Who owns or is planning to own a chevrolet volt?

[martinjlm]

Wow! Even Fox News had a few good words for Volt....(checks calendar....nope, not April 1st)

Chevy Volt sales double in March | Fox News

 

[westwall]

Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting. First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product. It is. Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas. It does. Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive. Not much. Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore". The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.

Now it's whether or not there's enough lithium in China (oops...China isn't relevant...ok...the world) to sustain production. Two things here.....

ONE: Similar to oil, coal, neodymium, dysprosium, magnesium, palladium, platinum, and every other mined resource that is used in the content and/or manufacturing processes of ALL motor vehicles, the health of the "supply" depends on whether you are aligned with the buyers, producers, or consumers of the commodity and how hard it is to acquire the next level of supply.

TWO: There is lots of lithium in ocean beds. Just like there's oil off shore. At what point is it worth pursuing? Thing is, lithium is used in much smaller amounts per vehicle than oil and because it is not consumed in the combustion process it doesn't need to be replenished every several days in millions of vehicles.

If what you are saying is true why aren't the cars flying off the lots? If what you are saying is true, the public would be buying them faster than they could be made.

I'll assume that by "the cars" you mean the Chevrolet Volt. They are selling at pretty much the expected rate. The plant was originally intended to produce about 30-35,000 per year. The number was increased to around 60,000 to account for additional sales of the Opel Ampera in Europe. BTW....Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera were recently named 2012 European Car of the Year. First time ever for an American car. Chevrolet Volt Named European Car of the Year | Autopia | Wired.com But I digress...back to your question...

Since the plant was temporarily idled then restarted, Volts have been selling very well. About 2,400 sold in March. April is not over yet, but it is expected to do even better in April. In March, only the Prius outsold the Volt in the category of hybrid and/or electric vehicles. In other words, Volt outsold Civic Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid, Sonata Hybrid, Escape Hybrid, Nissan Leaf (which also gets a $7,500 tax credit....why no conversation on that?). Volt has a sticker price higher than all of these vehicles, yet it outsold all of them and appears to be gaining momentum.

That answer your question?

This is how many regular (best sellers in class) cars sold in March in 2011 and 2012. Four of the cars sold TEN TIMES the number EACH. And you think 2,700 cars in a month is good? Nice to know your expectations are so low. You must work for Chevy.



Ford Focus

28,293

17,178

64.7



Toyota Corolla

28,289

30,234

-6.4



Honda Civic

28,199

31,213

-10.7



Chevrolet Cruze

21,607

18,018

19.9



Hyundai Elantra

19,681

19,255

2.2



Volkswagen Jetta

14,966

16,969

-11.8



Nissan Sentra

14,092

17,851

-21.1



Mazda3

13,235

12,467

6.2





Read more: Ford Focus Inches Out Toyota Corolla For Compact Sales Win in March - WOT on Motor Trend

 

[westwall]

Unfortunate that the "argument" keeps shifting. First it was a question of whether the car is a viable product. It is. Then it was a question of whether or not the car saves gas. It does. Then it was a question of how much incremental electric supply cost does it drive. Not much. Then it was "gee, they shut the plant down so they must not be making them anymore". The plant is back up, March was the best sales month since the car launched and April is on track to be better.

Now it's whether or not there's enough lithium in China (oops...China isn't relevant...ok...the world) to sustain production. Two things here.....

ONE: Similar to oil, coal, neodymium, dysprosium, magnesium, palladium, platinum, and every other mined resource that is used in the content and/or manufacturing processes of ALL motor vehicles, the health of the "supply" depends on whether you are aligned with the buyers, producers, or consumers of the commodity and how hard it is to acquire the next level of supply.

TWO: There is lots of lithium in ocean beds. Just like there's oil off shore. At what point is it worth pursuing? Thing is, lithium is used in much smaller amounts per vehicle than oil and because it is not consumed in the combustion process it doesn't need to be replenished every several days in millions of vehicles.

Interesting point, how much lithium is in the seawater itself?

I don't think it is in the seawater. I think it is in the mineral deposits in the ocean floor. Could be wrong on this. It was info I came across a while ago while looking for something else.

Yes, it is in the sea water as are almost all the other elements.

Li is at around 0.170 ppm at 3.5% salinity.

 

[martinjlm]

If what you are saying is true why aren't the cars flying off the lots? If what you are saying is true, the public would be buying them faster than they could be made.

I'll assume that by "the cars" you mean the Chevrolet Volt. They are selling at pretty much the expected rate. The plant was originally intended to produce about 30-35,000 per year. The number was increased to around 60,000 to account for additional sales of the Opel Ampera in Europe. BTW....Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera were recently named 2012 European Car of the Year. First time ever for an American car. Chevrolet Volt Named European Car of the Year | Autopia | Wired.com But I digress...back to your question...

Since the plant was temporarily idled then restarted, Volts have been selling very well. About 2,400 sold in March. April is not over yet, but it is expected to do even better in April. In March, only the Prius outsold the Volt in the category of hybrid and/or electric vehicles. In other words, Volt outsold Civic Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid, Sonata Hybrid, Escape Hybrid, Nissan Leaf (which also gets a $7,500 tax credit....why no conversation on that?). Volt has a sticker price higher than all of these vehicles, yet it outsold all of them and appears to be gaining momentum.

That answer your question?

This is how many regular (best sellers in class) cars sold in March in 2011 and 2012. Four of the cars sold TEN TIMES the number EACH. And you think 2,700 cars in a month is good? Nice to know your expectations are so low. You must work for Chevy.



Ford Focus

28,293

17,178

64.7



Toyota Corolla

28,289

30,234

-6.4



Honda Civic

28,199

31,213

-10.7



Chevrolet Cruze

21,607

18,018

19.9



Hyundai Elantra

19,681

19,255

2.2



Volkswagen Jetta

14,966

16,969

-11.8



Nissan Sentra

14,092

17,851

-21.1



Mazda3

13,235

12,467

6.2





Read more: Ford Focus Inches Out Toyota Corolla For Compact Sales Win in March - WOT on Motor Trend

The Chevy Volt was never intended to win the sales volume crown. It has a specific part of the market, just as the Chevrolet Corvette (which the Volt outsold) and the Nissan 370Z (which the Volt outsold) have specific targeted customer bases. Nobody's talking about canceling those car programs because they were outsold by Volt. Just like nobody is talking about canceling Volt because Corolla sells more. If you've been reading my posts (apparently you have) you would notice that I've pointed out that the MOST Volt was ever expecting to sell globally (they sell in China and under 3 different brands in Europe, Chevy, Opel, and Vauxhall) is 60,000. Meaning there was obviously not an intent to sell more than more mainstream products.

FWIW....I do not work for Chevrolet....I do work in the auto industry....I am acquainted with a number of people on the Volt program. And many other vehicle programs for that matter. Volt is just my favorite among the many and I understand and appreciate the product enough to put my money on one.

 

[martinjlm]

Interesting point, how much lithium is in the seawater itself?

I don't think it is in the seawater. I think it is in the mineral deposits in the ocean floor. Could be wrong on this. It was info I came across a while ago while looking for something else.

Yes, it is in the sea water as are almost all the other elements.

Li is at around 0.170 ppm at 3.5% salinity.

The lithium that would be harvested is in the mineral deposits in the ocean beds. Since water is a perfect solvent, the lithium in the seawater is a direct result of natural erosion of the lithium in the ocean bed. This is like saying that the reason there is some light in the bedroom is the fact that the closet light was left on. The light source is in the closet (ocean bed). Evidence that it is there is the presence of trace amounts of light (lithium) in the bedroom (seawater).

 

[westwall]

I don't think it is in the seawater. I think it is in the mineral deposits in the ocean floor. Could be wrong on this. It was info I came across a while ago while looking for something else.

Yes, it is in the sea water as are almost all the other elements.

Li is at around 0.170 ppm at 3.5% salinity.

The lithium that would be harvested is in the mineral deposits in the ocean beds. Since water is a perfect solvent, the lithium in the seawater is a direct result of natural erosion of the lithium in the ocean bed. This is like saying that the reason there is some light in the bedroom is the fact that the closet light was left on. The light source is in the closet (ocean bed). Evidence that it is there is the presence of trace amounts of light (lithium) in the bedroom (seawater).

You need to take some science classes my friend. The ocean floor is made of mud that has been deposited over millions of years from continental runoff. There are exceptions such as the mineral deposits around black smokers and the like but those are very localised, and of course the Mid Atlantic Ridge and other volcanic plate boundaries will also have localised mineral deposits.

But, the majority of minerals found in the deep sea (such as the manganese nodules) were accreted from the ocean water around a seed of some sort and then deposited on the ocean floor.

 

[westwall]

I'll assume that by "the cars" you mean the Chevrolet Volt. They are selling at pretty much the expected rate. The plant was originally intended to produce about 30-35,000 per year. The number was increased to around 60,000 to account for additional sales of the Opel Ampera in Europe. BTW....Chevrolet Volt and Opel Ampera were recently named 2012 European Car of the Year. First time ever for an American car. Chevrolet Volt Named European Car of the Year | Autopia | Wired.com But I digress...back to your question...

Since the plant was temporarily idled then restarted, Volts have been selling very well. About 2,400 sold in March. April is not over yet, but it is expected to do even better in April. In March, only the Prius outsold the Volt in the category of hybrid and/or electric vehicles. In other words, Volt outsold Civic Hybrid, Fusion Hybrid, Sonata Hybrid, Escape Hybrid, Nissan Leaf (which also gets a $7,500 tax credit....why no conversation on that?). Volt has a sticker price higher than all of these vehicles, yet it outsold all of them and appears to be gaining momentum.

That answer your question?

This is how many regular (best sellers in class) cars sold in March in 2011 and 2012. Four of the cars sold TEN TIMES the number EACH. And you think 2,700 cars in a month is good? Nice to know your expectations are so low. You must work for Chevy.



Ford Focus

28,293

17,178

64.7



Toyota Corolla

28,289

30,234

-6.4



Honda Civic

28,199

31,213

-10.7



Chevrolet Cruze

21,607

18,018

19.9



Hyundai Elantra

19,681

19,255

2.2



Volkswagen Jetta

14,966

16,969

-11.8



Nissan Sentra

14,092

17,851

-21.1



Mazda3

13,235

12,467

6.2





Read more: Ford Focus Inches Out Toyota Corolla For Compact Sales Win in March - WOT on Motor Trend

The Chevy Volt was never intended to win the sales volume crown. It has a specific part of the market, just as the Chevrolet Corvette (which the Volt outsold) and the Nissan 370Z (which the Volt outsold) have specific targeted customer bases. Nobody's talking about canceling those car programs because they were outsold by Volt. Just like nobody is talking about canceling Volt because Corolla sells more. If you've been reading my posts (apparently you have) you would notice that I've pointed out that the MOST Volt was ever expecting to sell globally (they sell in China and under 3 different brands in Europe, Chevy, Opel, and Vauxhall) is 60,000. Meaning there was obviously not an intent to sell more than more mainstream products.

FWIW....I do not work for Chevrolet....I do work in the auto industry....I am acquainted with a number of people on the Volt program. And many other vehicle programs for that matter. Volt is just my favorite among the many and I understand and appreciate the product enough to put my money on one.

The yearly average production of the Corvette is around 40k. The average yearly production of the 370Z is unknown, the total US production for 2009 was only 524 (total sales for all Z models in 2009 was a little over 13,000) so I would hope a full production car would outsell a very limited production model. I also love how you are comparing an Edsel (basically) with a rocket ship. The Volt is a low speed family car, the Z series and the Vette are rated to 200 mph+ and are targeted at a very select clientele as you noted.

And, lets look at the real reason the Volt's sales are as high as they ended up......GE is ordering 25,000 of them for it's fleet of company owned vehicles. So the UAW (which is a majority share holder in GM now) whines to Obama about how they are losing their ass, so Obama tells his buddies at GE (who donated loads to his campaign and surprise surprise paid no corporate tax last year...or the year before) are "encouraged" to buy the Volt to help bolster its sales figures.

Oh, yeah, i forgot to mention the Feds are buying them too. Originally the first 100, now more are in the pipeline.

Yep, no collusion or waste of taxpayer dollars there.

GE to buy 25K electric fleet vehicles – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

 

[RGR]

The Volt is a low speed family car.......

Yeah, and at low speeds of 80mph, the thing is GREAT! Like a Vette on public roads is really what the average commuter needs to get to and from work?

And at low speeds of 80mph, the Volt is amazingly quiet. Admittedly, it only fits 4 people and doesn't require $4/gal gas for the commuting 75% of Americans do, but given the choice between it and a Vette, I say get both! One for doing all the real world, grocery getting, commuting, running errands which can all be done on electrical power, and save the Vette for track days on the weekends! WOOT!

 

[westwall]

The Volt is a low speed family car.......

Yeah, and at low speeds of 80mph, the thing is GREAT! Like a Vette on public roads is really what the average commuter needs to get to and from work?

And at low speeds of 80mph, the Volt is amazingly quiet. Admittedly, it only fits 4 people and doesn't require $4/gal gas for the commuting 75% of Americans do, but given the choice between it and a Vette, I say get both! One for doing all the real world, grocery getting, commuting, running errands which can all be done on electrical power, and save the Vette for track days on the weekends! WOOT!

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

 

[martinjlm]

The Volt is a low speed family car.......

Yeah, and at low speeds of 80mph, the thing is GREAT! Like a Vette on public roads is really what the average commuter needs to get to and from work?

And at low speeds of 80mph, the Volt is amazingly quiet. Admittedly, it only fits 4 people and doesn't require $4/gal gas for the commuting 75% of Americans do, but given the choice between it and a Vette, I say get both! One for doing all the real world, grocery getting, commuting, running errands which can all be done on electrical power, and save the Vette for track days on the weekends! WOOT!

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

 

[westwall]

Yeah, and at low speeds of 80mph, the thing is GREAT! Like a Vette on public roads is really what the average commuter needs to get to and from work?

And at low speeds of 80mph, the Volt is amazingly quiet. Admittedly, it only fits 4 people and doesn't require $4/gal gas for the commuting 75% of Americans do, but given the choice between it and a Vette, I say get both! One for doing all the real world, grocery getting, commuting, running errands which can all be done on electrical power, and save the Vette for track days on the weekends! WOOT!

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

Who has been trying to force you to buy an electric car?

 

[martinjlm]

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

Quote from any of my posts where I did. Shouldn't be that tough. I only have about 25 posts. Half of them correcting your erroneous "facts".

BTW - I give you credit for correctly referring to it as an electric car. I'm constantly surprised at how so many people think it's a hybrid.

 

[Old Rocks]

For one third the price of the Volt I can get a real nice turbo diesel that gets 68 mpg and over the life of both cars (which is basically unlimited with the TDI assuming regular maintenance) I will save more than 5 times as much with the diesel as I would with the Volt. In point of fact, as the Volt will maximum last 8 years with normal usage it will never pay itself off unless gasoline gets to around 12 bucks a gallon.

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

Nobody is trying to force you to buy an electric, dumb ass. At some point, as the battery technology improves, it will simply make more sense economically to buy one. Particularly if one generates their own electricity.

 

[Katzndogz]

The electric cars of the future will generate their own electricity from unicorn scat.

 

[westwall]

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

Quote from any of my posts where I did. Shouldn't be that tough. I only have about 25 posts. Half of them correcting your erroneous "facts".

BTW - I give you credit for correctly referring to it as an electric car. I'm constantly surprised at how so many people think it's a hybrid.

You havn't. And for that I thank you. However, you benefit from the largesse of the taxpayers. I would love it if the taxpayers were free from giving their money to anybody. No corporation or business entity should recieve taxpayer monies save in very specific and extreme circumstances.

 

[westwall]

And I would not criticize you if you did. I would be happy for you if you enjoyed it. Now let me and the other people who understand the car enjoy our Volts without having to deal with you distorting the facts around a car that we have real world experience with everyday.

Happily! However, stop trying to force me and mine into buying your electric cars. Deal?

Who has been trying to force you to buy an electric car?

When something is desired mandates are not needed. Are they.

"SAN FRANCISCO – Seeking to influence other states and Washington, California air regulators passed sweeping auto emission standards Friday that include a mandate to have 1.4 million electric and hybrid vehicles on state roads by 2025."

Read more: California passes sweeping auto emission standards | Fox News