Who or what do you believe is the Antichrist...and why?

[Youwerecreated]

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."

Are you saying that he who denies Christ would be anti-Christ, or he who stands in opposition to his teachings?

I'm just wondering if you and I are thinking along the same lines.

I say both.

This might not make us very popular in here.
But I don't advocate war or hate. Guess I'm kind of a "liberal" Christian. I have my suspicions of the anti-Christ, and I think that we're staring at it every day in the "news".

Some very confused people who are mixing religion with hate and war. It doesn't feel right; and I trust my gut instinct.

Jesus said they would hate us because they hated him, so they are proving him right.

 

[mskafka]

Let's take a wager....Who will be the first to bring up Sharia Law, and quote from the Koran (of which they've only read 5-10 quotes from)?

 

[mskafka]

I believe that we have an ugly branch of Christianity and Judaism (that join hands while they pray for armageddon).....these people really make me wonder. Seemingly extremists who HATE other religions. There....I said it.

Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions
- Blaise Pascal

'On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."'

Goldwater - Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

Wow! I've never read or heard that. That's powerful.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So everyone who isn't christian is the anti-christ?

You get more and more loony everyday.

I believe that we have an ugly branch of Christianity and Judaism (that join hands while they pray for armageddon).....these people really make me wonder. Seemingly extremists who HATE other religions. There....I said it.

Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions
- Blaise Pascal

Really,it's not just in the name of religion horrible crimes are committed.

Does hitler and mao sound familiar ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

I believe that we have an ugly branch of Christianity and Judaism (that join hands while they pray for armageddon).....these people really make me wonder. Seemingly extremists who HATE other religions. There....I said it.

Say it as much as you like. I don't think there should be any shame in recognizing the intolerance of fundies for any other belief. The stronger their belief that others who don't believe as they do are the anti-Christ, or any other evil entity, the more dangerous and unpredictable they are.

And, that doesn't just go for Christians and Jews. We've actually seen that manifested on 9/11/01, for a blatant example.

It's been a very long time since I've read the bible, but I do recall something about the Devil coming as a poseur (paraphrased, obviously). Maybe it is right.

"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings."
— Richard Dawkins

Quoting your hero are you ?

 

[Si modo]

Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions
- Blaise Pascal

'On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."'

Goldwater - Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

Wow! I've never read or heard that. That's powerful.

Goldwater was a great Republican. I wish they had never wined and dined the Religious Right.

 

[mskafka]

I believe that we have an ugly branch of Christianity and Judaism (that join hands while they pray for armageddon).....these people really make me wonder. Seemingly extremists who HATE other religions. There....I said it.

Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions
- Blaise Pascal

Really,it's not just in the name of religion horrible crimes are committed.

Does hitler and mao sound familiar ?

Well, Hitler didn't care a whole lot for Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Orthodox...am I missing anyone, religion-wise? Yes he also killed gays, disabled, etc... But it seems that religion was part of his motive.

 

[mskafka]

'On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?

And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."'

Goldwater - Speech in the US Senate (16 September 1981)

Wow! I've never read or heard that. That's powerful.

Goldwater was a great Republican. I wish they had never wined and dined the Religious Right.

Frankly, people like Michelle Bachmann frighten me. She is one of those extremists (I think) who would pull that lever or push that button to launch nukes, because "God told her to do it." We don't need that.

This might not make me popular, but Palin scared me for the same reason. It's not just the social issues. It's the mental health issues. The extremism.

 

[peach174]

You are mistaken about God telling a Christian to push the nuke button.
God would never tell a Christian to push the nuke button
Satan would, but a Christian would know that it is Satan saying that to them.

I could say the same thing about the far left extremism that thinks Communism is the way to go.

 

[konradv]

The Anti-Christ is in us all, says St. Mick.

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah

Sympathy for the Devil, The Rolling Stones

HEYYYYY. I actually love that song. Now I'm going to have to listen to it. Just for the record, I don't believe that the devil is a red man with a trident, horns and a pointy tail.

I've always loved the song, but got even more interested when it was included at #3 on the Top 50 Conservative songs list.

Conservative Top 50 - New York Times

3. "Sympathy for the Devil," by The Rolling Stones.

Don't be misled by the title; this song is "The Screwtape Letters" of rock. The devil is a tempter who leans hard on moral relativism — he will try to make you think that "every cop is a criminal / And all the sinners saints." What's more, he is the sinister inspiration for the cruelties of Bolshevism: "I stuck around St. Petersburg / When I saw it was a time for a change / Killed the czar and his ministers / Anastasia screamed in vain."

I feel they misinterpreted the song, i.e. the devil is lying to us. IMO, he's telling us the truth. There's something of the devil in all of us, is the message I get. You?

 

[PoliticalChic]

CON$ervatism is the anti-Christ, because it is the most Satanic of all the hate religions with lying as its Holy Eucharist.

The anti christ is anyone who stands in oppsition to Christ.

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."

Are you saying that he who denies Christ would be anti-Christ, or he who stands in opposition to his teachings?

I'm just wondering if you and I are thinking along the same lines.

Oops...see...you quote the Gospel of John.....so I feel the need to go off on another tangent!

You mention John, and I have to bring up the Gospel of Thomas. I was reading a novel, "Map of Bones," by James Rollins, and part of his story caused me to research several gospels, as well as the Gnoticism of early Christianity.

1. In the early years, Christianity was an outlaw religion, and secrecy was required, surreptitious meetings in caves and crypts. As a result of isolation and separation of the various Christian groups, practices and philosophies began to differ. As could be expected, numerous gospels were produced…and they differed in marked ways.

2. The gospels included Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but also the Secret Gospel of James, of Mary Magdalene, of Philip, the Gospel of Truth, the Apocalypse of Peter, and a number of others.

a. The Gospel of Thomas. The opening lines of this gospel say that it contains "secret sayings" of Jesus, and that anyone who discovers their true meaning "will not taste death". The gospel then gives 114 of these sayings, most of them introduced by the words "Jesus said"…. the only surviving complete copy is a Coptic translation…. many scholars consider it to be the most important surviving non-biblical gospel.

b. The early gospels...Thomas is earlier than John....incorporated the idea that the realisation of Gnosis (esoteric or intuitive knowledge), is the way to salvation of the soul.

3. As a result of the number, and kinds, of gospels extant, several with a Gnostic bent, there was the very real danger of the young Christian church splintering into different religions.
In the second century, the bishop of Lyon, Saint Irenaeus, in the second century, wrote the five volume “Against Heresies,” (called “The Destruction and Overthrow of Falsely So-called Knowledge”) designed to remove Gnostic beliefs out of the Christian religion, and to limit it to the four-fold Gospel canon. All the others were deemed heretical.

a. “Three of the Gospels- Mathew, Mark, and Luke- all tell the same story. But John relates a very different history, even the events in Christ’s life don’t match the chronology in the others. But there is a reason why John was included in the standardized Bible.” Rollins, “Map of Bones,” p.168.

b. The reason was John's fellow apostle, Thomas…Doubting Thomas. In John’s version, Thomas is a dull-witted and faithless disciple; the others revere Thomas. John sought to discredit Thomas….and by extension, any followers of Thomas- who were numerous at the time. The gospels of Thomas and John were so different that only one could survive.

4. As John offered a more orthodox path for salvation, it offered a simpler and more easily replicated model for the young church, and showed a way to bring the disparate elements into one. Thomas’ idea that each had an innate ability to find God within required no particular worship.

a. So, there is John’s orthodox faith, and Thomas’ Gnostic tradition.


I went off the track again, didn't I.
Thought it might interest you.

 

[mskafka]

You are mistaken about God telling a Christian to push the nuke button.
God would never tell a Christian to push the nuke button
Satan would, but a Christian would know that it is Satan saying that to them.

I could say the same thing about the far left extremism that thinks Communism is the way to go.

YEAH! Communism is EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED! Please give me some examples of Democratic AMERICAN politicians (in recent years) who've told the terrorists to "bring it on!". Or, who have claimed that they have a method to "pray the gay away." Or who claim that "God advised them to run for office."

This isn't a left or a right thing. This is a religious thing. And if Hillary were to suddenly say-"God has told me that running for president is my destiny." That would be the last time that I would think of her as anything but a loon.

There are GOP that I would consider voting for, but Bachmann and Palin are out of the question, and out of their minds.

Religious thread or not...I don't give a rat's ass how many of you don't like that statement. Take it and cram it. And have your communism vs. fascism babble with someone else with your comprehension level.

Accusing someone of not liking Palin as a COMMUNIST. HOW NOVEL!

 

[Cammmpbell]

I found this portion of an article interesting.

Cyril of Jerusalem


"This aforementioned Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts, perhaps, but all reigning at the same time. After these there shall be an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by the evil craft of his magic shall seize upon the Roman power. Of the kings who reigned before him, three shall he humble [Dan. 7:24], and the remaining seven he shall have as subjects under him. At first he shall feign mildness—as if he were a learned and discreet person—and sobriety and loving kindness" (Catechetical Lectures 15:12 [A.D. 350]).

"Having beguiled the Jews by the lying signs and wonders of his magical deceit, until they believe he is the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all manner of wicked deeds of inhumanity and lawlessness, as if to outdo all the unjust and impious men who have gone before him. He shall display against all men, and especially against us Christians, a spirit that is murderous and most cruel, merciless and wily. For three years and six months only shall he be the perpetrator of such things; and then he shall be destroyed by the glorious second coming from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Savior Jesus, the true Christ, who shall destroy him with the breath of his mouth [2 Thess. 2:8], and deliver him over to the fire of Gehenna" (ibid.).


The Antichrist | Catholic Answers

Definitely one of the angels. That's where the devil came from...according to Christian mythology. Line them up and check their badges. When you see 666 VOILA!

 

[mskafka]

The anti christ is anyone who stands in oppsition to Christ.

1 John 2:22-23 "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."

Are you saying that he who denies Christ would be anti-Christ, or he who stands in opposition to his teachings?

I'm just wondering if you and I are thinking along the same lines.

Oops...see...you quote the Gospel of John.....so I feel the need to go off on another tangent!

You mention John, and I have to bring up the Gospel of Thomas. I was reading a novel, "Map of Bones," by James Rollins, and part of his story caused me to research several gospels, as well as the Gnoticism of early Christianity.

1. In the early years, Christianity was an outlaw religion, and secrecy was required, surreptitious meetings in caves and crypts. As a result of isolation and separation of the various Christian groups, practices and philosophies began to differ. As could be expected, numerous gospels were produced…and they differed in marked ways.

2. The gospels included Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but also the Secret Gospel of James, of Mary Magdalene, of Philip, the Gospel of Truth, the Apocalypse of Peter, and a number of others.

a. The Gospel of Thomas. The opening lines of this gospel say that it contains "secret sayings" of Jesus, and that anyone who discovers their true meaning "will not taste death". The gospel then gives 114 of these sayings, most of them introduced by the words "Jesus said"…. the only surviving complete copy is a Coptic translation…. many scholars consider it to be the most important surviving non-biblical gospel.

b. The early gospels...Thomas is earlier than John....incorporated the idea that the realisation of Gnosis (esoteric or intuitive knowledge), is the way to salvation of the soul.

3. As a result of the number, and kinds, of gospels extant, several with a Gnostic bent, there was the very real danger of the young Christian church splintering into different religions.
In the second century, the bishop of Lyon, Saint Irenaeus, in the second century, wrote the five volume “Against Heresies,” (called “The Destruction and Overthrow of Falsely So-called Knowledge”) designed to remove Gnostic beliefs out of the Christian religion, and to limit it to the four-fold Gospel canon. All the others were deemed heretical.

a. “Three of the Gospels- Mathew, Mark, and Luke- all tell the same story. But John relates a very different history, even the events in Christ’s life don’t match the chronology in the others. But there is a reason why John was included in the standardized Bible.” Rollins, “Map of Bones,” p.168.

b. The reason was John's fellow apostle, Thomas…Doubting Thomas. In John’s version, Thomas is a dull-witted and faithless disciple; the others revere Thomas. John sought to discredit Thomas….and by extension, any followers of Thomas- who were numerous at the time. The gospels of Thomas and John were so different that only one could survive.

4. As John offered a more orthodox path for salvation, it offered a simpler and more easily replicated model for the young church, and showed a way to bring the disparate elements into one. Thomas’ idea that each had an innate ability to find God within required no particular worship.

a. So, there is John’s orthodox faith, and Thomas’ Gnostic tradition.


I went off the track again, didn't I.
Thought it might interest you.

The Gospel of Thomas....I've never heard of that, but of course, I've heard of a possible contribution by Mary Magdalene from the Da Vinci Code. Hmmmmm.

I knew that Christians had to meet in secret due to the probable persecution of the Jewish people. But Gnosticism...the most I've read about this has been through Sylvia Browne.

Map of Bones. Never heard of it, but it sounds like a must read! Gotta dust off the nook.

 

[mskafka]

M.J. ROSENBERG: Well, we haven't-- you know, as a Jew, what scares me about him is that he sees us-- he sees Jews and Israelis as part of this divine plan rather than seeing us as people-- as, you know, as actors on the human stage, as just people. Israel was established not to fulfill prophecy. It was established after the Holocaust to be a secure refuge for Jews. And to have these thousands and there are hundreds of thousands of people out there, it doesn't matter if it's a small percentage of evangelicals, it's lots of people, who would take me and my friends and relatives in Israel and sort of, like, use us in their religious, you know, in their religious visions, a vision that ends, of course, with the demise of Jews and lots of other people as well. That's the part I find frightening. I mean, and I really do. It's-- and it's-- I think it's unsettling to most Jews.

On John Hagee
Bill Moyers interview with Ron Sider and M.J. Rosenberg

 

[AmericanFirst]

CON$ervatism is the anti-Christ, because it is the most Satanic of all the hate religions with lying as its Holy Eucharist.

Not. Liberalism is. And leave politics out of this conversation troll.

 

[AmericanFirst]

I found this portion of an article interesting.

Cyril of Jerusalem


"This aforementioned Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts, perhaps, but all reigning at the same time. After these there shall be an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by the evil craft of his magic shall seize upon the Roman power. Of the kings who reigned before him, three shall he humble [Dan. 7:24], and the remaining seven he shall have as subjects under him. At first he shall feign mildness—as if he were a learned and discreet person—and sobriety and loving kindness" (Catechetical Lectures 15:12 [A.D. 350]).

"Having beguiled the Jews by the lying signs and wonders of his magical deceit, until they believe he is the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all manner of wicked deeds of inhumanity and lawlessness, as if to outdo all the unjust and impious men who have gone before him. He shall display against all men, and especially against us Christians, a spirit that is murderous and most cruel, merciless and wily. For three years and six months only shall he be the perpetrator of such things; and then he shall be destroyed by the glorious second coming from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Savior Jesus, the true Christ, who shall destroy him with the breath of his mouth [2 Thess. 2:8], and deliver him over to the fire of Gehenna" (ibid.).


The Antichrist | Catholic Answers

Definitely one of the angels. That's where the devil came from...according to Christian mythology. Line them up and check their badges. When you see 666 VOILA!

No such thing as Christian mythology. Lucifer, satan, was an angle created by God who rebelled and was thrown out of heaven. Satan is the father of lies.