Who is the better Parent?

[rdean]

There has been plenty of discussion on the "Mississippi school does the right thing" thread about this girl wanting to take her girlfriend to the prom, but there is another question that no one has discussed that is just as important.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-prom-due-to-lesbian-couple-attending-30.html

In the March 12, Chicago Redeye on page 12, top of the page, this situation goes into more detail with names and places.

The girls name is "Constance McMillen" and she is 18 years old.

She said she didn't want to go back to Itawamba Country Agricultural High School in Fulton the morning after the decision, but her FATHER told her she needed to face her classmates, teachers and school officials.
"My daddy told me that I needed to show them that I'm still proud of who I am. The fact that this will help people later on, that's what's helping me to go on."

She said the day after the school board ruling, she returned to campus to "unfriendly looks" and "Somebody said, 'Thanks for ruining my senior year.'"

-----------------------------------------------

Compare that to the circumstances of former Republican Senate Nominee Alan Keyes.

-----------------------------------------------

Maya Keyes (Alan Keyes' Daughter) Sets the Record Gay in Interview Exclusive

Alan Keyes' daughter: <br>I'm a 'liberal queer'

Maya (Keyes teenage daughter) announced that she was getting kicked out of her house by her parents on her weblog a couple weeks ago.
She had resigned to being homeless and putting off her dream of attending college when her parents determined they would withhold all forms of support due to behaviors they described as “hedonism” and “supporting the enemy.”

Quote from Alan Keyes:

"The essence of ... family life remains procreation," he explained. "If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principle excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism."

---------------------------------------------------

Obviously Keyes believes it's a "choice". So many questions:

Did Keyes himself ever have to "choose"?

"Breeding" is the "only" reason for marriage? (Not all straights have children - are they also hedonists?)

Who is the better father? The one who teaches his daughter a "lesson", no matter how painful, no matter what the cost, even if the cost tears up the family?"

or

The father who accepts his daughter and supports her to the point of not letting her back down from who she is?

Which is more "Christian"?

Which is more "Family Values"?

Can "Christian values" and "Family values" be at odds?

So many questions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

 

[Truthmatters]

Republicans will continue to have gay children at the same rate any other families do.

They will lose the debate when their numbers decrease because of their inability to be fair to all people.

 

[rdean]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

It had nothing to do with Republican. Only I couldn't find anyone else besides Keyes who was so publicly harsh with his child. Keyes had especially nasty things to say about Mary and Dick Cheney and you couldn't find anyone more Republican than them.

If you know of some Democrats who would treat their child this way, please add their name.

 

[strollingbones]

i am a liberal democrat.. when my son decided he would not go by house rules...he was told to fly right or move out..he moved out....was i wrong? i dont think so..have i withheld family support...i dont think so...i see my son almost daily..

and how do you know the young ladies father is not a republican? or a conservative.....he is just making her face things....he knows she will have to..sooner or later..and he is simply making her get it over with....

 

[CurveLight]

Both parents were equally wrong. Though I admit Constance's father gave her sound advice I think he should have told her this is a milestone in her life of making decisions and reflecting the results. Keyes was wrong for trying to extort his own daughter for his political agenda. When a politician will fuk over his own child for political gain how much reserve could he hold in screwing over complete strangers?

 

[rdean]

i am a liberal democrat.. when my son decided he would not go by house rules...he was told to fly right or move out..he moved out....was i wrong? i dont think so..have i withheld family support...i dont think so...i see my son almost daily..

and how do you know the young ladies father is not a republican? or a conservative.....he is just making her face things....he knows she will have to..sooner or later..and he is simply making her get it over with....

I don't really know your definition of "house rules". For some, it's "no pot smoking, no drinking, clean your room, etc".

For some parents, it's, "You will wear only what we buy for you, you will go only where we approve, when we approve, you will not go out at night, the only opinion you will have is one we give you, we will decide which college you will go to and what courses you will take - since we are paying for it", and you will live at home so we can keep an eye on you."

 

[froggy]

There has been plenty of discussion on the "Mississippi school does the right thing" thread about this girl wanting to take her girlfriend to the prom, but there is another question that no one has discussed that is just as important.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-prom-due-to-lesbian-couple-attending-30.html

In the March 12, Chicago Redeye on page 12, top of the page, this situation goes into more detail with names and places.

The girls name is "Constance McMillen" and she is 18 years old.

She said she didn't want to go back to Itawamba Country Agricultural High School in Fulton the morning after the decision, but her FATHER told her she needed to face her classmates, teachers and school officials.
"My daddy told me that I needed to show them that I'm still proud of who I am. The fact that this will help people later on, that's what's helping me to go on."

She said the day after the school board ruling, she returned to campus to "unfriendly looks" and "Somebody said, 'Thanks for ruining my senior year.'"

-----------------------------------------------

Compare that to the circumstances of former Republican Senate Nominee Alan Keyes.

-----------------------------------------------

Maya Keyes (Alan Keyes' Daughter) Sets the Record Gay in Interview Exclusive

Alan Keyes' daughter: <br>I'm a 'liberal queer'
If Maya chooses to become what her parents are against why should she want them to support her choice and contribute to something they're against. If kids make a choice to go against their parent beliefs they shouldn't whine about getting cut off the money tree.
Maya (Keyes teenage daughter) announced that she was getting kicked out of her house by her parents on her weblog a couple weeks ago.
She had resigned to being homeless and putting off her dream of attending college when her parents determined they would withhold all forms of support due to behaviors they described as “hedonism” and “supporting the enemy.”

Quote from Alan Keyes:

"The essence of ... family life remains procreation," he explained. "If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principle excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism."

---------------------------------------------------

Obviously Keyes believes it's a "choice". So many questions:

Did Keyes himself ever have to "choose"?

"Breeding" is the "only" reason for marriage? (Not all straights have children - are they also hedonists?)

Who is the better father? The one who teaches his daughter a "lesson", no matter how painful, no matter what the cost, even if the cost tears up the family?"

or

The father who accepts his daughter and supports her to the point of not letting her back down from who she is?

Which is more "Christian"?

Which is more "Family Values"?

Can "Christian values" and "Family values" be at odds?

So many questions.

If Maya chooses to become something her parents are against she shouldn't whine about getting cut off from the money tree.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

It had nothing to do with Republican. Only I couldn't find anyone else besides Keyes (emphasis added by CF) who was so publicly harsh with his child. Keyes had especially nasty things to say about Mary and Dick Cheney and you couldn't find anyone more Republican than them.

If you know of some Democrats who would treat their child this way, please add their name.

Yes, I know, you put a lot of work into your 2 minute Hate of Republicans. Well done.

 

[bodecea]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

Frank...you are the first one to mention "Republicans".

 

[xsited1]

Who is the better Parent?

OMG! The father of the "lesbian" girl said she should be proud of who she is? What a terrible father! In any case, she's just going through a phase now. She'll marry some guy in a few years and forget all about it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

Frank...you are the first one to mention "Republicans".

Did you miss the post about how hard Rdean had to work to find someone who trashed their kid? It's only because he was only looking at high profile Republicans as his base.

 

[del]

The OP started off decently enough, then, predictably, Rdean's hatred of all things Republican kicked in.

Have a nice life

Frank...you are the first one to mention "Republicans".

yeah, nobody knew alan keyes was a republican until he mentioned it. i'm sure there are NO other examples of parents tossing their gay children to the curb, too.



keep swinging

 

[code1211]

There has been plenty of discussion on the "Mississippi school does the right thing" thread about this girl wanting to take her girlfriend to the prom, but there is another question that no one has discussed that is just as important.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...-prom-due-to-lesbian-couple-attending-30.html

In the March 12, Chicago Redeye on page 12, top of the page, this situation goes into more detail with names and places.

The girls name is "Constance McMillen" and she is 18 years old.

She said she didn't want to go back to Itawamba Country Agricultural High School in Fulton the morning after the decision, but her FATHER told her she needed to face her classmates, teachers and school officials.
"My daddy told me that I needed to show them that I'm still proud of who I am. The fact that this will help people later on, that's what's helping me to go on."

She said the day after the school board ruling, she returned to campus to "unfriendly looks" and "Somebody said, 'Thanks for ruining my senior year.'"

-----------------------------------------------

Compare that to the circumstances of former Republican Senate Nominee Alan Keyes.

-----------------------------------------------

Maya Keyes (Alan Keyes' Daughter) Sets the Record Gay in Interview Exclusive

Alan Keyes' daughter: <br>I'm a 'liberal queer'

Maya (Keyes teenage daughter) announced that she was getting kicked out of her house by her parents on her weblog a couple weeks ago.
She had resigned to being homeless and putting off her dream of attending college when her parents determined they would withhold all forms of support due to behaviors they described as “hedonism” and “supporting the enemy.”

Quote from Alan Keyes:

"The essence of ... family life remains procreation," he explained. "If we embrace homosexuality as a proper basis for marriage, we are saying that it's possible to have a marriage state that in principle excludes procreation and is based simply on the premise of selfish hedonism."

---------------------------------------------------

Obviously Keyes believes it's a "choice". So many questions:

Did Keyes himself ever have to "choose"?

"Breeding" is the "only" reason for marriage? (Not all straights have children - are they also hedonists?)

Who is the better father? The one who teaches his daughter a "lesson", no matter how painful, no matter what the cost, even if the cost tears up the family?"

or

The father who accepts his daughter and supports her to the point of not letting her back down from who she is?

Which is more "Christian"?

Which is more "Family Values"?

Can "Christian values" and "Family values" be at odds?

So many questions.

All of the other questions are stupid. Who is the better parent? Hands down, the one who loves his daughter but demands that she accept the results of her actions knowing that he supports her, what ever she may have to cope with.

If the story of Mr. Keyes is accurate, he's an idiot.

There have been numerous interpretations of the ethics of Christianity. No matter how many children he has, his relationship with each is unique, precious and constantly evolving. When you have a child you have only one job, one responsibility. That is simply to love them.

To deliberately sacrifice love in favor of anything else is stupid beyond words.

 

[code1211]

i am a liberal democrat.. when my son decided he would not go by house rules...he was told to fly right or move out..he moved out....was i wrong? i dont think so..have i withheld family support...i dont think so...i see my son almost daily..

and how do you know the young ladies father is not a republican? or a conservative.....he is just making her face things....he knows she will have to..sooner or later..and he is simply making her get it over with....

I don't really know your definition of "house rules". For some, it's "no pot smoking, no drinking, clean your room, etc".

For some parents, it's, "You will wear only what we buy for you, you will go only where we approve, when we approve, you will not go out at night, the only opinion you will have is one we give you, we will decide which college you will go to and what courses you will take - since we are paying for it", and you will live at home so we can keep an eye on you."

Why would the definition of house rules matter?

 

[code1211]

Who is the better Parent?

OMG! The father of the "lesbian" girl said she should be proud of who she is? What a terrible father! In any case, she's just going through a phase now. She'll marry some guy in a few years and forget all about it.

And someday she'll metion it in passing to her husband and the sex that night will be astonishing.

 

[amrchaos]

I say the Mississippian is in the wrong

All gays are insane--he should have sought psychological help for his daughter the minute she came out to him!!

But he ignore the warnings, now she will stumble through life confused and not truly understanding why people treat her like dirt!!

By the way, the school was wrong for cancelling the prom. What will happen when the gays in the following class declare taking their same sex mate to the prom for now on out?? All they going to cancel the prom indefinitely? What morons, backing themselves into a corner like that. Better, call the loony farm on the girl since her father will not!!

 

[rdean]

I say the Mississippian is in the wrong

All gays are insane--he should have sought psychological help for his daughter the minute she came out to him!!

But he ignore the warnings, now she will stumble through life confused and not truly understanding why people treat her like dirt!!

By the way, the school was wrong for cancelling the prom. What will happen when the gays in the following class declare taking their same sex mate to the prom for now on out?? All they going to cancel the prom indefinitely? What morons, backing themselves into a corner like that. Better, call the loony farm on the girl since her father will not!!

At least you got the "moron" part right.

 

[rdean]

i am a liberal democrat.. when my son decided he would not go by house rules...he was told to fly right or move out..he moved out....was i wrong? i dont think so..have i withheld family support...i dont think so...i see my son almost daily..

and how do you know the young ladies father is not a republican? or a conservative.....he is just making her face things....he knows she will have to..sooner or later..and he is simply making her get it over with....

I don't really know your definition of "house rules". For some, it's "no pot smoking, no drinking, clean your room, etc".

For some parents, it's, "You will wear only what we buy for you, you will go only where we approve, when we approve, you will not go out at night, the only opinion you will have is one we give you, we will decide which college you will go to and what courses you will take - since we are paying for it", and you will live at home so we can keep an eye on you."

Why would the definition of house rules matter?

The purpose of "parents" is to guide their children and hopefully, make better people than they were.

The purpose of "house rules" is to make sure the children don't walk all over their parents.

Without rules, those same children might walk into the house with muddy shoes and not clean up afterwards. They might have drug induced drinking orgies. They might steal.

Besides, rules can teach responsibility and make children secure that there are "rules" and "consequences".

On the other hand, at some point, "rules" can be just another way of saying "slavery" if every trait of individuality is stifled.

And that is one of the defining differences between conservative and liberal. Conservatives are way more into being part "of the group" and liberals are way more into being an "individual".

 

[Avatar4321]

I don't really know your definition of "house rules". For some, it's "no pot smoking, no drinking, clean your room, etc".

For some parents, it's, "You will wear only what we buy for you, you will go only where we approve, when we approve, you will not go out at night, the only opinion you will have is one we give you, we will decide which college you will go to and what courses you will take - since we are paying for it", and you will live at home so we can keep an eye on you."

Those would all be house rules. What's your point?