economy. In fact, if it wasnt for Citizen A, Citizen B would likely live in abject poverty and/or starve.

Please provide a rationale for why Citizen A should pay a much larger proportionate share of his earnings than Citizen B should pay.

 

[AmyNation]

I like The Fair Tax

Americans For Fair Taxation

That looks very interesting.

 

[Steelplate]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.

I use that as my sigline

 

[Foxfyre]

I like The Fair Tax

Americans For Fair Taxation

I thought about including the Fair Tax among the options, but so few undestand it and any form of value added tax administered by the federal government bothers me. How many of us are old enough to remember when there was no sales tax. But we didn't mind so much when a tiny sales tax was added to most products we buy because we didn't notice the small difference in prices so much. And we don't notice the quarter cent increments added on for the same reason. Until one day we realize that beginng half cent tax or whatever has grown to 8 cents to 10 cents or more on almost every dollar we spend. But I;m glad you brought it up under the 'other' option.

I shudder to think how a greedy Congress and federal bureaucracy with strong motives to use our money to increase their own personal power, influence, and wealth would find reasons to manipulate a fair tax system by granting so many deductions and exemptions and advantages to special interest groups that it would quickly become unrecognizable. I can see the tax code becoming more a nightmare than it already is not to mention incremental tax creep.

A flat tax system that would be applied uniformly across the entire population would be much more difficult to manipulate because every constituency would experience the effects of tax increases or tax reductions. And that is the way it should be in an honest and explicitly fair system.

 

[bripat9643]

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.

I use that as my sigline

Lincoln got it from Karl Marx. No one is surprised that you think it's the ultimate wisdom.

 

[AmyNation]

I like the flat tax for anyone living above the poverty line. However I don't see it ever happening, as both parties and special interests benefit from the current tax code and all the bloat that goes with it.

 

[bripat9643]

I like The Fair Tax

Americans For Fair Taxation

I thought about including the Fair Tax among the options, but so few undestand it and any form of value added tax administered by the federal government bothers me. How many of us are old enough to remember when there was no sales tax. But we didn't mind so much when a tiny sales tax was added to most products we buy because we didn't notice the small difference in prices so much. And we don't notice the quarter cent increments added on for the same reason. Until one day we realize that beginng half cent tax or whatever has grown to 8 cents to 10 cents or more on almost every dollar we spend. But I;m glad you brought it up under the 'other' option.

I shudder to think how a greedy Congress and federal bureaucracy with strong motives to use our money to increase their own personal power, influence, and wealth would find reasons to manipulate a fair tax system by granting so many deductions and exemptions and advantages to special interest groups that it would quickly become unrecognizable. I can see the tax code becoming more a nightmare than it already is not to mention incremental tax creep.

A flat tax system that would be applied uniformly across the entire population would be much more difficult to manipulate because every constituency would experience the effects of tax increases or tax reductions. And that is the way it should be in an honest and explicitly fair system.

How do you grant exemptions to the fair tax? If you buy a car or a can of beans, you pay the tax. Also, it's not a Value Add Tax. It's a sales tax. The tax is show right on your sales receipt, not hidden in the price of the good.

 

[catzmeow]

Here’s the problem as I see it:

Who is paying the income taxes in the USA? Among all Americans:

Top 1%
AGI earnings: $343,927 and over
% of all income taxes paid: 36.73

Top 5%
AGI earnings: $154,643
% of all income taxes paid: 58.66

Top 10%
AGI earnings: $112,124
% of income taxes paid: 70.47

Top 25%
AGI earnings: $66,193
% of income taxes paid: 87.30

Top 50%
AGI earnings: $32,396
% of income taxes paid: 97.75

Bottom 50%
AGI earnings: below $32,396
% of income taxes paid: 2.25

People in all of the above brackets pay payroll taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, and sin taxes. Why have you selected only income taxes to bitch about?

 

[Foxfyre]

I like The Fair Tax

Americans For Fair Taxation

I thought about including the Fair Tax among the options, but so few undestand it and any form of value added tax administered by the federal government bothers me. How many of us are old enough to remember when there was no sales tax. But we didn't mind so much when a tiny sales tax was added to most products we buy because we didn't notice the small difference in prices so much. And we don't notice the quarter cent increments added on for the same reason. Until one day we realize that beginng half cent tax or whatever has grown to 8 cents to 10 cents or more on almost every dollar we spend. But I;m glad you brought it up under the 'other' option.

I shudder to think how a greedy Congress and federal bureaucracy with strong motives to use our money to increase their own personal power, influence, and wealth would find reasons to manipulate a fair tax system by granting so many deductions and exemptions and advantages to special interest groups that it would quickly become unrecognizable. I can see the tax code becoming more a nightmare than it already is not to mention incremental tax creep.

A flat tax system that would be applied uniformly across the entire population would be much more difficult to manipulate because every constituency would experience the effects of tax increases or tax reductions. And that is the way it should be in an honest and explicitly fair system.

How do you grant exemptions to the fair tax? If you buy a car or a can of beans, you pay the tax. Also, it's not a Value Add Tax. It's a sales tax. The tax is show right on your sales receipt, not hidden in the price of the good.

You give exemptions by allowing certain demographics to deduct the tax or submit proof of expenditure for reimbursement or issue them special cards to show so that the tax would not be applied at the time of purchase. And yes, every tax that is based on price of an item at the time of purchase is a value added tax whether it is on your phone bill or utility bill or paid when you buy your new car or that can of beans. A value tax system is something different as it is applied all along the chain of production as well as retail, but the principle is the same.