Who is responsible for YOU?

[sealybobo]

Yourself, or government?

Are conservatives back on this again?

So did you abandon being the compassionate conservative title?

What do you guys call yourselves now?

The bottom line is this. Liberals think the government's role should be more, not less in this crisis.

You guys think the government should do less.

That's why you lost the election. In fact, your government did the things that actually caused the mess we are in. Now you want the new government to come in and be hands off? Of course that is what you would want. The status quo.

Hey, by the way, it would have been nice if the GOP practiced hands off with the free markets. WHen they got into office, they deregulated the system and fucked it up even worse than it was before. Only the CEO's made out these last 8 years.

Republicans will even brag that before Pelosi & Reed took over, they were doing a GREAT job. Corporate profits were up, etc. They'll totally ignore how they bankrupted the treasury, sent jobs overseas and created the huge unemployment numbers we see today.

The answer to your question is this. The government the last 8 years, especially 2000-2006, worked against us, not for us. It only worked for the top 1%.

That's not even debatable anymore.

So who was more responsible for the german who got killed on D day fighting the Americans? Hitler or the soldiers fault?

 

[sealybobo]

what is ironic as fuck about this thread is that I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the very people who are crying about total self reliance also claim to be christians. Clearly, they are not their brother's keeper.

Ed Schultz yesterday was trying to explain it to a right winger who called in to his radio show. He said, "we're both in a canoe, the rapids are approaching, you know how to swim and I don't, i should have wore a lifejacket, are you just going to let me die or are you going to save me"

And the conservative said he would let you drown. Nice!!!

 

[Bern80]

being strong armed by a failing system that you capitalistas invoked on our country. Ask Bern all about those videos and articles that chaffe your sense of a free market.

No one every claimed it was a free market either. keep spitting into the wind shogun.

Are you suggesting that the free market has NOT been your mantra during the last batch of years, Bern? Of course it's not absolutely free but is that or IS THAT NOT the direction your kind keep trying to pull the tog o' war rope?

Read any good articles about shitty jobs and exponential rates of applicants today, Bern?

yes i tend to favor free market, capitalist solutions to socialistic ones. What I am saying is that it is rather difficult for you to blame our problems on the free market when such a beast doesn't exist.

 

[sealybobo]

No one every claimed it was a free market either. keep spitting into the wind shogun.

Are you suggesting that the free market has NOT been your mantra during the last batch of years, Bern? Of course it's not absolutely free but is that or IS THAT NOT the direction your kind keep trying to pull the tog o' war rope?

Read any good articles about shitty jobs and exponential rates of applicants today, Bern?

yes i tend to favor free market, capitalist solutions to socialistic ones. What I am saying is that it is rather difficult for you to blame our problems on the free market when such a beast doesn't exist.

How convienent. Notice how when Republicans fuck up, it's because us liberals didn't let them fully implement their plans? If only we let the markets be a little freer for another 8 years, it would all come together.

Or, when Republicans spend a lot, they say things like, "yes, we were too much like the liberals".


So they never lose.

 

[Shogun]

No one every claimed it was a free market either. keep spitting into the wind shogun.

Are you suggesting that the free market has NOT been your mantra during the last batch of years, Bern? Of course it's not absolutely free but is that or IS THAT NOT the direction your kind keep trying to pull the tog o' war rope?

Read any good articles about shitty jobs and exponential rates of applicants today, Bern?

yes i tend to favor free market, capitalist solutions to socialistic ones. What I am saying is that it is rather difficult for you to blame our problems on the free market when such a beast doesn't exist.

nonsense. Thats like saying you can't blame a sunburn on sunbathing just because you are not standing on the surface of the sun... After making every effort to avoid sunblock, no less. Sure, there was no absolute theoretically pure free market but that didn't keep you people from pulling our economy that direction repercussions be damned. We are now suffering the results of your economic discretion. Blaming liberals with coockie cutter talking points and laughable self righeousness isn't helping anyone.


Like I said.. read any good articles today about a staggering amount of Americans looking for even the shittiest jobs?

 

[Ravi]

Quote: Originally Posted by KMAN
Yourself, or government?

And at what point does the country crumble? The top 20% or so of wage earners can only support so many people... At some point the top 20% are going to realize that it's not worth it to work... This means no new drugs, no new technology, etc... Is that really what the people of this country want?

The top 20% are never going to realize that...because it isn't true.

 

[Shogun]

what is ironic as fuck about this thread is that I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the very people who are crying about total self reliance also claim to be christians. Clearly, they are not their brother's keeper.

Please point to the people that are claiming we should be totally self sufficient.

The very premise of Kman's little conundrum indicates that, in his opinion, absolute self sufficiency trumps anything even CLOSE to a burden of dependent peers. did you agree with his assertion? Careful, Bern.. I like to quote people..

 

[editec]

Don't bother KMAN. I've asked a similar question at least a half dozen time in other threads. I have yet to get an answer. I worded it slightly different. Many of the lefties here have made it all to clear what they are NOT responsible for. So instead of making excuses why don't some of you lefties (maybe ed, since I asked you specifically and you didn't answer) tell us what you feel you ARE responsible for at an individual level.

I just don't understand it... I would be embarrassed to know that I couldn't take care of myself and needed someone elses help... Where is their pride?

I would be embarrassed if my thinking was a delusional as yours, but I understand that since your thinking is delusional, you cannot be held responsible for that.

 

[editec]

I knew I shouldn't have added that last paragragh... it's makes it too difficult for people to answer the original question... so let me remove the paragraph and just ask the question.... It shouldn't be that hard of a question to answer but maybe it is for some.....sad.

Removing the last paragraph so dumbs down the question as to make it meaningless.

The complex economic reality that we live with is not condusive to that sort to black/white thinking.

It's not the 18th century, amigo. W

e're not living in a land where we can just head out to the wilderness and live lives of deperate self sufficiency and subsistence farming.

In fact people couldn't even really do that then, either. They brought the benefits of civilization with them, and they depended on civilization to keep them going even when they lived far outside the confines of civil society, too.

Trappers and traders still brought their goods to society so they could buy the stuff they needed to survive the wilderness.

It's a lovely myth that you believe in, of course, about individualism and self reliance, but it was a myth then for the majority of people, and its even more a myth now.

You are no more completely in control of you life than any welfare mother.

Neither, for that matter, is Bill Gates.

Civilization just doesn't work in that simplistic way your world view is informing you it does.

that people should be totally self sufficient is not what anyone is arguing.

Well then, perhaps KMAN should not have structured is question to imply that was what he was asking, eh?

 

[Ravi]

It's always nice to see KYMAN's idiocy on display.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Too simplistic a question.

Both are responsible for you in different areas. There are things the individual can do and things he/she can't. These thing can become the funcion of business or the government.


As to the top 20% supporting the rest of US. Bullshit. The other 80% create the services, products and needs that the so called to 20% need to exist.

On my side or against me thinking is simplistic and usually fucking wrong.

 

[KMAN]

what is ironic as fuck about this thread is that I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the very people who are crying about total self reliance also claim to be christians. Clearly, they are not their brother's keeper.

Shogun, it's obvious you know nothing about Christianity, which is sad. I find it funny that the non-Christians claim know more about Christianity than Christians...

By the way you may want to look into how much Christians give to charity... You obviously have no clue...

 

[KMAN]

By the way, has anyone heard a liberal answer this question yet....LOL

 

[sealybobo]

Don't bother KMAN. I've asked a similar question at least a half dozen time in other threads. I have yet to get an answer. I worded it slightly different. Many of the lefties here have made it all to clear what they are NOT responsible for. So instead of making excuses why don't some of you lefties (maybe ed, since I asked you specifically and you didn't answer) tell us what you feel you ARE responsible for at an individual level.

I just don't understand it... I would be embarrassed to know that I couldn't take care of myself and needed someone elses help... Where is their pride?

I would be embarrassed if my thinking was a delusional as yours, but I understand that since your thinking is delusional, you cannot be held responsible for that.

Bern doesn't get it. He acts like he made it to where he is completely on his own.

He may have had great parents. The government helps people who don't have great parents.

He may have been born rich. The government helps people who were not born rich.

The schools in poor areas are inferior to schools in Bern's neighborhood.

So right there alone, Bern has proven that he doesn't appreciate or even acknowlege that government has helped him.

Or was Bern born in the woods, self educated himself, worked minimum wage and saved up to start his own business, without any loans.

And if he did get a loan, it was probably Freddy or Fanny, so now these rich arrogant pricks want to blame Freddy/Fanny for giving poor people loans?

I have to go get lunch. I'm going to think about that one.

 

[driveby]

what is ironic as fuck about this thread is that I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the very people who are crying about total self reliance also claim to be christians. Clearly, they are not their brother's keeper.

Ed Schultz yesterday was trying to explain it to a right winger who called in to his radio show. He said, "we're both in a canoe, the rapids are approaching, you know how to swim and I don't, i should have wore a lifejacket, are you just going to let me die or are you going to save me"

And the conservative said he would let you drown. Nice!!!

Problem is the guy that can't swim keeps getting in the canoe, keeps paddling toward the rapids, knowing he can't swim, doesn't wear his life jacket everytime and keeps expecting someone to keep him from drowning everytime. After this cycle happens about fifty times or so, he's gonna drown and it's no one else's fault but his own. But i'm guessing a classy guy like Ed Schultz hung up on the conservative caller before he could make a point similar to that........

 

[Shogun]

what is ironic as fuck about this thread is that I'd bet money, marbles and chalk that the very people who are crying about total self reliance also claim to be christians. Clearly, they are not their brother's keeper.

Ed Schultz yesterday was trying to explain it to a right winger who called in to his radio show. He said, "we're both in a canoe, the rapids are approaching, you know how to swim and I don't, i should have wore a lifejacket, are you just going to let me die or are you going to save me"

And the conservative said he would let you drown. Nice!!!

Problem is the guy that can't swim keeps getting in the canoe, keeps paddling toward the rapids, knowing he can't swim, doesn't wear his life jacket everytime and keeps expecting someone to keep him from drowning everytime. After this cycle happens about fifty times or so, he's gonna drown and it's no one else's fault but his own. But i'm guessing a classy guy like Ed Schultz hung up on the conservative caller before he could make a point similar to that........

The canoe represents life in our society, dingleberry. should poor people just go ahead and kill themselves so your favored class can make sure to get paired with only people who can afford a fucking floating device?

What is your religious affiliation? Curious?

 

[Bern80]

By the way, has anyone heard a liberal answer this question yet....LOL

I think ray gets the prize. he's come the closest. And I would say the premise is fairly accurate. The slippery slope we are on is how that responsibility is divided. At the end of the day it is simply not in the best interest of society in terms of it's overall strength and potentional for growth for it's members to turn over and even believe that have the right to absolve themselves of more and more responsibilities.

the extreme this has gotten to is that members of this board have openly advocated that it be the responsibility of your employer via a government mandate to provide at the bare minimum a basic standard of living for every American. that sounds nice, but what has to be asked and hasn't been answered is in that scenario what responsibilities are left to the individual? And as far as I can tell it's almost nothing.

 

[Shogun]

Thanks, Bern, but your economic opinions have not produced the sweet fruit you promise thus far so you'll have to forgive the rest of us for not accepting our fate in your little economic hara kiri.

 

[johnrocks]

Ultimately the individual needs to be responsible for themselves.

 

[Modbert]

Shogun, it's obvious you know nothing about Christianity, which is sad. I find it funny that the non-Christians claim know more about Christianity than Christians...

By the way you may want to look into how much Christians give to charity... You obviously have no clue...

It's because much of the time; non-Christians do know more about Christianity then Christians. Just because you go to church doesn't make you the all knowing about Christianity.

And this is coming from somebody who is a Christian. Charity has nothing to do with knowledge of the church.

Besides, just because Christians give to charity doesn't mean you do. What is the church suppose to be? Something that gives to charity and that you attend so therefore it's alright if you don't give to charity?