Who is responsible for the deaths and injuries to the cops?

[harmonica]

if the shooter had drugs = criminal = needs to be arrested

Irrelevant. All of those “facts” are “fruit of the forbidden tree”. None of this could be known, if the officer hadn’t committed crimes against the suspect in order to confirm them.

arresting criminals is wrong......??!!!

You tell me. Should this cop who broke the law be arrested..?

see post # 17

So... By post #17... When is the cop getting taken out..?

what??

 

[SavannahMann]

A week or so ago, the Internet and the News noticed that five cops were shot during a search warrant on a drug dealer. Since that time, the story has evolved, and we’ve discovered that the cop who got the Search Warrant, Officer Gerald Goines lied when getting the warrant. He claimed that his Informants had made a buy at that location, and thus proved that the baddies were in fact dealing drugs, and selling drugs, from that location.

Only the informants say they never did it. So Goines lied, and according to the Police themselves, is in a lot of trouble over it. Houston officer lied in search warrant leading to drug raid that left 2 people dead, 5 officers hurt, affidavit says - CNN

Another case has already been dismissed, since how do you put the cop up there and swear he followed the rules, when you know he didn’t in another case? One of Goines' cases dismissed amid review of HPD officer's work

But the question I asked in the title remains. Who is responsible?

The Law says that any injuries or deaths that result from the commission of a crime, are the responsibility of everyone participating in the crime. In other words, if you and three buddies rob a bank, and someone dies, all of the robbers are responsible for the death.

But in this case, the cop, Goines is responsible for the first crime, the illegal search and seizure, perjury to get the warrant. Shouldn’t all the deaths be laid at his feet? Shouldn’t he face charges of murder, attempted murder, and I’m sure reckless endangerment and all that sort of thing? If he had not lied on the Affidavit, then the Search Warrant would not have been issued, and nobody would have been there to get shot, and die. Everyone would still be alive, or uninjured.

For a couple decades, I have railed against cops lying as part of their job. This case shows just how bad it is for the cops to lie. Not only does the Guilty Drug Dealer go free, but the cops end up injured, or dead, because of the lie. Worse, all the other cases this cop was a participant in, are now suspect. Any attorney six months out of Law School could tear him apart on the Stand, and nobody is going to believe he only lied that once. Dozens or perhaps hundreds of people are going to get out of prison, and have all charges and convictions against them dropped, because of one cop who wanted to cut corners.

We should charge Officer Gerald Goines with Murder, and Attempted Murder of a police officer. We should insure he spends the rest of his life in prison. We should hold the police to the same exact standard we hold everyone else to, and anyone else who committed a crime that resulted in deaths would be charged that way.

That is the way the job is done in most cases. The informant makes the buy the evidence is given to the team. The evidence is taken to the lab and Id. Next the evidence is put in front of a Judge, the Judge makes the decision if the evidence is creditable. He issues the warrant. Next the team makes the raid. That is how it is done. Someone bought drugs at that location and that is all that is required by law.

Well we know that isn’t what happened in this case.

 

[Vastator]

You seem excited at the prospect of criminals being taken out, a la Dirty Harry... So... Given that this cop not only broke the law, he perverted, and manipulated the justice system itself; to do an end run around the Constitution. That makes this cop a criminal by definition. And a danger to the principles, and values of the nation as a whole. So... Are we to assume that you're looking forward to him being taken out Dirty Harry style as well?

 

[SavannahMann]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The ends never justify the means.

....appears these were bad guys--last time I checked you can't fire on cops for serving a warrant
..no harm-no foul--
..appears this cop is getting the job done even with the stupid red tape--like Dirty Harry
...we do want the criminals taken out

The Constitution lays out what the rights of the individuals are. That stupid Red Tape you decry was part of the reason the Colonials revolted from England. The things you advocate, nothing to fear, nothing to hide, is what the Colonials objected to. In fact, they objected so vehemently that they took up arms to rebel.

Then to make sure that nothing like that happened ever again, they included those rights you decry as Liberal Red Tape, to make sure that people had those rights, with the understanding that those rights were derived from God, and not on the whim of any man.

That document is written in plain English, and I would invite you to check it out. It is the foundation of the Nation we are, not the Fascist Fantasy you seem to imagine we should be. The Fascist Fantasy was defeated soundly by the rabble you seem to detest.

 

[harmonica]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The ends never justify the means.

....appears these were bad guys--last time I checked you can't fire on cops for serving a warrant
..no harm-no foul--
..appears this cop is getting the job done even with the stupid red tape--like Dirty Harry
...we do want the criminals taken out

The Constitution lays out what the rights of the individuals are. That stupid Red Tape you decry was part of the reason the Colonials revolted from England. The things you advocate, nothing to fear, nothing to hide, is what the Colonials objected to. In fact, they objected so vehemently that they took up arms to rebel.

Then to make sure that nothing like that happened ever again, they included those rights you decry as Liberal Red Tape, to make sure that people had those rights, with the understanding that those rights were derived from God, and not on the whim of any man.

That document is written in plain English, and I would invite you to check it out. It is the foundation of the Nation we are, not the Fascist Fantasy you seem to imagine we should be. The Fascist Fantasy was defeated soundly by the rabble you seem to detest.

I'm anti-criminal, not pro-criminal

 

[SavannahMann]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The ends never justify the means.

....appears these were bad guys--last time I checked you can't fire on cops for serving a warrant
..no harm-no foul--
..appears this cop is getting the job done even with the stupid red tape--like Dirty Harry
...we do want the criminals taken out

The Constitution lays out what the rights of the individuals are. That stupid Red Tape you decry was part of the reason the Colonials revolted from England. The things you advocate, nothing to fear, nothing to hide, is what the Colonials objected to. In fact, they objected so vehemently that they took up arms to rebel.

Then to make sure that nothing like that happened ever again, they included those rights you decry as Liberal Red Tape, to make sure that people had those rights, with the understanding that those rights were derived from God, and not on the whim of any man.

That document is written in plain English, and I would invite you to check it out. It is the foundation of the Nation we are, not the Fascist Fantasy you seem to imagine we should be. The Fascist Fantasy was defeated soundly by the rabble you seem to detest.

I'm anti-criminal, not pro-criminal

So you are Anti-Constitution. Since you hate individual rights.

 

[BULLDOG]

A week or so ago, the Internet and the News noticed that five cops were shot during a search warrant on a drug dealer. Since that time, the story has evolved, and we’ve discovered that the cop who got the Search Warrant, Officer Gerald Goines lied when getting the warrant. He claimed that his Informants had made a buy at that location, and thus proved that the baddies were in fact dealing drugs, and selling drugs, from that location.

Only the informants say they never did it. So Goines lied, and according to the Police themselves, is in a lot of trouble over it. Houston officer lied in search warrant leading to drug raid that left 2 people dead, 5 officers hurt, affidavit says - CNN

Another case has already been dismissed, since how do you put the cop up there and swear he followed the rules, when you know he didn’t in another case? One of Goines' cases dismissed amid review of HPD officer's work

But the question I asked in the title remains. Who is responsible?

The Law says that any injuries or deaths that result from the commission of a crime, are the responsibility of everyone participating in the crime. In other words, if you and three buddies rob a bank, and someone dies, all of the robbers are responsible for the death.

But in this case, the cop, Goines is responsible for the first crime, the illegal search and seizure, perjury to get the warrant. Shouldn’t all the deaths be laid at his feet? Shouldn’t he face charges of murder, attempted murder, and I’m sure reckless endangerment and all that sort of thing? If he had not lied on the Affidavit, then the Search Warrant would not have been issued, and nobody would have been there to get shot, and die. Everyone would still be alive, or uninjured.

For a couple decades, I have railed against cops lying as part of their job. This case shows just how bad it is for the cops to lie. Not only does the Guilty Drug Dealer go free, but the cops end up injured, or dead, because of the lie. Worse, all the other cases this cop was a participant in, are now suspect. Any attorney six months out of Law School could tear him apart on the Stand, and nobody is going to believe he only lied that once. Dozens or perhaps hundreds of people are going to get out of prison, and have all charges and convictions against them dropped, because of one cop who wanted to cut corners.

We should charge Officer Gerald Goines with Murder, and Attempted Murder of a police officer. We should insure he spends the rest of his life in prison. We should hold the police to the same exact standard we hold everyone else to, and anyone else who committed a crime that resulted in deaths would be charged that way.

That is the way the job is done in most cases. The informant makes the buy the evidence is given to the team. The evidence is taken to the lab and Id. Next the evidence is put in front of a Judge, the Judge makes the decision if the evidence is creditable. He issues the warrant. Next the team makes the raid. That is how it is done. Someone bought drugs at that location and that is all that is required by law.

In this case, the supposed informants said they never bought drugs at that location.

 

[captkaos]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The fact is genius that even if they found a truck full of pure heroin, Stolen guns, kidnapped children, the boogey man, Aliens or even Hillary Clinton during the raid. It wouldn't matter in the eyes of the Law. All of it is "fruit of the Poison tree" and cannot be used as evidence or even mentioned in any proceeding. It doesn't exist. Example: A New York drug dealer had 2 pounds of heroin in a brief case in his trunk. He got pulled over an the Police searched his car "without a warrant" and it was all good until they looked inside the briefcase w/o a warrant. The case was dismissed and they had to return the briefcase and it's contents to his Lawyer. That's how it works. No warrant shall issue except upon presentation of probable cause. sworn to under oath by a Law enforcement officer or other Law enforcement entity with jurisdiction to do so.

 

[SavannahMann]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The shooter retained his innocence by virtue of the officer committing a crime. That being the denial of due process. Whether, or not the shooter shot, had guns, or drugs; is wholly irrelevant. The facts seem to be that in this case “the bad guy” was in fact the victim of a crime. And bad people can in fact also be victims. The idea that this crime was perpetrated upon him by law enforcement only serves to make it more aggregious...

if the shooter had drugs = criminal = needs to be arrested

Irrelevant. All of those “facts” are “fruit of the forbidden tree”. None of this could be known, if the officer hadn’t committed crimes against the suspect in order to confirm them.

arresting criminals is wrong......??!!!

Arresting Criminals while violating the Bill of Rights is wrong. Every time.

The lowliest Private swears an oath to Support and Defend the Constitution. The Constitution is the foundation of our Nation. The principles it states are based upon the experiences of the former Colonists. They insured Freedom of Speech was in there because they did not have it under British Rule. They included the Second Amendment because the British wanted them disarmed and subdued. The third was included because the British would put their soldiers in your house and eat your food. The Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth were similarly included.

All of the Bill of Rights were included because they were abuses committed by the British against the Colonials. People like you thought these abuses were a small price to pay for the honor of being good British Citizens. I mean, if you had nothing to hide, you had nothing to fear. Isn’t that what your kind say now?

The founders believed that those rights were important enough to state that for all time, no one may violate them. I agree. Those rights are so vitally important to a free nation that they can never be watered down without surrendering some of that freedom.

I don’t just say that in cases like this, but every time. Because the rights are what is important. When the Feds violated the law regarding Bundy I said exactly the same thing. I oppose it no matter who is the victim of the abuse. No matter what crime they are accused of.

The Constitution is more important that whatever outrage we are discussing.

We have found many reasons to ignore the Constitution. All of them wrong in my opinion. Excuses and exceptions make us more like the foreign examples every time. Those foreign examples all have one thing in common. The citizens rights are gifts from the Government. I believe these rights are self evident. Bequeathed by our creator. Derived from God, and man should not mess with them. Ever.

Our Founders agreed. They wrote the Constitution in plain English so everyone would understand the foundation of our laws. This document is displayed proudly even today. To be American is not a matter of Geographic location. It isn’t a Race. It isn’t a religion. It is the belief that we will defend that Document, and the Principles it contains.

To detest those principles, to call the rights Red Tape, or Liberal Obstructions, is to completely miss the point of the nation.

 

[beagle9]

CNN--hahahahahahh..ever hear of Jussie Smollett/etc ? [fake/lies/bullshit ]
..so innocent people shot the cops???!!!!???? please tell us the reason why the innocent people shot at the cops?
..so the big question is, did they find drugs there/etc?

The shooter retained his innocence by virtue of the officer committing a crime. That being the denial of due process. Whether, or not the shooter shot, had guns, or drugs; is wholly irrelevant. The facts seem to be that in this case “the bad guy” was in fact the victim of a crime. And bad people can in fact also be victims. The idea that this crime was perpetrated upon him by law enforcement only serves to make it more aggregious...

if the shooter had drugs = criminal = needs to be arrested

Irrelevant. All of those “facts” are “fruit of the forbidden tree”. None of this could be known, if the officer hadn’t committed crimes against the suspect in order to confirm them.

arresting criminals is wrong......??!!!

Arresting Criminals while violating the Bill of Rights is wrong. Every time.

The lowliest Private swears an oath to Support and Defend the Constitution. The Constitution is the foundation of our Nation. The principles it states are based upon the experiences of the former Colonists. They insured Freedom of Speech was in there because they did not have it under British Rule. They included the Second Amendment because the British wanted them disarmed and subdued. The third was included because the British would put their soldiers in your house and eat your food. The Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth were similarly included.

All of the Bill of Rights were included because they were abuses committed by the British against the Colonials. People like you thought these abuses were a small price to pay for the honor of being good British Citizens. I mean, if you had nothing to hide, you had nothing to fear. Isn’t that what your kind say now?

The founders believed that those rights were important enough to state that for all time, no one may violate them. I agree. Those rights are so vitally important to a free nation that they can never be watered down without surrendering some of that freedom.

I don’t just say that in cases like this, but every time. Because the rights are what is important. When the Feds violated the law regarding Bundy I said exactly the same thing. I oppose it no matter who is the victim of the abuse. No matter what crime they are accused of.

The Constitution is more important that whatever outrage we are discussing.

We have found many reasons to ignore the Constitution. All of them wrong in my opinion. Excuses and exceptions make us more like the foreign examples every time. Those foreign examples all have one thing in common. The citizens rights are gifts from the Government. I believe these rights are self evident. Bequeathed by our creator. Derived from God, and man should not mess with them. Ever.

Our Founders agreed. They wrote the Constitution in plain English so everyone would understand the foundation of our laws. This document is displayed proudly even today. To be American is not a matter of Geographic location. It isn’t a Race. It isn’t a religion. It is the belief that we will defend that Document, and the Principles it contains.

To detest those principles, to call the rights Red Tape, or Liberal Obstructions, is to completely miss the point of the nation.

An eloquent speech I must say, but was it produced in thought of or rather to counter or cover up for the sins of the Demon-crats abusing the founding documents today ??

 

[SavannahMann]

The shooter retained his innocence by virtue of the officer committing a crime. That being the denial of due process. Whether, or not the shooter shot, had guns, or drugs; is wholly irrelevant. The facts seem to be that in this case “the bad guy” was in fact the victim of a crime. And bad people can in fact also be victims. The idea that this crime was perpetrated upon him by law enforcement only serves to make it more aggregious...

if the shooter had drugs = criminal = needs to be arrested

Irrelevant. All of those “facts” are “fruit of the forbidden tree”. None of this could be known, if the officer hadn’t committed crimes against the suspect in order to confirm them.

arresting criminals is wrong......??!!!

Arresting Criminals while violating the Bill of Rights is wrong. Every time.

The lowliest Private swears an oath to Support and Defend the Constitution. The Constitution is the foundation of our Nation. The principles it states are based upon the experiences of the former Colonists. They insured Freedom of Speech was in there because they did not have it under British Rule. They included the Second Amendment because the British wanted them disarmed and subdued. The third was included because the British would put their soldiers in your house and eat your food. The Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth were similarly included.

All of the Bill of Rights were included because they were abuses committed by the British against the Colonials. People like you thought these abuses were a small price to pay for the honor of being good British Citizens. I mean, if you had nothing to hide, you had nothing to fear. Isn’t that what your kind say now?

The founders believed that those rights were important enough to state that for all time, no one may violate them. I agree. Those rights are so vitally important to a free nation that they can never be watered down without surrendering some of that freedom.

I don’t just say that in cases like this, but every time. Because the rights are what is important. When the Feds violated the law regarding Bundy I said exactly the same thing. I oppose it no matter who is the victim of the abuse. No matter what crime they are accused of.

The Constitution is more important that whatever outrage we are discussing.

We have found many reasons to ignore the Constitution. All of them wrong in my opinion. Excuses and exceptions make us more like the foreign examples every time. Those foreign examples all have one thing in common. The citizens rights are gifts from the Government. I believe these rights are self evident. Bequeathed by our creator. Derived from God, and man should not mess with them. Ever.

Our Founders agreed. They wrote the Constitution in plain English so everyone would understand the foundation of our laws. This document is displayed proudly even today. To be American is not a matter of Geographic location. It isn’t a Race. It isn’t a religion. It is the belief that we will defend that Document, and the Principles it contains.

To detest those principles, to call the rights Red Tape, or Liberal Obstructions, is to completely miss the point of the nation.

An eloquent speech I must say, but was it produced in thought of or rather to counter or cover up for the sins of the Demon-crats abusing the founding documents today ??

Neither Republicans nor Democrats really want to uphold the whole document. Democrats detest the Second, Republicans argue we have to get rid of the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth. Neither side of that debate is right when they can explain away violations. The Law and Order Republicans want to have cruel and unusual punishment. The hunch of a cop should be more than enough probable cause.

When you embrace the whole document. Embrace all the principles contained within it. Then you are embracing America, and our history.

We should never allow any exceptions to our freedoms.