Who is hypocritical?

[xotoxi]

Vote and discuss...


(in reference to: http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/93506-a-note-on-hypocrisy.html)

 

[Big Black Dog]

If we are talking about politicians, either liberal or conservative, I believe them both to be hypocritical. It is my impression, and experience, that politicians will say and do anything to be re-elected. A perfect example is Joe Liberman. He couldn't get elected again as a Democrat so he began to call himself an Independent so he could get reelected. How much more hypocritical than that can you be? The senator from Pennsylvania (name doesn't come instantly to mind) but he was elected as a Republician but has changed over to the Democratic side because he no longer had Republician support in his state. I think this is another example of what I'm talking about.

 

[QUENTIN]

I voted both, which I tried to make clear in the other thread.

Just as annoying and full of shit as the Republicans who defended Bush policies and actions they now slam Obama for are the legion of loyal Democrats who decried policies under Bush they now defend Obama for continuing or worsening.

 

[Ravi]

Rgs

 

[DiamondDave]

It's the brain dead blind followers who are generally hypocritical

I do think it is of a greater majority on the left though... as we see some many of the far left whack-jobs on a regular basis... though there are some whack-job extreme righties that are quite hypocritical as well

 

[Intense]

Hypocrisy is a Human Condition. Nobody is Immune.

Bloomberg might be a better example of saying one thing and then doing the other, like Term Limits. Losing a Primary and then Running in a General Election, doesn't say much for Party Loyalty, I don't know if It is Hypocritical in itself.

I have to vote or not Vote for Mayor of NYC and I am lost right now. What will My choice make Me?

 

[L.K.Eder]

it's always the others, those hypocritical fuckers.

 

[QUENTIN]

Diamond places the problem with "far left" whackjobs and whackjob "extreme righties" I don't think either is accurate.

It's the moderate left and right that fall much more in line with their respective parties and blindly support them since the Democratic party and Republican party are both pretty middle of the road, moderate, and agree on more than they disagree. Both parties contain a few token true progressives (Kucinich) and a few token true conservatives (Paul), but that's far from either party's general makeup or base of support.

Genuinely far left individuals don't identify with the Democratic party because it's too centrist and vote Green or Independent and criticize Democratic presidents and politicians for being too conservative. Genuinely far right individuals don't identify with the Republican party because it's too centrist and vote Libertarian or Independent and criticize Republican presidents and politicians for being too liberal.

Basically, I think you've got it backwards.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It depends on what aspects you are talking about but I voted both.

The biggest glaring hypocracy I see by conservatives is they support the death penalty but are against abortion because its murder. The liberals do the same they are against the death penalty because you may murder an innocent person but are for abortion which is murdering an innocent life.


Liberals claim to be for open mindedness and acceptance of all different cultures yet they dont accept conservative culture and have a very closed mind about conservative individuals. I explained this view of mine here http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...liberals-intolerant-of-others-viewpoints.html


Conservatives claim to be financially sound yet defecit spend as bad as the democrats. Cons claim to be for a smaller government yet they still create beurocracies.

Liberals claim to want equal opportunity for all yet want to unconstitutionally levy higher taxes on more successful individuals (the constitution says all taxes must be uniform).

Liberals claim to be for the first ammendment yet are the first to try and shut down any dissenting speech (see obama's behavior in the health care debate for an example "stop talking and get out of the way" "Dont tell me how to hold the mop")


yeah it on both sides.

 

[DiamondDave]

Diamond places the problem with "far left" whackjobs and whackjob "extreme righties" I don't think either is accurate.

It's the moderate left and right that fall much more in line with their respective parties and blindly support them since the Democratic party and Republican party are both pretty middle of the road, moderate, and agree on more than they disagree. Both parties contain a few token true progressives (Kucinich) and a few token true conservatives (Paul), but that's far from either party's general makeup or base of support.

Genuinely far left individuals don't identify with the Democratic party because it's too centrist and vote Green or Independent and criticize Democratic presidents and politicians for being too conservative. Genuinely far right individuals don't identify with the Republican party because it's too centrist and vote Libertarian or Independent and criticize Republican presidents and politicians for being too liberal.

Basically, I think you've got it backwards.

Basically.. you're wrong

The moderate righties and lefties.. the blue dogs and the centrists... are generally LESS hypocritical... they are the voting base that is not in lockstep... hell, they may even change parties or be true independents...

And Paul is not a 'true conservative'.. just as Kooky Kucinich is farther left and whacko than just a 'progressive'

The DEM party is FAR from centrist and has been moving further left over the past 20 or so years... it is increasingly a rare occurrence to see an actual blue dog dem or one that is of more of a centrist view...

And while many CONSERVATIVES don't identify with how the REP party has been, especially under the more moderate 'centrist' Bush administration and the swing towards big government by both moderate and 'hard core' Republicans... conservative does not equal 'far right'... the hypocrisy of may far righties or 'die hard' republicans is well documented in here as well as other places...

And lest we forget the absolute hypocrisy of the far lefties we have in here... which is fully documented and on full display

 

[DiamondDave]

It depends on what aspects you are talking about but I voted both.

The biggest glaring hypocracy I see by conservatives is they support the death penalty but are against abortion because its murder. The liberals do the same they are against the death penalty because you may murder an innocent person but are for abortion which is murdering an innocent life.


Liberals claim to be for open mindedness and acceptance of all different cultures yet they dont accept conservative culture and have a very closed mind about conservative individuals. I explained this view of mine here http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...liberals-intolerant-of-others-viewpoints.html


Conservatives claim to be financially sound yet defecit spend as bad as the democrats. Cons claim to be for a smaller government yet they still create beurocracies.

Liberals claim to want equal opportunity for all yet want to unconstitutionally levy higher taxes on more successful individuals (the constitution says all taxes must be uniform).

Liberals claim to be for the first ammendment yet are the first to try and shut down any dissenting speech (see obama's behavior in the health care debate for an example "stop talking and get out of the way" "Dont tell me how to hold the mop")


yeah it on both sides.

It is hypocritical to want to protect innocent life and to rid society of it's maniacal killers??? Don't see the hypocrisy in that at all...

And what I think you are doing is saying conservatives, yet meaning republicans.... a true conservative does go against big government and wants to eliminate more bureaucracies.... but just because one has an R next to them on the ballot or on their voter card, does not make them a conservative.. and just because a conservative might vote for a republican who does not hold all conservative values over a liberal, does not mean that the conservative does not want more conservative values in government. It simply, many times, is voting for the lesser of 2 evils and going with a candidate who has slightly more in common with what the conservative wants

But I do agree that it is within both major political parties.... and there is no escaping that.. and there are extremists on both sides that will support their party in lockstep, and showing their hypocrisy continually... I.E. Kman and rdean on this forum

 

[Intense]

I think that it's much more complicated than a two sided coin. There are many Philosophies at War here. There are two major camps, thats all. We All either align with one, or the other, go third Party off the Reservation, or just stay home, in mourning on Election Day. There are Forces that Manipulate All sides. There are different forms of Power besides Money. What Tools of Power are easily Recognized? Money, Popularity, Influence, Who is Pulling the Strings? Who wins regardless of the outcome of the Election? Certainly not Choice. We are told what to think. Orwell should have written the Sequel.

 

[amrchaos]

Diamond places the problem with "far left" whackjobs and whackjob "extreme righties" I don't think either is accurate.

It's the moderate left and right that fall much more in line with their respective parties and blindly support them since the Democratic party and Republican party are both pretty middle of the road, moderate, and agree on more than they disagree. Both parties contain a few token true progressives (Kucinich) and a few token true conservatives (Paul), but that's far from either party's general makeup or base of support.

Genuinely far left individuals don't identify with the Democratic party because it's too centrist and vote Green or Independent and criticize Democratic presidents and politicians for being too conservative. Genuinely far right individuals don't identify with the Republican party because it's too centrist and vote Libertarian or Independent and criticize Republican presidents and politicians for being too liberal.

Basically, I think you've got it backwards.

Firsst off--moderates are the ones that empower the party, then are run out once they show they are not willing to go along with the extremists in the party.

Think about it- the past eight years, we saw Rhino hunts and moderate Republican lynchings by their own party. In fact it still goes on today with "I was always a Democrat" Specter, Maine's Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins being targets of Republican scorn!! "They are not true Conservatives" is the right extremists war cry--of course not, the are moderates that try to listen to both sides of the issue--at the cost of there political leanings.

The Left does similiar things with the Blue dog Republicans and are in the process of getting rid of them through the enacting of badly written policies.


In truth, it is the moderates that cross aisles, negotiate compromises and try to rout out the madness that the extremes want. The last time the extremists did something similiar to this, we were marching straight into Iraq to get those imaginary WMD's.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

It is hypocritical to want to protect innocent life and to rid society of it's maniacal killers??? Don't see the hypocrisy in that at all...

What if the person was wrongly convicted of murder and we give them the death penalty? Is that not taking an innocent life just like abortion?

I find supporting the death penalty to be supporting murder, even if those indivudals are very bad people it is still murder to kill them for their crimes. Just as I find supporting abortion to be supporting murder.

That being said i do think that in very rare instances both abortion and the death penalty can be acceptable (life of the mother, rape......indisputable evidence of atrocious crimes against humanity).


Oh and yes I meant Republican not conservative.....as you pointed out not all republicans are conservatives (such as john mccain and george bush jr).

 

[DiamondDave]

It is hypocritical to want to protect innocent life and to rid society of it's maniacal killers??? Don't see the hypocrisy in that at all...

What if the person was wrongly convicted of murder and we give them the death penalty? Is that not taking an innocent life just like abortion?

I find supporting the death penalty to be supporting murder, even if those indivudals are very bad people it is still murder to kill them for their crimes. Just as I find supporting abortion to be supporting murder.

That being said i do think that in very rare instances both abortion and the death penalty can be acceptable (life of the mother, rape......indisputable evidence of atrocious crimes against humanity).


Oh and yes I meant Republican not conservative.....as you pointed out not all republicans are conservatives (such as john mccain and george bush jr).

Which is why I fully believe there has to be a huge burden of proof for any death penalty case... but a sane society rids itself of it's maniacal murderers.... no worth towards housing them until they die... no chance of rehabilitation...

And for your abortion argument... when life of the mother and/or child is because of the pregnancy, sometimes hard medical decisions have to be made... I agree with that fully.. just as there are tough decisions with conjoined twins, radical procedures, etc...

But I don't think it is hypocritical to want to protect innocent life and eliminate the most horrible of society's murderers