Who Pays the Taxes? Who Should?

[Foxfyre]

According to some polls, most Americans think the rich—several among the top 5% and all in the top 1%-- should be required to pay more.
Most Americans say rich should pay more taxes, according to new survey - CBS News

So what do you think?

Here’s the problem as I see it:

Who is paying the federal income taxes in the USA? Among all Americans:

Top 1%
AGI earnings: $343,927 and over
% of all income taxes paid: 36.73

Top 5%
AGI earnings: $154,643
% of all income taxes paid: 58.66

Top 10%
AGI earnings: $112,124
% of income taxes paid: 70.47

Top 25%
AGI earnings: $66,193
% of income taxes paid: 87.30

Top 50%
AGI earnings: $32,396
% of income taxes paid: 97.75

Bottom 50%
AGI earnings: below $32,396
% of income taxes paid: 2.25

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?

President Obama wants the rich to pay more. Challenger Romney wants lower taxes for at least the middle class.

Are they both right? One more right than the other? Both wrong?

Please read the following explanation:

Economics of Beer Drinking​

Ten guys who were friends met at the local neighborhood bar to have a beer or two every Friday. They agree to pay the $100 bill in the same way they paid their income taxes.

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.00
The sixth would pay $3.00
The seventh would pay $7.00
The eighth would pay $12.00
The ninth would pay $18.00
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.00
Using this system, the men drank in the bar every Friday with no complaints until the owner threw them a curve..

"Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to give you a discount and your bill will be $80.00 instead of $100.”

They couldn’t divide the discount equally as that would be $3.33 each which would mean six of them would get paid to drink beer. So the bar owner, something of a mathematician figured it out roughly by percentages according to what each had been paying.

Now the fifth man joined the first four and paid nothing. A 100% savings for the fifth man.
The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3. (33% savings)
The seventh man now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings)
The eight man now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings)
The ninth man now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings)
The tenth man now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings)

Each of the bottom four still enjoyed the benefit of paying nothing and every one of the other six was better off than before.

But the fifth man began to compare savings and complained that he only got $1 of the $20 discount while the tenth man got $10. That wasn’t fair. And the others also noticed that they got less of a discount than the tenth man and began to angry. Why should the richest guy get the biggest break? And the bottom four joined in the protest: “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor.”

And they ganged up on the richest guy and accused him of all sorts of privilege and excess and greed and plotted how to get him to pay more of the bill.

The next Friday the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible

(teaching attributed to) David R. Kamerschen, PH. D
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Who should? Nobody.

 

[RDD_1210]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

 

[Foxfyre]

Who should? Nobody.

There are some legitimate functions of government that do require some funding. I intended to include a poll with the thread but failed to check the right box to get one in place. The poll options would have been:

What is your preference for a federal tax system?

1. Do away with income and business taxes and go to a fee system.
2. The rich should pay more.
3. Keep the system as it is now.
4. Lower taxes for all.
5. A flat tax for all.
6. Other and I'll specify in my post.

 

[Foxfyre]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

Never in the history of the USA has there been a tax on wealth. Why do you think it necessary to start taxing wealth now? And how do you square that with property rights being included in our unalienable rights protected by the Constitution?

 

[WillowTree]

Who should? Nobody.

There are some legitimate functions of government that do require some funding. I intended to include a poll with the thread but failed to check the right box to get one in place. The poll options would have been:

What is your preference for a federal tax system?

1. Do away with income and business taxes and go to a fee system.
2. The rich should pay more.
3. Keep the system as it is now.
4. Lower taxes for all.
5. A flat tax for all.
6. Other and I'll specify in my post.

No. five is the way to go, ends class warfare for ever. Fair flat tax. No execptions, no exemptions. no excuses.

 

[Claudette]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

 

[Newby]

Who should? Nobody.

There are some legitimate functions of government that do require some funding. I intended to include a poll with the thread but failed to check the right box to get one in place. The poll options would have been:

What is your preference for a federal tax system?

1. Do away with income and business taxes and go to a fee system.
2. The rich should pay more.
3. Keep the system as it is now.
4. Lower taxes for all.
5. A flat tax for all.
6. Other and I'll specify in my post.

Added it for you.

 

[rightwinger]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

Never in the history of the USA has there been a tax on wealth. Why do you think it necessary to start taxing wealth now? And how do you square that with property rights being included in our unalienable rights protected by the Constitution?

OK, how about you include the income of those groups so we can see how much they pay compared to how much they earn?

 

[RDD_1210]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

Never in the history of the USA has there been a tax on wealth. Why do you think it necessary to start taxing wealth now? And how do you square that with property rights being included in our unalienable rights protected by the Constitution?

The point being is we need to look at how much money the rich are earning and compare that to what % of that is being taxed and compare that with how much money the poor and middle class are earning and what % are they paying. Wages for the poor and middle class have been stagnant while the rich have generally become richer. All the while the rich have seen their tax burden drop. So yes, the rich are paying a lions share of the taxes in this country which would look unfair if you look at that single aspect in a silo. However, you need to consider that they are paying more because they are earning more, while the middle class and poor are not.

 

[eflatminor]

America has the most progressive tax rates in the world.

Of course, if the government lived within the Constitution, there would be no need for an income tax on anybody. Income is at best theft. Think about it and you'll realize forcing some men to labor on the behalf of others is slavery. I thought we outlawed that? No?

 

[RDD_1210]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Zzzzz.

I'd take the time to respond to this and debunk everything you believe in, but we both know you have little interest in being rational.

 

[Steelplate]

How about we call all our "Free Trade" partners out on the carpet and DEMAND reciprocity and eliminate the damn near $1T yearly trade deficit that we have?

Perhaps if we weren't playing with one hand tied behind our backs, these tax threads wouldn't even need to exist.

I mean damn... we play fair....averaging about 1.3% tariffs on goods coming into our country.....and we can't sell most of our shit abroad because once you add their fees and tariffs...we can't compete.....

Or, maybe we should just charge their countries whatever rate they're charging us?

 

[AmyNation]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Yup, blame the people who follow the law instead of the flawed system. Sounds reasonable.

 

[Steelplate]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Look....We've been through this shit before...they do have skin in the game. They just pay ONE of many federal taxes that you and I don't.

 

[Foxfyre]

Who should? Nobody.

There are some legitimate functions of government that do require some funding. I intended to include a poll with the thread but failed to check the right box to get one in place. The poll options would have been:

What is your preference for a federal tax system?

1. Do away with income and business taxes and go to a fee system.
2. The rich should pay more.
3. Keep the system as it is now.
4. Lower taxes for all.
5. A flat tax for all.
6. Other and I'll specify in my post.

Added it for you.

Thanks so much Newby. (I think I love you.)

 

[Foxfyre]

Don't you think it would be important to include a look at what % of wealth those groups hold compared with the tax %?

Did that thought never cross your mind?

Never in the history of the USA has there been a tax on wealth. Why do you think it necessary to start taxing wealth now? And how do you square that with property rights being included in our unalienable rights protected by the Constitution?

OK, how about you include the income of those groups so we can see how much they pay compared to how much they earn?

The income ranges are there. Try reading the OP.

 

[Newby]

There are some legitimate functions of government that do require some funding. I intended to include a poll with the thread but failed to check the right box to get one in place. The poll options would have been:

What is your preference for a federal tax system?

1. Do away with income and business taxes and go to a fee system.
2. The rich should pay more.
3. Keep the system as it is now.
4. Lower taxes for all.
5. A flat tax for all.
6. Other and I'll specify in my post.

Added it for you.

Thanks so much Newby. (I think I love you.)

Well, one can never get enough love!

 

[eflatminor]

How about we call all our "Free Trade" partners out on the carpet and DEMAND reciprocity and eliminate the damn near $1T yearly trade deficit that we have?

Perhaps if we weren't playing with one hand tied behind our backs, these tax threads wouldn't even need to exist.

I mean damn... we play fair....averaging about 1.3% tariffs on goods coming into our country.....and we can't sell most of our shit abroad because once you add their fees and tariffs...we can't compete.....

Or, maybe we should just charge their countries whatever rate they're charging us?

What do you recommend, specifically? More tariffs?

Can you back up your claim that the reason we import more than we export is "their fees and tariffs"? Could the cost to produce in America have something to do with it?

 

[Foxfyre]

Does anyone think folks are going to demand that their traxes be raised??

Hell No. Everyone but them should have to pay more taxes.

Also might me nice if that 49% who pay no Fed taxes had some skin in the game. After all they have no problem sucking up Welfare, tax breaks, EIC and any other freebie money they can glom onto.

Might be nice if they payed something into the kitty to run the country. They have no problem taking just a big problem supporting.

Yup, blame the people who follow the law instead of the flawed system. Sounds reasonable.

I agree that the system is flawed, Amy, but Claudette wasn't blaming the people. She WAS blaming a system that allows half of the people to suffer no consequences from tax increases,but having ability to vote for people who will raise other people's taxes but not theirs. That is fundamentally wrong on the face of it, and nothing good can possibly come from it.