who honestly doesn't believe in evolution?

[SmarterThanHick]

Second, I want someone to explain to me how evolution works, how is it propagated, what is the mechanism driving it forward? I'm especially interested in a coherent explanation of "Random mutation"

Third, have human beings stopped evolving? What's next, genetic prosthetics, clairvoyance, wings?

Evolution works through a process called natural selection, which is a fancy way of saying that natural pressures weed out less viable organisms and/or allow better adapted organisms to survive. The mechanism is the environment of the organism, which is why evolution tends to appear faster when environments drastically change.

Let's take the example of a bacteria. When exposed to penicillin, our model bacteria dies. Game over. But let's say our bacteria friend reproduces one million times, something it can accomplish in 20 divisions, which some bacteria can get through in 7 hours. Say it gets a random fluke mutation in its genes one in every 1000 reproductions. Now most of those mutations will be absolutely useless. Most will actually result in death. But some will appear harmless, and of no benefit to our friendly bacteria. Until. We expose it to penicillin again. This time, that seemingly useless mutation allows the bacteria to barely survive a small dose of antibiotic, whereas all of its brothers and sisters get completely wiped out.

How sad. One little bacteria all alone. With the mutation that just happens to save it from low doses of antibiotic. 7 hours later, it has a million offspring, and the cycle repeats itself. Perhaps a high dose of penicillin will kill the original saving mutation, but at that point, a new mutation has arisen that protects the offspring from even high doses, making it invincible to penicillin. Even if all its siblings get eradicated, it remains to repopulate with the strong genes.

This is evolution in a nutshell: random mutations creating non-random selection.

As you can tell from the example, mutations do not happen IN RESPONSE to events. They happen BEFORE the environmental pressure, but are strengthened and selected for by the pressure. So we don't get cool traits such as wings or clairvoyance just because we want it. There must be an environmental influence that selects for traits over generations.

Let me know if you have questions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Second, I want someone to explain to me how evolution works, how is it propagated, what is the mechanism driving it forward? I'm especially interested in a coherent explanation of "Random mutation"

Third, have human beings stopped evolving? What's next, genetic prosthetics, clairvoyance, wings?

Evolution works through a process called natural selection, which is a fancy way of saying that natural pressures weed out less viable organisms and/or allow better adapted organisms to survive. The mechanism is the environment of the organism, which is why evolution tends to appear faster when environments drastically change.

Let's take the example of a bacteria. When exposed to penicillin, our model bacteria dies. Game over. But let's say our bacteria friend reproduces one million times, something it can accomplish in 20 divisions, which some bacteria can get through in 7 hours. Say it gets a random fluke mutation in its genes one in every 1000 reproductions. Now most of those mutations will be absolutely useless. Most will actually result in death. But some will appear harmless, and of no benefit to our friendly bacteria. Until. We expose it to penicillin again. This time, that seemingly useless mutation allows the bacteria to barely survive a small dose of antibiotic, whereas all of its brothers and sisters get completely wiped out.

How sad. One little bacteria all alone. With the mutation that just happens to save it from low doses of antibiotic. 7 hours later, it has a million offspring, and the cycle repeats itself. Perhaps a high dose of penicillin will kill the original saving mutation, but at that point, a new mutation has arisen that protects the offspring from even high doses, making it invincible to penicillin. Even if all its siblings get eradicated, it remains to repopulate with the strong genes.

This is evolution in a nutshell: random mutations creating non-random selection.

As you can tell from the example, mutations do not happen IN RESPONSE to events. They happen BEFORE the environmental pressure, but are strengthened and selected for by the pressure. So we don't get cool traits such as wings or clairvoyance just because we want it. There must be an environmental influence that selects for traits over generations.

Let me know if you have questions.

There's where it gets a little messy for me.

Are you saying that at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals, at that very moment, a gamma ray that was ejected from the core of a supernova at the galactic center 25,000 years ago hits the DNA of a replicating bacteria AT THE PRECISE MOMENT OF REPLICATION and causes that DNA strand to um what, not disassemble, but spontaneously reassemble itself in a new order that proves beneficial to the bacterium.

Of all the millions of combination in all of the millions of strands of DNA that a single gamma ray could hit it knock a single electron in an atom of a GTCA strand and causes that electron to carom off other amino acids?

Is that how it works? What causes this random mutation?

Unless you're saying that the mutated gene is already there and the sole bacterium watches 999,999 of its friends dies and it alone survives and replicates? Yeah that has to be it because what you proposes as random mutation defies all odds, there's virtually no chance at all that it works the way you first proposed.

So the bacterium must hold a vast array of mutation waiting for their chance to spring forth! Maybe one is resistant to all mycins and is can survive as a MRSA in a hospital. Imagine the odds of that!! Maybe one has a mutated gene for tap dancing?

This is why I reject "Evolution" as I do "Intelligent Design" You are what you mock.

You suggest a process that has no chance at all of operating in this world, the odds of it working as you propose have to be out in numbers that cannot be computed like 10 * 80,000,000 ^ 280,000,000.

 

[HUGGY]

So who doesn't believe in evolution? Not abiogenesis, but evolution.

I find it really hard to grasp that some people don't believe in evolution, which is proven, and I think many of those who question "evolution" are actually questioning abiogenesis:

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Evolution has only been proven to exist INSIDE a species. There is no evidence that humans or animals have evolved from a totally different species.

This.
There is no evidence for one species becoming another. Biologists do not buy classic Darwinian theory.

You are painfully stupid. It is clear by your statements that evolution has a long bumpy road ahead for homo sapiens.

 

[eots]

DEVO-Jocko Homo lyrics


THEY TELL US THAT
WE LOST OUR TAILS
EVOLVING UP
FROM LITTLE SNAILS
I SAY IT'S ALL
JUST WIND IN SAILS
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
WE'RE PINHEADS NOW
WE ARE NOT WHOLE
WE'RE PINHEADS ALL
JOCKO HOMO
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D-E-V-O
MONKEY MEN ALL
IN BUSINESS SUIT
TEACHERS AND CRITICS
ALL DANCE THE POOT
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D-E-V-O
GOD MADE MAN
BUT HE USED THE MONKEY TO DO IT
APES IN THE PLAN
WE'RE ALL HERE TO PROVE IT
I CAN WALK LIKE AN APE
TALK LIKE AN APE
I CAN DO WHAT A MONKEY CAN DO
GOD MADE MAN
BUT A MONKEY SUPPLIED THE GLUE
WE MUST REPEAT
O.K. LET'S GO!

 

[Mad Scientist]

So who doesn't believe in evolution? Not abiogenesis, but evolution. I find it really hard to grasp that some people don't believe in evolution, which is proven, and I think many of those who question "evolution" are actually questioning abiogenesis.

You can't separate the two. People and animals have obviously evolved. What science never tells us is how it all started. Just funny stories about how it may have begun like the "Big Bang" or abiogenesis. Those are all just theories.

How or Who initiated the "Big Bang". No one can say for sure.

 

[HUGGY]

So who doesn't believe in evolution? Not abiogenesis, but evolution. I find it really hard to grasp that some people don't believe in evolution, which is proven, and I think many of those who question "evolution" are actually questioning abiogenesis.

You can't separate the two. People and animals have obviously evolved. What science never tells us is how it all started. Just funny stories about how it may have begun like the "Big Bang" or abiogenesis. Those are all just theories.

How or Who initiated the "Big Bang". No one can say for sure.

No Bad Scientist. You are wrong. There is plenty of information on the subject. One needs to be honest with themself and curious to absorb the truth.

 

[konradv]

Second, I want someone to explain to me how evolution works, how is it propagated, what is the mechanism driving it forward? I'm especially interested in a coherent explanation of "Random mutation"

Third, have human beings stopped evolving? What's next, genetic prosthetics, clairvoyance, wings?

Evolution works through a process called natural selection, which is a fancy way of saying that natural pressures weed out less viable organisms and/or allow better adapted organisms to survive. The mechanism is the environment of the organism, which is why evolution tends to appear faster when environments drastically change.

Let's take the example of a bacteria. When exposed to penicillin, our model bacteria dies. Game over. But let's say our bacteria friend reproduces one million times, something it can accomplish in 20 divisions, which some bacteria can get through in 7 hours. Say it gets a random fluke mutation in its genes one in every 1000 reproductions. Now most of those mutations will be absolutely useless. Most will actually result in death. But some will appear harmless, and of no benefit to our friendly bacteria. Until. We expose it to penicillin again. This time, that seemingly useless mutation allows the bacteria to barely survive a small dose of antibiotic, whereas all of its brothers and sisters get completely wiped out.

How sad. One little bacteria all alone. With the mutation that just happens to save it from low doses of antibiotic. 7 hours later, it has a million offspring, and the cycle repeats itself. Perhaps a high dose of penicillin will kill the original saving mutation, but at that point, a new mutation has arisen that protects the offspring from even high doses, making it invincible to penicillin. Even if all its siblings get eradicated, it remains to repopulate with the strong genes.

This is evolution in a nutshell: random mutations creating non-random selection.

As you can tell from the example, mutations do not happen IN RESPONSE to events. They happen BEFORE the environmental pressure, but are strengthened and selected for by the pressure. So we don't get cool traits such as wings or clairvoyance just because we want it. There must be an environmental influence that selects for traits over generations.

Let me know if you have questions.

There's where it gets a little messy for me.

Are you saying that at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals, at that very moment, a gamma ray that was ejected from the core of a supernova at the galactic center 25,000 years ago hits the DNA of a replicating bacteria AT THE PRECISE MOMENT OF REPLICATION and causes that DNA strand to um what, not disassemble, but spontaneously reassemble itself in a new order that proves beneficial to the bacterium.

Of all the millions of combination in all of the millions of strands of DNA that a single gamma ray could hit it knock a single electron in an atom of a GTCA strand and causes that electron to carom off other amino acids?

Is that how it works? What causes this random mutation?

Unless you're saying that the mutated gene is already there and the sole bacterium watches 999,999 of its friends dies and it alone survives and replicates? Yeah that has to be it because what you proposes as random mutation defies all odds, there's virtually no chance at all that it works the way you first proposed.

So the bacterium must hold a vast array of mutation waiting for their chance to spring forth! Maybe one is resistant to all mycins and is can survive as a MRSA in a hospital. Imagine the odds of that!! Maybe one has a mutated gene for tap dancing?

This is why I reject "Evolution" as I do "Intelligent Design" You are what you mock.

You suggest a process that has no chance at all of operating in this world, the odds of it working as you propose have to be out in numbers that cannot be computed like 10 * 80,000,000 ^ 280,000,000.

The BOLD part is where you seem to be getting it wrong. The "bacterium"(singular) need not hold a vast array of mutations, bacteria in general would. Also, random mutations are only one way of developing immunity. There's also the sharing and recombination of DNA with other bacteria and transfection from viruses, for example.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

There's where it gets a little messy for me.

Are you saying that at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals, at that very moment, a gamma ray that was ejected from the core of a supernova at the galactic center 25,000 years ago hits the DNA of a replicating bacteria AT THE PRECISE MOMENT OF REPLICATION and causes that DNA strand to um what, not disassemble, but spontaneously reassemble itself in a new order that proves beneficial to the bacterium.

Of all the millions of combination in all of the millions of strands of DNA that a single gamma ray could hit it knock a single electron in an atom of a GTCA strand and causes that electron to carom off other amino acids?

No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated that the mutation comes before the environmental pressure, NOT "at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals".

What causes this random mutation?

Mutations are most frequently a result of errors in replication: the cell meant to put one bit of DNA into it's new self, but accidentally put in another. They can also come about from radiation, but this happens less frequently. Similarly, you get tons of mutations in your skin every time you step into sunlight, but our genome has built in proofreading to correct genetic mistakes.

Unless you're saying that the mutated gene is already there and the sole bacterium watches 999,999 of its friends dies and it alone survives and replicates? Yeah that has to be it because what you proposes as random mutation defies all odds, there's virtually no chance at all that it works the way you first proposed.

So the bacterium must hold a vast array of mutation waiting for their chance to spring forth! Maybe one is resistant to all mycins and is can survive as a MRSA in a hospital. Imagine the odds of that!! Maybe one has a mutated gene for tap dancing?

Well no. As the previous person said, each bacterium can hold one mutation, and whichever mutation allows for survival is what gets passed on to rebuild the colony. Furthermore, bacteria can share genes in a few ways, which means they can pass around the protective mutations as well, after mutation establishes them.

But let's go back to your silly math and ideas of defying all odds. Ecoli have about 4 million different places for a mutation. A single E.coli can create 4 million progeny in about 8 hours. Even IF mutations only occur every 1 in a thousand replications, that means statistically every place can be mutated in less than half a day. There is further complexity to the math when you factor in HOW things are getting changes, or deletions, or additions, but the idea that it is impossible just because you can't count past 100 is silly.

 

[Father Time]

Why is it hard to believe God could have planned for evolution?

I don't know.

If I were God I'd just lay back on a cloud and fire up my Evolution Engine to make species instead of personally designing all the countless millions that have existed on this planet.

 

[Father Time]

So who doesn't believe in evolution? Not abiogenesis, but evolution. I find it really hard to grasp that some people don't believe in evolution, which is proven, and I think many of those who question "evolution" are actually questioning abiogenesis.

You can't separate the two. People and animals have obviously evolved. What science never tells us is how it all started. Just funny stories about how it may have begun like the "Big Bang" or abiogenesis. Those are all just theories.

Just theories?

Sigh.

In a scientific sense theory doesn't mean guess.

 

[geauxtohell]

Evolution has only been proven to exist INSIDE a species.

...And when enough of those changes occur, a new species is designated.

Careful. You'll confuse the nutters who apparently believe in a nickle, but not a dime or a quarter.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There's where it gets a little messy for me.

Are you saying that at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals, at that very moment, a gamma ray that was ejected from the core of a supernova at the galactic center 25,000 years ago hits the DNA of a replicating bacteria AT THE PRECISE MOMENT OF REPLICATION and causes that DNA strand to um what, not disassemble, but spontaneously reassemble itself in a new order that proves beneficial to the bacterium.

Of all the millions of combination in all of the millions of strands of DNA that a single gamma ray could hit it knock a single electron in an atom of a GTCA strand and causes that electron to carom off other amino acids?

No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated that the mutation comes before the environmental pressure, NOT "at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals".

What causes this random mutation?

Mutations are most frequently a result of errors in replication: the cell meant to put one bit of DNA into it's new self, but accidentally put in another. They can also come about from radiation, but this happens less frequently. Similarly, you get tons of mutations in your skin every time you step into sunlight, but our genome has built in proofreading to correct genetic mistakes.

Unless you're saying that the mutated gene is already there and the sole bacterium watches 999,999 of its friends dies and it alone survives and replicates? Yeah that has to be it because what you proposes as random mutation defies all odds, there's virtually no chance at all that it works the way you first proposed.

So the bacterium must hold a vast array of mutation waiting for their chance to spring forth! Maybe one is resistant to all mycins and is can survive as a MRSA in a hospital. Imagine the odds of that!! Maybe one has a mutated gene for tap dancing?

Well no. As the previous person said, each bacterium can hold one mutation, and whichever mutation allows for survival is what gets passed on to rebuild the colony. Furthermore, bacteria can share genes in a few ways, which means they can pass around the protective mutations as well, after mutation establishes them.

But let's go back to your silly math and ideas of defying all odds. Ecoli have about 4 million different places for a mutation. A single E.coli can create 4 million progeny in about 8 hours. Even IF mutations only occur every 1 in a thousand replications, that means statistically every place can be mutated in less than half a day. There is further complexity to the math when you factor in HOW things are getting changes, or deletions, or additions, but the idea that it is impossible just because you can't count past 100 is silly.

You happen to be correct about how bacterium share information, I guess if you type enough sentences aided by Google you're likely to get one correct.

You completely missed and/or glossed over my point about these random useful mutations. Not surprising. The ODDS of some "random mutation" creating the EXACT mutation necessary to defeat the latest mycin are...well, let's take a step back first.

Once bacterium develop a resistance to a drug, they NEVER mutate that resistance away. They are resistant to penicillin, they will be resistant to penicillin in another million generations. There is a mechanism in the bacterium that make these resistances additive and permanent.

The reason your colony of mutants collapses is that's not how bacterium work. If they were all mutated, they would not survive, because the vast, overwhelming majority of mutations are harmful (that's why they're called mutations). Moreover, by constant exposure to antibiotics, we are actually breeding the super bugs we fear. MRSA do not exists out in the wilderness, they only exist where we created them. (I have personal reasons for discussing these particular bacterium because I had two personal experiences with staff A, but thankfully was not MRSA)

The bacterium transmit their useful mutations so if they already had the mutation, they would have transmitted it and that's not what happens. They develop the resistance, then transmit the new resistance to the others.

Also, I'm glad to see even you have finally realized how completely ridiculous is the notion of radiation causing these "random mutations"

 

[geauxtohell]

There's where it gets a little messy for me.

Are you saying that at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals, at that very moment, a gamma ray that was ejected from the core of a supernova at the galactic center 25,000 years ago hits the DNA of a replicating bacteria AT THE PRECISE MOMENT OF REPLICATION and causes that DNA strand to um what, not disassemble, but spontaneously reassemble itself in a new order that proves beneficial to the bacterium.

Of all the millions of combination in all of the millions of strands of DNA that a single gamma ray could hit it knock a single electron in an atom of a GTCA strand and causes that electron to carom off other amino acids?

No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated that the mutation comes before the environmental pressure, NOT "at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals".


Mutations are most frequently a result of errors in replication: the cell meant to put one bit of DNA into it's new self, but accidentally put in another. They can also come about from radiation, but this happens less frequently. Similarly, you get tons of mutations in your skin every time you step into sunlight, but our genome has built in proofreading to correct genetic mistakes.

Unless you're saying that the mutated gene is already there and the sole bacterium watches 999,999 of its friends dies and it alone survives and replicates? Yeah that has to be it because what you proposes as random mutation defies all odds, there's virtually no chance at all that it works the way you first proposed.

So the bacterium must hold a vast array of mutation waiting for their chance to spring forth! Maybe one is resistant to all mycins and is can survive as a MRSA in a hospital. Imagine the odds of that!! Maybe one has a mutated gene for tap dancing?

Well no. As the previous person said, each bacterium can hold one mutation, and whichever mutation allows for survival is what gets passed on to rebuild the colony. Furthermore, bacteria can share genes in a few ways, which means they can pass around the protective mutations as well, after mutation establishes them.

But let's go back to your silly math and ideas of defying all odds. Ecoli have about 4 million different places for a mutation. A single E.coli can create 4 million progeny in about 8 hours. Even IF mutations only occur every 1 in a thousand replications, that means statistically every place can be mutated in less than half a day. There is further complexity to the math when you factor in HOW things are getting changes, or deletions, or additions, but the idea that it is impossible just because you can't count past 100 is silly.

You happen to be correct about how bacterium share information, I guess if you type enough sentences aided by Google you're likely to get one correct.

You completely missed and/or glossed over my point about these random useful mutations. Not surprising. The ODDS of some "random mutation" creating the EXACT mutation necessary to defeat the latest mycin are...well, let's take a step back first.

Once bacterium develop a resistance to a drug, they NEVER mutate that resistance away. They are resistant to penicillin, they will be resistant to penicillin in another million generations. There is a mechanism in the bacterium that make these resistances additive and permanent.

The reason your colony of mutants collapses is that's not how bacterium work. If they were all mutated, they would not survive, because the vast, overwhelming majority of mutations are harmful (that's why they're called mutations). Moreover, by constant exposure to antibiotics, we are actually breeding the super bugs we fear. MRSA do not exists out in the wilderness, they only exist where we created them. (I have personal reasons for discussing these particular bacterium because I had two personal experiences with staff A, but thankfully was not MRSA)

The bacterium transmit their useful mutations so if they already had the mutation, they would have transmitted it and that's not what happens. They develop the resistance, then transmit the new resistance to the others.

Also, I'm glad to see even you have finally realized how completely ridiculous is the notion of radiation causing these "random mutations"

Hey Francis;

Before you lecture another person about having to "use google" to boost their scientific literacy, you should be aware that the SA in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus aureus not "staff A" (whatever the hell that is).

Also, you (like most other people) most likely are colonized with MRSA in addition to the typical MSSA, Strept, and a host of other bacterium.

I am not begging for a nasty MRSA abscess, but I don't really get why people are so petrified by it considering that multiple other antibiotics (i.e. clindamycin and bactrim) do a sufficient job of covering it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No, I didn't say that at all. In fact, I explicitly stated that the mutation comes before the environmental pressure, NOT "at the exact moment when the bacteria is being subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of deadly chemicals".


Mutations are most frequently a result of errors in replication: the cell meant to put one bit of DNA into it's new self, but accidentally put in another. They can also come about from radiation, but this happens less frequently. Similarly, you get tons of mutations in your skin every time you step into sunlight, but our genome has built in proofreading to correct genetic mistakes.



Well no. As the previous person said, each bacterium can hold one mutation, and whichever mutation allows for survival is what gets passed on to rebuild the colony. Furthermore, bacteria can share genes in a few ways, which means they can pass around the protective mutations as well, after mutation establishes them.

But let's go back to your silly math and ideas of defying all odds. Ecoli have about 4 million different places for a mutation. A single E.coli can create 4 million progeny in about 8 hours. Even IF mutations only occur every 1 in a thousand replications, that means statistically every place can be mutated in less than half a day. There is further complexity to the math when you factor in HOW things are getting changes, or deletions, or additions, but the idea that it is impossible just because you can't count past 100 is silly.

You happen to be correct about how bacterium share information, I guess if you type enough sentences aided by Google you're likely to get one correct.

You completely missed and/or glossed over my point about these random useful mutations. Not surprising. The ODDS of some "random mutation" creating the EXACT mutation necessary to defeat the latest mycin are...well, let's take a step back first.

Once bacterium develop a resistance to a drug, they NEVER mutate that resistance away. They are resistant to penicillin, they will be resistant to penicillin in another million generations. There is a mechanism in the bacterium that make these resistances additive and permanent.

The reason your colony of mutants collapses is that's not how bacterium work. If they were all mutated, they would not survive, because the vast, overwhelming majority of mutations are harmful (that's why they're called mutations). Moreover, by constant exposure to antibiotics, we are actually breeding the super bugs we fear. MRSA do not exists out in the wilderness, they only exist where we created them. (I have personal reasons for discussing these particular bacterium because I had two personal experiences with staff A, but thankfully was not MRSA)

The bacterium transmit their useful mutations so if they already had the mutation, they would have transmitted it and that's not what happens. They develop the resistance, then transmit the new resistance to the others.

Also, I'm glad to see even you have finally realized how completely ridiculous is the notion of radiation causing these "random mutations"

Hey Francis;

Before you lecture another person about having to "use google" to boost their scientific literacy, you should be aware that the SA in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus aureus not "staff A" (whatever the hell that is).

Also, you (like most other people) most likely are colonized with MRSA in addition to the typical MSSA, Strept, and a host of other bacterium.

I am not begging for a nasty MRSA abscess, but I don't really get why people are so petrified by it considering that multiple other antibiotics (i.e. clindamycin and bactrim) do a sufficient job of covering it.

"Staff A" was the phrase used by the head of infectious diseases at Long Island Jewish Hospital. Take it up with him.

 

[geauxtohell]

You happen to be correct about how bacterium share information, I guess if you type enough sentences aided by Google you're likely to get one correct.

You completely missed and/or glossed over my point about these random useful mutations. Not surprising. The ODDS of some "random mutation" creating the EXACT mutation necessary to defeat the latest mycin are...well, let's take a step back first.

Once bacterium develop a resistance to a drug, they NEVER mutate that resistance away. They are resistant to penicillin, they will be resistant to penicillin in another million generations. There is a mechanism in the bacterium that make these resistances additive and permanent.

The reason your colony of mutants collapses is that's not how bacterium work. If they were all mutated, they would not survive, because the vast, overwhelming majority of mutations are harmful (that's why they're called mutations). Moreover, by constant exposure to antibiotics, we are actually breeding the super bugs we fear. MRSA do not exists out in the wilderness, they only exist where we created them. (I have personal reasons for discussing these particular bacterium because I had two personal experiences with staff A, but thankfully was not MRSA)

The bacterium transmit their useful mutations so if they already had the mutation, they would have transmitted it and that's not what happens. They develop the resistance, then transmit the new resistance to the others.

Also, I'm glad to see even you have finally realized how completely ridiculous is the notion of radiation causing these "random mutations"

Hey Francis;

Before you lecture another person about having to "use google" to boost their scientific literacy, you should be aware that the SA in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus aureus not "staff A" (whatever the hell that is).

Also, you (like most other people) most likely are colonized with MRSA in addition to the typical MSSA, Strept, and a host of other bacterium.

I am not begging for a nasty MRSA abscess, but I don't really get why people are so petrified by it considering that multiple other antibiotics (i.e. clindamycin and bactrim) do a sufficient job of covering it.

"Staff A" was the phrase used by the head of infection diseases at Long Island Jewish Hospital. Take it up with him.

Yeah. "Staph A" as in Staphylococcus aureus and not "Staff A".

I take it you've never had any sort of formal training in microbiology?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey Francis;

Before you lecture another person about having to "use google" to boost their scientific literacy, you should be aware that the SA in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus aureus not "staff A" (whatever the hell that is).

Also, you (like most other people) most likely are colonized with MRSA in addition to the typical MSSA, Strept, and a host of other bacterium.

I am not begging for a nasty MRSA abscess, but I don't really get why people are so petrified by it considering that multiple other antibiotics (i.e. clindamycin and bactrim) do a sufficient job of covering it.

"Staff A" was the phrase used by the head of infection diseases at Long Island Jewish Hospital. Take it up with him.

Yeah. "Staph A" as in Staphylococcus aureus and not "Staff A".

I take it you've never had any sort of formal training in microbiology?

Yes, I see how that makes a big difference.

Thank you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I need a degree in microbiology to read and understand and discuss what almost croaked me?

LOL

 

[Cecilie1200]

Excuse me for coming in so late to this discussion, and let me just add my own two cents.

I don't believe in evolution. Despite the OP's assertion to the contrary, it has NOT been proven. I tend toward disbelief at the moment, although I am not particularly married to that position. I just see no point in believing in something with so little hard evidence and so many frauds presented in place of evidence.

And when I say "evolution", I don't mean "change over time", or "change and mutation within a species", or "abiogenesis" (but thanks so much to the OP for that projection onto others. I always love a good Wikipedia scientist ). I am specifically referring to Darwinism, aka Darwin's theory of evolution.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey Francis;

Before you lecture another person about having to "use google" to boost their scientific literacy, you should be aware that the SA in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus aureus not "staff A" (whatever the hell that is).

Also, you (like most other people) most likely are colonized with MRSA in addition to the typical MSSA, Strept, and a host of other bacterium.

I am not begging for a nasty MRSA abscess, but I don't really get why people are so petrified by it considering that multiple other antibiotics (i.e. clindamycin and bactrim) do a sufficient job of covering it.

"Staff A" was the phrase used by the head of infection diseases at Long Island Jewish Hospital. Take it up with him.

Yeah. "Staph A" as in Staphylococcus aureus and not "Staff A".

I take it you've never had any sort of formal training in microbiology?

That's it?

That's your contribution?

 

[geauxtohell]

Yes, I see how that makes a big difference.

Thank you.

Just keeping it all straight. I normally don't like people who nitpick, but when it comes to medical science, God is in the details.

I need a degree in microbiology to read and understand and discuss what almost croaked me?

LOL

Of course not, but you do look somewhat silly when you castigate the knowledge base of others and aren't fully aware of what bug you even had. Of the gram positive cocci, you basically have the Staph family and the Strept family (with Enterococcus thrown in).

I mean, this could get waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy down in the weeds in regards to prokaryotic morphology, physiology, and genetics. So you might as well have the very basics down.