Who killed the electric car?

[gslack]

The number in red is the cost per watt for a 5 kw system. That would power your house and vehicle. In fact, a bunch of these systems would be a real plus for the present grid, as they put power on the grid when there is the most demand. And the EVs would be taking power off the grid at the time of least demand.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Solana Gridtie System 1,800 watts 1680 $2.21 252kWh 30 1 Solectria PVI1800-240 2818030 $3,989

Solana Gridtie System 2,520 watts 2352 $2.11 353kWh 42 1 Solectria PVI2500-240 2825042 $5,324

Solana Gridtie System 3,000 watts 2800 $1.70 420kWh 50 1 Solectria PVI3000 2830050 $5,100

Solana Gridtie System 4,200 watts 3920 $1.61 588kWh 70 1 Solectria PVI4000 2840070 $6,769

Solana Gridtie System 5,040 watts 4704 $1.62 706kWh 84 1 Solectria PVI5000 2850084 $8,157

All I need say is WHOLESALE.... The site sells wholesale, so their price reflects that..... you a seller? Well I am not a retailer so I will pay more correct?

Another little point you left out of your nonsense.... The size of the arrays you mention... So how big are they? how much space will they require? Do most of us have roof space for it? How about battery/storage space? How about the costs of those batteries?

you are being a dishonest hack again oldsocks......

EDIT* You also left this out at the bottom of the list on your site .."** Roof racking is currently about $70 per panel. ".... So add another 70 bucks per panel to that...

You also conveniently left out the price for that last one especially... $17,333... I looked for the size of such array and in the specs for the last one you listed (which is actually 5,490 watts), and only found these numbers... 5,940/5,208 so what is that square yards? square feet? what?... I think that would be a fair and standard thing to let people know right up front don't you?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In the prior post, note the cost for the 5 kw kit. $8157. Powering both your vehicle and your home, the payback period would be less than five years.

That is the funniest thing I have ever read.

 

[Old Rocks]

The number in red is the cost per watt for a 5 kw system. That would power your house and vehicle. In fact, a bunch of these systems would be a real plus for the present grid, as they put power on the grid when there is the most demand. And the EVs would be taking power off the grid at the time of least demand.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Solana Gridtie System 1,800 watts 1680 $2.21 252kWh 30 1 Solectria PVI1800-240 2818030 $3,989

Solana Gridtie System 2,520 watts 2352 $2.11 353kWh 42 1 Solectria PVI2500-240 2825042 $5,324

Solana Gridtie System 3,000 watts 2800 $1.70 420kWh 50 1 Solectria PVI3000 2830050 $5,100

Solana Gridtie System 4,200 watts 3920 $1.61 588kWh 70 1 Solectria PVI4000 2840070 $6,769

Solana Gridtie System 5,040 watts 4704 $1.62 706kWh 84 1 Solectria PVI5000 2850084 $8,157

All I need say is WHOLESALE.... The site sells wholesale, so their price reflects that..... you a seller? Well I am not a retailer so I will pay more correct?

Well, dingleberry, you might try reading what the site states


We design and sell renewable energy systems for projects large and small, to homeowners and do-it-yourselfers, contractors, installers, electricians, and developers. Call one of our experienced solar design tech’s to talk about your project: 1 (800) 472-1142

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Another little point you left out of your nonsense.... The size of the arrays you mention..

The site gave both the number of panels, and the kw output of the array.

. So how big are they? how much space will they require? Do most of us have roof space for it?

That would depend on the size of your house and whether it had a south facing roof.

How about battery/storage space? How about the costs of those batteries?

Come one, dingleberry, don't be so obtuse. Grid tied, and the price included the inverter.

you are being a dishonest hack again oldsocks......

EDIT* You also left this out at the bottom of the list on your site .."** Roof racking is currently about $70 per panel. ".... So add another 70 bucks per panel to that..

Or you could build your own roof rack.

You also conveniently left out the price for that last one especially... $17,333... I looked for the size of such array and in the specs for the last one you listed (which is actually 5,490 watts), and only found these numbers... 5,940/5,208 so what is that square yards? square feet? what?... I think that would be a fair and standard thing to let people know right up front don't you?

The kit that I quoted the price on is a new listing. And it was $8157 for the kit. This is a new listing, and I could not find all the information on the site that I would have liked to have. If these are the standard Kaneka panels, they are roughly a meter on the side. So you would need a roof area of 84 sq. meters.

 

[gslack]

The number in red is the cost per watt for a 5 kw system. That would power your house and vehicle. In fact, a bunch of these systems would be a real plus for the present grid, as they put power on the grid when there is the most demand. And the EVs would be taking power off the grid at the time of least demand.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Solana Gridtie System 1,800 watts 1680 $2.21 252kWh 30 1 Solectria PVI1800-240 2818030 $3,989

Solana Gridtie System 2,520 watts 2352 $2.11 353kWh 42 1 Solectria PVI2500-240 2825042 $5,324

Solana Gridtie System 3,000 watts 2800 $1.70 420kWh 50 1 Solectria PVI3000 2830050 $5,100

Solana Gridtie System 4,200 watts 3920 $1.61 588kWh 70 1 Solectria PVI4000 2840070 $6,769

Solana Gridtie System 5,040 watts 4704 $1.62 706kWh 84 1 Solectria PVI5000 2850084 $8,157

All I need say is WHOLESALE.... The site sells wholesale, so their price reflects that..... you a seller? Well I am not a retailer so I will pay more correct?

Well, dingleberry, you might try reading what the site states


We design and sell renewable energy systems for projects large and small, to homeowners and do-it-yourselfers, contractors, installers, electricians, and developers. Call one of our experienced solar design tech’s to talk about your project: 1 (800) 472-1142

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Another little point you left out of your nonsense.... The size of the arrays you mention..

The site gave both the number of panels, and the kw output of the array.

. So how big are they? how much space will they require? Do most of us have roof space for it?

That would depend on the size of your house and whether it had a south facing roof.

How about battery/storage space? How about the costs of those batteries?

Come one, dingleberry, don't be so obtuse. Grid tied, and the price included the inverter.

you are being a dishonest hack again oldsocks......

EDIT* You also left this out at the bottom of the list on your site .."** Roof racking is currently about $70 per panel. ".... So add another 70 bucks per panel to that..

Or you could build your own roof rack.

You also conveniently left out the price for that last one especially... $17,333... I looked for the size of such array and in the specs for the last one you listed (which is actually 5,490 watts), and only found these numbers... 5,940/5,208 so what is that square yards? square feet? what?... I think that would be a fair and standard thing to let people know right up front don't you?

The kit that I quoted the price on is a new listing. And it was $8157 for the kit. This is a new listing, and I could not find all the information on the site that I would have liked to have. If these are the standard Kaneka panels, they are roughly a meter on the side. So you would need a roof area of 84 sq. meters.

Are you telling us you deliberately gave a link as reference to something that was not the same what you were talking about in your post?

So you deliberately misled us.... nice way to show your lack of honesty and ethics tool...

What exactly is a KIT? What is in a KIT?

THe price for the one closest to the one you were talking about was $17,333..... Don't lie again douchebag you are already busted and you dam well know it....

And as far as your claim of 84 sq meters, how did you come up with that? Is the numbers from the specs in feet or meters, is it squared or what? Again you are being a weasel on this.... One more chance on this and I will dismiss it as more of your lies....

 

[hortysir]

Great Movie

 

[westwall]

Poor ol' ignorant Doodeee....., still in the last century.

Toyota RAV4 EV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The RAV4 EV was an all-electric version of the popular RAV4 SUV produced by Toyota. It was sold from 1997 to 2003.

The first fleet version of the RAV4 EV became available on a limited basis in 1997. In 2001 it was possible for businesses, cities or utilities to lease one or two of these cars. Toyota then actually sold or leased 328 RAV4 EVs to the general public in 2003, at which time the program was terminated despite waiting lists of prospective customers.

The RAV4 EV closely resembles the regular internal combustion engine (ICE) version - without a tailpipe - and has a governed top speed of 78 mph (~126 km/h) with a range of 100 to 120 miles (160 to 190 km). The 95 amp-hour NiMH battery pack has a capacity of 27 kWh, charges inductively and has proven to be surprisingly durable. Some RAV4 EVs have achieved over 150,000 miles (240,000 km) on the original battery pack. It was also one of the few vehicles with a single speed automatic transmission at that time


The RAV4 EV has a governed top speed of 78 miles per hour (126 km/h), a tested 0-60 time of around 18 seconds (depending on state-of-charge on the batteries) and a range of 80 to 120 miles (130 to 190 km). Mileage depends on the same factors as a traditional gasoline-powered vehicle, mainly rolling resistance and average speed (aerodynamic drag).

The RAV4 EV has 24 12-volt 95Ah NiMH batteries capable of storing 27.4 kWh of energy.

[edit] Charging
The RAV4 EV's batteries can be recharged from being fully depleted to fully charged in about 5 hours, and are monitored with a passive battery balancing system. Electricity is supplied via a Magne Charge inductive charging paddle[1] from a wall-mounted 6000-Watt charging unit on a 220 volt, 30 amp, North American "clothes dryer"-type plug.

[edit] Mileage costs
As of May 2006, charging an RAV4 EV from full-dead to full-charge, at a rate of USD 0.09 per kilowatt-hour, costs around USD 2.70. As of May 2008, based on a gasoline price-per-gallon cost of USD 3.80 and up and the non-EV 2003 RAV4 2-wheel-drive gasoline fuel efficiency of 27 mpg-US (8.7 L/100 km; 32 mpg-imp), the RAV4 EV costs approximately 25% as much to fully charge, and makes mileage in the RAV4 EV the cost equivalent to a 111.1 mpg-US (2.117 L/100 km; 133.4 mpg-imp) small SUV.

In addition, the RAV4 EV has a charge timer built into the dashboard that enables the vehicle to start charging at a specific time. As the RAV4 EV easily becomes the main cost of electricity in an average-sized home, this enables the owner to use a Time-Of-Day Meter to reduce electricity costs. This configuration is a standard practice with RAV4 EV owners. The price of electricity at night depends on the carrier, but is usually in the range of 60% of the normal rate. In the use of charging the RAV4 EV, this equates to a cheaper cost-per-mile, roughly equivalent to a vehicle capable of 166.6 mpg-US (1.412 L/100 km; 200.1 mpg-imp), based on a price of USD 3.00 per gallon.

The United States Environmental Protection Agency listed mileage ratings for the RAV4 EV in its yearly Fuel Economy Guide from 2000 through 2003. The 2003 model recorded city mileage equivalent to 125 mpg-US (1.88 L/100 km; 150 mpg-imp), and 100 mpg-US (2.4 L/100 km; 120 mpg-imp) on the highway. Estimated combined mileage was 112 mpg-US (2.10 L/100 km; 135 mpg-imp).

One thing to cast a little reality on the figures provided....your average Energy Star refrigerator uses 1200 WATTS per 24 hour period. The Rav on the other hand uses up 30,000 WATTS in 5 hours for a recharge. So in other words you can run your refrigerator for a MONTH with the same amount of energy to recharge your Rav for a maximum 120 mile range (very rarely achieved BTW). That calculates out to about 30 bucks to go 120 miles in a best case scenario. Currently I can go 450 (average distance, best is 524 worst was 397) miles for 48 bucks which was my last fill up cost. That's 11 cents a mile in fuel cost. The Rav calculates out at 25 cents a mile...and that does not include transmission line cost. So feel free to charge yourself more than twice the amount to travel the same distance...oh wait a minute. You have to charge up four times to go the same amount don't you....oooopss.

Okay, let me throw this idea out because I have been thinking about it for a while.

80 - 120 miles on a single charge is simply not sufficient!! Duh! I nominate myself for the Captain Obvious Award of the day.

Anyway, could the batteries be developed so that they were exchangeable. In other words, gas stations would become battery stations as well. You are driving along and the battery begins to run low so you pull into the gas station, pop the hood and switch batteries then drive on down the road while the station you just left charges the battery and after it is recharged and another customer comes along they get the recharged battery while exchanging for theirs that need to be recharged.

80 - 120 is still not "good enough" but better then 80-120 miles, stop and recharge your batter for five hours and go on about your merry little way.

Improve the life of the battery with technology and maybe you can get 250 miles on a battery and that is about what today's cars get on a tank of gas.

Immie

The batteries for these vehicles are extraordinarily expensive, contrary to old frauds contention, and run around 30k for a set. They also weigh around 1200-1400 pounds for the Rav, so interchangeable battery packs are not remotely practical.

 

[Old Rocks]

If we were making ICEs in batchs of ten thousand, they would cost around a hundred thousand apeice.

 

[Old Rocks]

All I need say is WHOLESALE.... The site sells wholesale, so their price reflects that..... you a seller? Well I am not a retailer so I will pay more correct?

Well, dingleberry, you might try reading what the site states


We design and sell renewable energy systems for projects large and small, to homeowners and do-it-yourselfers, contractors, installers, electricians, and developers. Call one of our experienced solar design tech’s to talk about your project: 1 (800) 472-1142

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Another little point you left out of your nonsense.... The size of the arrays you mention..

The site gave both the number of panels, and the kw output of the array.

. So how big are they? how much space will they require? Do most of us have roof space for it?

That would depend on the size of your house and whether it had a south facing roof.

How about battery/storage space? How about the costs of those batteries?

Come one, dingleberry, don't be so obtuse. Grid tied, and the price included the inverter.

you are being a dishonest hack again oldsocks......

EDIT* You also left this out at the bottom of the list on your site .."** Roof racking is currently about $70 per panel. ".... So add another 70 bucks per panel to that..

Or you could build your own roof rack.

You also conveniently left out the price for that last one especially... $17,333... I looked for the size of such array and in the specs for the last one you listed (which is actually 5,490 watts), and only found these numbers... 5,940/5,208 so what is that square yards? square feet? what?... I think that would be a fair and standard thing to let people know right up front don't you?

The kit that I quoted the price on is a new listing. And it was $8157 for the kit. This is a new listing, and I could not find all the information on the site that I would have liked to have. If these are the standard Kaneka panels, they are roughly a meter on the side. So you would need a roof area of 84 sq. meters.

Are you telling us you deliberately gave a link as reference to something that was not the same what you were talking about in your post?

So you deliberately misled us.... nice way to show your lack of honesty and ethics tool...

What exactly is a KIT? What is in a KIT?

THe price for the one closest to the one you were talking about was $17,333..... Don't lie again douchebag you are already busted and you dam well know it....

And as far as your claim of 84 sq meters, how did you come up with that? Is the numbers from the specs in feet or meters, is it squared or what? Again you are being a weasel on this.... One more chance on this and I will dismiss it as more of your lies....

Suckeee...... You have already ran out of chances. The information is on the site. If you are incapable of understanding it, that is your problem.

 

[Chris]

I love the naysayers.

Meanwhile the Chinese and the Israelis are kicking our butts.

 

[gslack]

The kit that I quoted the price on is a new listing. And it was $8157 for the kit. This is a new listing, and I could not find all the information on the site that I would have liked to have. If these are the standard Kaneka panels, they are roughly a meter on the side. So you would need a roof area of 84 sq. meters.

Are you telling us you deliberately gave a link as reference to something that was not the same what you were talking about in your post?

So you deliberately misled us.... nice way to show your lack of honesty and ethics tool...

What exactly is a KIT? What is in a KIT?

THe price for the one closest to the one you were talking about was $17,333..... Don't lie again douchebag you are already busted and you dam well know it....

And as far as your claim of 84 sq meters, how did you come up with that? Is the numbers from the specs in feet or meters, is it squared or what? Again you are being a weasel on this.... One more chance on this and I will dismiss it as more of your lies....

Suckeee...... You have already ran out of chances. The information is on the site. If you are incapable of understanding it, that is your problem.

Information to something else... Moron.... You just lied through your teeth to people you POS....

You fucking fraud!!!

BUSTED YOURSELF AGAIN DIDN"T YOU!!!!

 

[Chris]

No. I did some consulting work for a hydrogen company a few years ago. I'd love to see economically, environmentally sound alternatives to (largely foreign sourced) oil. But there aren't any right now. They will take decades to develop and phase in.

You have an incredibly naive view of both the energy industries and economics.

Naive? Like Warren Buffett?

Buffett's BYD endorsement sends shares soaring
Joanne Chiu and Alison Leung
HONG KONG
Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:30am EDTStocks

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Warren Buffett's investment in Chinese battery maker BYD (1211.HK) gives the firm capital and credibility to pursue its ambition of making environmentally friendly hybrid cars, and nearly doubled its share price on Monday.

On Saturday, MidAmerican Energy, a unit of investment guru Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway (BRKa.N), agreed to buy a 10 percent stake in BYD for $230 million, which investors took as a solid endorsement for the rapidly expanding firm.

Buffett's BYD endorsement sends shares soaring | Reuters

You do realize Buffet invest for long term gain, don't you? That is why he consistently performs well, because he accurately predicts good investments that pay off years later. You are making it sound like this is going to happen tomorrow, it isn't. That makes you naive, just boedicca said.

It's already happening.

 

[gslack]

Naive? Like Warren Buffett?

Buffett's BYD endorsement sends shares soaring
Joanne Chiu and Alison Leung
HONG KONG
Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:30am EDTStocks

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Warren Buffett's investment in Chinese battery maker BYD (1211.HK) gives the firm capital and credibility to pursue its ambition of making environmentally friendly hybrid cars, and nearly doubled its share price on Monday.

On Saturday, MidAmerican Energy, a unit of investment guru Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway (BRKa.N), agreed to buy a 10 percent stake in BYD for $230 million, which investors took as a solid endorsement for the rapidly expanding firm.

Buffett's BYD endorsement sends shares soaring | Reuters

You do realize Buffet invest for long term gain, don't you? That is why he consistently performs well, because he accurately predicts good investments that pay off years later. You are making it sound like this is going to happen tomorrow, it isn't. That makes you naive, just boedicca said.

It's already happening.

Yeah better call in sock #2 to divert and bury the fuck up again huh oldsocks.... You are way too predictable now..

 

[Chris]

You do realize Buffet invest for long term gain, don't you? That is why he consistently performs well, because he accurately predicts good investments that pay off years later. You are making it sound like this is going to happen tomorrow, it isn't. That makes you naive, just boedicca said.

It's already happening.

Yeah better call in sock #2 to divert and bury the fuck up again huh oldsocks.... You are way too predictable now..

And you add nothing to any discussion.

Meanwhile hybrids and electric cars continue to be produced by more and more manufacturers.

And then there is the patriotic aspect.

We are sending $100 billion dollars overseas every year to pay for oil.

Electricity is made in America.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ol' Suckeee..... is a mindless troll, and cares little about what happens to this nation.

 

[gslack]

It's already happening.

Yeah better call in sock #2 to divert and bury the fuck up again huh oldsocks.... You are way too predictable now..

And you add nothing to any discussion.

Meanwhile hybrids and electric cars continue to be produced by more and more manufacturers.

And then there is the patriotic aspect.

We are sending $100 billion dollars overseas every year to pay for oil.

Electricity is made in America.

HUSH SOCKO!

 

[gslack]

Ol' Suckeee..... is a mindless troll, and cares little about what happens to this nation.

And you are a deliberate liar, and POS propaganda posting lowlife.... You flat out lied here... have some pride and dignity for once lowlife....

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Now don't get excited and piss your pants

 

[gslack]

LOL. Now don't get excited and piss your pants

Don't have to get excited... I can list the posts to show what a liar you are...

Starting in post #59

The number in red is the cost per watt for a 5 kw system. That would power your house and vehicle. In fact, a bunch of these systems would be a real plus for the present grid, as they put power on the grid when there is the most demand. And the EVs would be taking power off the grid at the time of least demand.

Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy

Solana Gridtie System 1,800 watts 1680 $2.21 252kWh 30 1 Solectria PVI1800-240 2818030 $3,989

Solana Gridtie System 2,520 watts 2352 $2.11 353kWh 42 1 Solectria PVI2500-240 2825042 $5,324

Solana Gridtie System 3,000 watts 2800 $1.70 420kWh 50 1 Solectria PVI3000 2830050 $5,100

Solana Gridtie System 4,200 watts 3920 $1.61 588kWh 70 1 Solectria PVI4000 2840070 $6,769

Solana Gridtie System 5,040 watts 4704 $1.62 706kWh 84 1 Solectria PVI5000 2850084 $8,157

Notcie your reference link goes to this site Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar Renewable Energy .. yet the numbers you posted above are not what we find if we follow the links on the site to the product you mentioned... in fact the product you mentioned at the bottom is not even there at all beyond that very misleading sales ad...

Following the link to the nearest product like it, we get a price of $17,333... here is that product listing with actual prices from the links on the page...Grid tie Solar Power Systems - Grid tie Solar Panel Systems..

I asked you about this error in #61 and your response was ...

#63

The kit that I quoted the price on is a new listing. And it was $8157 for the kit. This is a new listing, and I could not find all the information on the site that I would have liked to have. If these are the standard Kaneka panels, they are roughly a meter on the side. So you would need a roof area of 84 sq. meters.

I then pointed out that you cited the site as a reference to back your claims, and this was a dishonest thing to do here in my post #64..

your response was to call me dumb and pretend I was having trouble understanding it....

#68

Suckeee...... You have already ran out of chances. The information is on the site. If you are incapable of understanding it, that is your problem.

So your excuse for lying and attempting to deceive all of us regarding your claims on costs of solar power and such is what exactly? An admission and more or less saying "so what"??

Fuck you tool.... you are as dishonest and unethical as they come.. Modern day snake oil man is all you are... Go and take a flying leap you lowlife....

 

[westwall]

In the prior post, note the cost for the 5 kw kit. $8157. Powering both your vehicle and your home, the payback period would be less than five years.

You may want to consider the fact that the costs you posted do not include shipping, instalation or applicable taxes which will add around another 10k to 20k depending on which system you buy.

 

[westwall]

The problem on cost for EVs right now is the same problem you would have were you to decide to build your own V-8 ICE in a modern machine shop. Doable, but the cost would be enormous.

Once that are several million EVs on the highway, the economics of mass production will kick in. As the battery research, or perhaps capacitor, goes into high gear competeing for a market annually in the millions, you will see major improvements, fast. This is, after all, solid state technology.

Tesla Motors - Model S

With a range up to 300 miles and 45-minute QuickCharge, the Model S can carry five adults and two children in quiet comfort – and you can charge it from any outlet, without ever stopping for gas. World’s first mass-produced electric vehicle offers performance, efficiency and unrivaled utility for a base price of $49,900*, making it the only car you’ll ever need.

- 300 mile range
- 45 minute QuickCharge
- 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds
- Seats 7 people
- More cargo space than sedans
- 2X as efficient as hybrids
- 17 inch infotainment touchscreen

I doubt you bothered to read the sales brochure but if you had you would have discovered that there are three projected ranges for the Tesla, 160 miles, 230, and 300. Also they havn't actually built one of these yet you'll notice. They guesstimate deliveries will start in 2012 but the technology isn't quite there yet.

The first car to probably actually make it to market will be the 2010 Roadster and it will have a projected range of 245 miles and a 3.5 hour recharge time. The lease agreement doesn't seem to bad at 1700 per month for three years and 30,000 miles, but I have a short commute (down my steps) and I still drive over ten thousand miles a year so I don't know too many people who will make it under the cap. Of course you are spending 61,200 bucks on something you don't actually own... but hey whatever floats your boat.
You've clearly got 100,00 grand burnin a hole in your pocket.

Tesla Motors - performance specs