Who here has NOT benefitted from hydraulic fracturing?

[RGR]

As I watch the back and forth between those who understand what hydraulic fracturing is, and what it isn't, I began to wonder…based on the prevalence of this technique (there were already more than 100,000 hydo-frac completions before 1955) is it even POSSIBLE that every man, woman and child in the United States hasn't ALREADY benefited from this oilfield completion technique?

From the oil is has allowed to be produced onshore and off down through more than half a century now, and only recently noticed when it opened up large scale production from tight and shale fields of America, can a SINGLE person claim to have not benefitted from it….now…and even BEFORE they were taught to hate it?

Put some in their fuel tank on their car? Used products derived from its natural ability to be a wonderful chemical feedstock? Taken a flight using it in the jet fuel? Been protected by the military using it to run their tanks and planes? Heated their water or home? Drank some beer that utilized natural gas somewhere in the distilling process? Had the place where they work increase sales because of sales of some of the components to hydro-frack, be it sand or hotel rooms to the workers? Increased business because of low prices caused by the abundance of natural gas this technique has created in America, allowing them to spend their money on discretionary things instead of just heating or cooling? Work for a construction company building natural gas fired power plants to replace coal? Building the housing for those folks? Or selling them their new cars…all made possible by this kind of economic benefit?

Hadn't really thought about the scale and scope of this before, but can ANYONE claim to have NOT benefitted from the economic benefit of this thing? The whiners, the complainers, the NIMBYs, the eco-believers, human-haters, I mean really, can any group or even INDIVIDUAL claim to have not benefited? Much more INTERESTINGLY, would ANY of these groups or individuals be willing to give up that benefit, for the privilege of being able to whine about the horrors of hydro-fracing with clean hands? Hell, would they ins't right, COULD they?

 

[Mr. H.]

"...before they were taught to hate it".

Isn't it ironic - for the thousands of Ohio shale wells that have been fracked without a single incident... 500,000 residents are without potable water. Because of an algae bloom in Lake Erie.

Even though Illinois passed a hydraulic fracturing bill last year, not a single well has been drilled under the new legislation. The "education" campaign is in full force spreading lies and instilling hate among the Liberals and environmentalists of this state. It's absolutely pathetic.

 

[itfitzme]

A benefit-benefit analysis?

 

[WinterBorn]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

 

[Mr. H.]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

Congratulations. You've earned today's "Bitch-Slap Award".

 

[Moonglow]

Fickle Finger of Fate From Frickin' Frackin' Figures Fine...

 

[RGR]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

You wouldn't know it from the haters though would you? Fracking ruined my sex life! Fracking caused me to age! Fracking caused the Atlantic to be populated and Fukishima to happen!

While a bit over the top I realize, I'm am racking my brain to try and recall a single anti who ever said.."well sure...so I got cheap natural gas to heat my house, and I got a raise at work because the economy is doing better.....and I sure think it is good that we are producing american fuels for american consumers....oh yeah, and that fracking thiing that made all this possible sure sucks!".

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

 

[WinterBorn]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

You wouldn't know it from the haters though would you? Fracking ruined my sex life! Fracking caused me to age! Fracking caused the Atlantic to be populated and Fukishima to happen!

While a bit over the top I realize, I'm am racking my brain to try and recall a single anti who ever said.."well sure...so I got cheap natural gas to heat my house, and I got a raise at work because the economy is doing better.....and I sure think it is good that we are producing american fuels for american consumers....oh yeah, and that fracking thiing that made all this possible sure sucks!".

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

If yu have to choose between The Sierra Club and BP? Choose The Sierra club.

First they have a much better record of telling the truth. Second, if there is an error, it will come out with further research and you will have only caused a delay. If there is an error the other way, you cannot undo the damage.


It is funny that you seem absolutely sure that fracking does not ever pollute freshwater aquifers. Because there is no way to guarantee how the rock will crack or how the fluids put down will flow. Also, you do not even know for sure what is pumped into those holes, since the companies are not required to report it.

BP said they took care of the safety issues on the Deepwater Horizon too. Remember how that worked out? I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

 

[Mr. H.]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

You wouldn't know it from the haters though would you? Fracking ruined my sex life! Fracking caused me to age! Fracking caused the Atlantic to be populated and Fukishima to happen!

While a bit over the top I realize, I'm am racking my brain to try and recall a single anti who ever said.."well sure...so I got cheap natural gas to heat my house, and I got a raise at work because the economy is doing better.....and I sure think it is good that we are producing american fuels for american consumers....oh yeah, and that fracking thiing that made all this possible sure sucks!".

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

If yu have to choose between The Sierra Club and BP? Choose The Sierra club.

First they have a much better record of telling the truth. Second, if there is an error, it will come out with further research and you will have only caused a delay. If there is an error the other way, you cannot undo the damage.


It is funny that you seem absolutely sure that fracking does not ever pollute freshwater aquifers. Because there is no way to guarantee how the rock will crack or how the fluids put down will flow. Also, you do not even know for sure what is pumped into those holes, since the companies are not required to report it.

BP said they took care of the safety issues on the Deepwater Horizon too. Remember how that worked out? I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

Congratulations, you have earned today's second Bitch Slap Award.

A 29 Kiloton nuclear device is detonated in a 4,200 ft. well. The result? Well... read for yourself, Sierra Club-educated moron:

"Gasbuggy" tests Nuclear Fracking |American Oil & Gas History

 

[WinterBorn]

You wouldn't know it from the haters though would you? Fracking ruined my sex life! Fracking caused me to age! Fracking caused the Atlantic to be populated and Fukishima to happen!

While a bit over the top I realize, I'm am racking my brain to try and recall a single anti who ever said.."well sure...so I got cheap natural gas to heat my house, and I got a raise at work because the economy is doing better.....and I sure think it is good that we are producing american fuels for american consumers....oh yeah, and that fracking thiing that made all this possible sure sucks!".



So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

If yu have to choose between The Sierra Club and BP? Choose The Sierra club.

First they have a much better record of telling the truth. Second, if there is an error, it will come out with further research and you will have only caused a delay. If there is an error the other way, you cannot undo the damage.


It is funny that you seem absolutely sure that fracking does not ever pollute freshwater aquifers. Because there is no way to guarantee how the rock will crack or how the fluids put down will flow. Also, you do not even know for sure what is pumped into those holes, since the companies are not required to report it.

BP said they took care of the safety issues on the Deepwater Horizon too. Remember how that worked out? I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

Congratulations, you have earned today's second Bitch Slap Award.

A 29 Kiloton nuclear device is detonated in a 4,200 ft. well. The result? Well... read for yourself, Sierra Club-educated moron:

"Gasbuggy" tests Nuclear Fracking |American Oil & Gas History

So let me see if I get what you are saying. They use explosives or fluids injected under high pressure to crack the shale. And you think they know exactly where those cracks will go and are sure they will never enter any water source?

And you have no idea what is in the fluids they inject, because they are not required to disclose that.

And you trust the oil companies to have your best interest at heart and to not lie to you, even though they have shown over and over and over and over that they do not give a shit and will lie thru their teeth.


And yet you think I am the moron?? lmao

 

[RGR]

So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

If yu have to choose between The Sierra Club and BP? Choose The Sierra club.

Wrong answer. You don't trust EITHER. It can be argued that both are advocacy groups, and therefore neither has an objective view of the situation, in terms of cost, or benefit.

Certainly I don't trust non-engineers at the Sierra Club to even understand hydraulic fracturing any more than I do industry to want anything to do with even reasonable amounts of regulation on their business....particularly when it is generated by the oil-ignorant who don't even understand the costs...or benefits...of industry in general, let alone one so different from others.

First they have a much better record of telling the truth.

No they don't. They sell their position, just as industry sells theirs.

Second, if there is an error, it will come out with further research and you will have only caused a delay.

Horseshit. The only "error" from the perspective of the greens is how do they disguise from their legions of believers the increased costs (because of decreased benefits) their position is about to clobber them with.

We aren't talking about last years hydraulic fracturing, but more than half a centuries worth, and it has been amazing what the greens have been able to sell fear on a topic that was so horrifying damaging that NO ONE EVEN NOTICED IT WAS HAPPENING FOR THE FIRST 60 YEARS IT WAS BEING DONE.

Amazing sales job, that.

If there is an error the other way, you cannot undo the damage.

Of course you can. I have personally destroyed well integrity while doing hydraulic fracturing, and stopped it on the spot. Backup systems (otherwise known as steel and concrete) did their jobs keeping the fluids out of fresh water aquifers, and I cleaned up the mess, fixed the casing, and moved on.

It is funny that you seem absolutely sure that fracking does not ever pollute freshwater aquifers.

Oh, I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying that I knew within seconds during a frack job when I had lost system integrity, and stopped the job within seconds. Anti's appear to be under the impression that people just do these things willy nilly without thinking about them (or noticing the consequences of a bad frack job screaming up the backside at them, turning the well into a good imitation of Old Faithful).

I assume this happens because Green Peace, or the greens in general, haven't ever supervised frack jobs, cleaned them up, don't want to hire the petroleum engineerins to explain to them how they work, etc etc.

It should be noted, none of those things are required if your primary goal is to just sell the FEAR of a thing, rather than the actual consequences of the thing.

As far as pollution of freshwater aquifers in general, the reason why it is near impossible to pollute them is called "physics". Specifically, the physics of how differential pressure works before, during, and after a hydraulic stimulation is complete. There is a REASON you don't see the Sierra Club talking about this, EVER, and it is because to sell the fear, you must ignore reservoir dynamics, grounded in a science that the Sierra Club certainly hasn't found a way around yet.

Because there is no way to guarantee how the rock will crack or how the fluids put down will flow.

There is no way to guarantee that you will be alive tomorrow. Yet you act as though you will be. Why? Because knowing your health and age, odds are, you will be. Hydraulic fracturing is no different. Stress fields do not suddenly change to allow frac fluids through vertical permeability that is usually an order of magnitude HIGHER than horizontal permeability. Rock Mechanics 101. I'll bet you can't find the Sierra Club mentioning that one either. I wonder why?

Also, you do not even know for sure what is pumped into those holes, since the companies are not required to report it.

Should I trust you to drive a car? After all, you aren't required to say where you will be driving it! I know you have the car, nearly everyone drives it, but I don't know because you are not required to report it! Therefore...you must be doing something else with it...and how dare you not tell the authorities!!

How about we try and make a GOOD argument?

BP said they took care of the safety issues on the Deepwater Horizon too. Remember how that worked out? I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

I know exactly how it worked out. Not only did I know someone on the rig (who made it off) but I was consulted during the blowout on the techniques related to directional drilling and how they would be used to intercept the original wellbore.

While I understand the tendencies of humans nowadays to want to believe that all industrial operations are perfect....they aren't. And the risk at providing the oil and natural gas that YOU AND THE SIERRA CLUB DEMAND is just part of the game, part of the cost, to deliver to YOU the benefit of what you DEMAND.

Putting the oil and gas companies out of business is so easy, it is ridiculous. Stop using their products. But again, you won't see that point being made by the Sierra Club...or YOU...either. Why? Because it would require a change in lifestyle on your part, and your very desire to continue living the way you do right now is what REQUIRES development of oil and gas resources.

 

[RGR]

So let me see if I get what you are saying. They use explosives or fluids injected under high pressure to crack the shale. And you think they know exactly where those cracks will go and are sure they will never enter any water source?

Stop. Nearly every oil and gas reservoir known to man HAS WATER SOURCES CONTAINED WITHIN IT. We call it connate water. And the frack water going into these formations is BETTER water quaity than that already there.

And you have no idea what is in the fluids they inject, because they are not required to disclose that.

Of COURSE I know what fluids I was injecting, BECAUSE I WAS IN CHARGE OF INJECTING THEM. I supervised these procedures when doing recompletions in shale wells many years ago. Certainly pre- the haters showing up and pretending it was something new and dangerous.

And I've got news, it was called....wait for it....WATER. Pretty horrible stuff, did you know you it is a poison?

Fatal water intoxication

You should be scared when taking a bath. Hell, we need government regulation and hazmat suits before you run the dishwasher!!

And you trust the oil companies to have your best interest at heart and to not lie to you, even though they have shown over and over and over and over that they do not give a shit and will lie thru their teeth.

Them lying, and you not understanding properly because you've been sold a bill of goods, or know nothing about the industry, are two different things.

As far as "not giving a shit" you are 100% wrong. As an industry engineer I paid attention to every rule and regulation, no matter what idiot regulator had written it. Liability risk to the company is too great otherwise. As far as Deep Water Horizon, your example, that wasn't a lie, or regulation issue. It was no different than that heart attack which can stop you dead in your tracks tomorrow. Doesn't matter that you only eat salads and run marathons....mother nature sometimes comes along and deals out lessons on uncertainty and risk that we don't even appreciate until they happen to us.

And yet you think I am the moron?? lmao

No. You just don't know dick about the oil field, and have some really inaccurate preconceived notions. Not a surprise, I've had to explain basic field procedures to petroleum engineers because they spent their lives with their noses buried in reservoir simulators, and don't understand some of the simple notions necessary to stay alive while drilling wells into a planet that occasionally deals up heart attacks on those trying to pincushion it looking for oil and gas.

 

[WinterBorn]

So let me see if I get what you are saying. They use explosives or fluids injected under high pressure to crack the shale. And you think they know exactly where those cracks will go and are sure they will never enter any water source?

Stop. Nearly every oil and gas reservoir known to man HAS WATER SOURCES CONTAINED WITHIN IT. We call it connate water. And the frack water going into these formations is BETTER water quaity than that already there.

And you have no idea what is in the fluids they inject, because they are not required to disclose that.

Of COURSE I know what fluids I was injecting, BECAUSE I WAS IN CHARGE OF INJECTING THEM. I supervised these procedures when doing recompletions in shale wells many years ago. Certainly pre- the haters showing up and pretending it was something new and dangerous.

And I've got news, it was called....wait for it....WATER. Pretty horrible stuff, did you know you it is a poison?

Fatal water intoxication

You should be scared when taking a bath. Hell, we need government regulation and hazmat suits before you run the dishwasher!!

And you trust the oil companies to have your best interest at heart and to not lie to you, even though they have shown over and over and over and over that they do not give a shit and will lie thru their teeth.

Them lying, and you not understanding properly because you've been sold a bill of goods, or know nothing about the industry, are two different things.

As far as "not giving a shit" you are 100% wrong. As an industry engineer I paid attention to every rule and regulation, no matter what idiot regulator had written it. Liability risk to the company is too great otherwise. As far as Deep Water Horizon, your example, that wasn't a lie, or regulation issue. It was no different than that heart attack which can stop you dead in your tracks tomorrow. Doesn't matter that you only eat salads and run marathons....mother nature sometimes comes along and deals out lessons on uncertainty and risk that we don't even appreciate until they happen to us.

And yet you think I am the moron?? lmao

No. You just don't know dick about the oil field, and have some really inaccurate preconceived notions. Not a surprise, I've had to explain basic field procedures to petroleum engineers because they spent their lives with their noses buried in reservoir simulators, and don't understand some of the simple notions necessary to stay alive while drilling wells into a planet that occasionally deals up heart attacks on those trying to pincushion it looking for oil and gas.

As far as the deepwater Horizon incident, look at the number of safety violations charged against BP. They had one of the worst safety records in the industry. The failure that caused the incident happened due to something that an engineer said should be fixed and was not.

Also, the claims by BP that the spill was cleaned up is an outright lie. They sprayed chemicals to make the oil sink out of sight. If we can't see it the oil isn't there? lol

 

[RGR]

As far as the deepwater Horizon incident, look at the number of safety violations charged against BP.

So what? Regulators issue "violations" every day of the week, do you want to know what the most popular "violation" was for the last oil company I worked for? Improper identification of the well...wind blew the sign over, it weathered out, or some hunters shot it full of holes.

If you think "violation" is synonymous with the blowout that downed the Deepwater Horizon, then you are just proving my point about the oil-ignorant being so ignorant they shouldn't even be allowed to say the word "oil" for fear of screwing it up.

They had one of the worst safety records in the industry. The failure that caused the incident happened due to something that an engineer said should be fixed and was not.

You are incorrect. There was no one thing that caused the Deepwater Horizon, so there was no one thing to "fix". Every thing done that day had been done before...and notice that all of those "things" hadn't caused a Deepwater Horizon incident.

Again, there is a reason why the oil-ignorant aren't involved in the postmortem of this events, you don't even know how these systems work, let alone the possible combinations to cause a Deepwater Horizon like event.

Also, the claims by BP that the spill was cleaned up is an outright lie. They sprayed chemicals to make the oil sink out of sight. If we can't see it the oil isn't there? lol

Cleaning up a mess is a completely different issue, and completely conditional on the original event itself. And I will make a bet with you....the lying you claim, the sprayed chemicals, the horror of the cleanup...I will bet that since that day, you have PERSONALLY put fuel in your tank derived in part from GOM production.

You see, it is easy to complain, and moan how awful things are, and BP is a bad company, but it didn't cause you for a MINUTE to think..."gee...this bothers me so much I will stop demanding these products".....

Funny how this works..ever since you began posting in this thread, you have devolved right down to the complaints against big, bad oil and gas companies. But you are undoubtedly using their products, just as I hypothesized in the OP.

You will talk the talk, but you will NOT walk the walk. Just...like....everyone...else.

 

[WinterBorn]

As far as the deepwater Horizon incident, look at the number of safety violations charged against BP.

So what? Regulators issue "violations" every day of the week, do you want to know what the most popular "violation" was for the last oil company I worked for? Improper identification of the well...wind blew the sign over, it weathered out, or some hunters shot it full of holes.

If you think "violation" is synonymous with the blowout that downed the Deepwater Horizon, then you are just proving my point about the oil-ignorant being so ignorant they shouldn't even be allowed to say the word "oil" for fear of screwing it up.

They had one of the worst safety records in the industry. The failure that caused the incident happened due to something that an engineer said should be fixed and was not.

You are incorrect. There was no one thing that caused the Deepwater Horizon, so there was no one thing to "fix". Every thing done that day had been done before...and notice that all of those "things" hadn't caused a Deepwater Horizon incident.

Again, there is a reason why the oil-ignorant aren't involved in the postmortem of this events, you don't even know how these systems work, let alone the possible combinations to cause a Deepwater Horizon like event.

Also, the claims by BP that the spill was cleaned up is an outright lie. They sprayed chemicals to make the oil sink out of sight. If we can't see it the oil isn't there? lol

Cleaning up a mess is a completely different issue, and completely conditional on the original event itself. And I will make a bet with you....the lying you claim, the sprayed chemicals, the horror of the cleanup...I will bet that since that day, you have PERSONALLY put fuel in your tank derived in part from GOM production.

You see, it is easy to complain, and moan how awful things are, and BP is a bad company, but it didn't cause you for a MINUTE to think..."gee...this bothers me so much I will stop demanding these products".....

Funny how this works..ever since you began posting in this thread, you have devolved right down to the complaints against big, bad oil and gas companies. But you are undoubtedly using their products, just as I hypothesized in the OP.

You will talk the talk, but you will NOT walk the walk. Just...like....everyone...else.

Indeed I am still using their products. Because I have no choice but to do so. Because I use petroleum products does not mean I relinquish all rights to demand safe work from oil companies.

And by your logic, since you have paid your taxes every year, you have no right to complain about any actions or inactions by the gov't.

Also, I am not badmouthing all oil companies. I singled out BP as an example of oil companies lying. You took offense. But my comments stand.

I also called out BP on their safety record. This is well documented and involves far more than a few signs being knocked over or weather. In 3 years BP had 760 serious safety violations. By way of comparison, Exxon had 3. You are correct in your assumption that I have not worked in the oil & gas industry. But I have years of experience as a safety professional in the utility construction industry. And 760 serious violations in 3 years is a pitiful record.

Also, the issues noted by the engineers was not a minor one. The safety valve that blew (causing the incident) had not been serviced in at least 10 years, despite the recommendation that they be fully inspected every 3 to 5 years. That is willful negligence.

 

[RGR]

Indeed I am still using their products.

Using them indeed. As are those protesting and locking themselves to pipelines, firing up websites that misrepresent oilfield practice for their own ends, trying to get everyone else to buy into their fear meme....but as I mentioned in the OP, how many of them would even TRY to stop their habit, let alone succeed, for those with even a smidgen of the courage of their convictions.

Because I have no choice but to do so.

of COURSE you have a choice....you just don't LIKE the choice.

Because I use petroleum products does not mean I relinquish all rights to demand safe work from oil companies.

True. And your elected representatives, through their regulatory authority, are responsible for giving you EXACTLY that. Have you ever worked for an oil company? I can assure you that safety is taken beyond extreme when compared to REAL things that can kill you, like big rig truck drivers, or your neighbors behind the wheel of their family auto.

It is far more likely that you will be directly impacted by your idiot neighbors or a lightning strike than something jumping up and biting you from an oil company. Yet here you are, worried about THEM, instead of shivering in fear when you get into your auto and motoring down the street. Funny how that works, isn't it?

And by your logic, since you have paid your taxes every year, you have no right to complain about any actions or inactions by the gov't.

Oh, I agree that EVERYONE has the right to complain. And vote, if the actions of their elected representatives annoys them. My fascination is with those who complain without even an inkling of understanding as to the position from which they complain. A position only made POSSIBLE because of the thing they are complaining about. The irony is pretty severe.

Also, I am not badmouthing all oil companies. I singled out BP as an example of oil companies lying. You took offense. But my comments stand.

I took no offense, just pointed out that violations don't necessarily mean anything as a way to rank safe, versus not safe, companies. I have no objection to your comments even, only the lack of understanding they reveal of the industry, how it is regulated, what thing can, or cannot, be prevented.

I also called out BP on their safety record. This is well documented and involves far more than a few signs being knocked over or weather. In 3 years BP had 760 serious safety violations.

Do you even know the difference between a violation for a sign being knocked over, versus "serious"? Do you even know the difference between a "violation", and WHY a blowout burns down a rig? Which might have NOTHING to do with ANY violation?

By way of comparison, Exxon had 3. You are correct in your assumption that I have not worked in the oil & gas industry. But I have years of experience as a safety professional in the utility construction industry. And 760 serious violations in 3 years is a pitiful record.

You don't even know what "serious" means, how can you say it is a pitiful record? Without knowing the difference between an inoperative BOP or lacking the correct number of cementing stabilizers you can't even know the difference between the equivalent of a knocked over sign, versus something "serious".

So good for you, you can compare hundreds of something to 3....but if those 3 were truly oil field serious, and the other "serious" were all signs knocked over, the answer is you still don't know...and none of this has to do with loss of well control on the Deepwater Horizon.

It is like the Titanic is closing in at full speed on the iceberg, and instead of worrying about the number of lifeboats, you are counting serious violations in the galley where the cook doesn't add the exact correct amount of salt to the mashed potatoes.

Also, the issues noted by the engineers was not a minor one. The safety valve that blew (causing the incident) had not been serviced in at least 10 years, despite the recommendation that they be fully inspected every 3 to 5 years. That is willful negligence.

A safety valve ( which did not "blow", and I actually think you are referring to the BOPs, which no one calls a "safety valve" except some dumbass journalist) not functioning, or improperly plumbed, or not inspected enough, did not CAUSE the problems that burned down the DeepWater Horizon.

 

[WinterBorn]

Indeed I am still using their products.

Using them indeed. As are those protesting and locking themselves to pipelines, firing up websites that misrepresent oilfield practice for their own ends, trying to get everyone else to buy into their fear meme....but as I mentioned in the OP, how many of them would even TRY to stop their habit, let alone succeed, for those with even a smidgen of the courage of their convictions.

Because I have no choice but to do so.

of COURSE you have a choice....you just don't LIKE the choice.

True. And your elected representatives, through their regulatory authority, are responsible for giving you EXACTLY that. Have you ever worked for an oil company? I can assure you that safety is taken beyond extreme when compared to REAL things that can kill you, like big rig truck drivers, or your neighbors behind the wheel of their family auto.

It is far more likely that you will be directly impacted by your idiot neighbors or a lightning strike than something jumping up and biting you from an oil company. Yet here you are, worried about THEM, instead of shivering in fear when you get into your auto and motoring down the street. Funny how that works, isn't it?



Oh, I agree that EVERYONE has the right to complain. And vote, if the actions of their elected representatives annoys them. My fascination is with those who complain without even an inkling of understanding as to the position from which they complain. A position only made POSSIBLE because of the thing they are complaining about. The irony is pretty severe.



I took no offense, just pointed out that violations don't necessarily mean anything as a way to rank safe, versus not safe, companies. I have no objection to your comments even, only the lack of understanding they reveal of the industry, how it is regulated, what thing can, or cannot, be prevented.



Do you even know the difference between a violation for a sign being knocked over, versus "serious"? Do you even know the difference between a "violation", and WHY a blowout burns down a rig? Which might have NOTHING to do with ANY violation?

By way of comparison, Exxon had 3. You are correct in your assumption that I have not worked in the oil & gas industry. But I have years of experience as a safety professional in the utility construction industry. And 760 serious violations in 3 years is a pitiful record.

You don't even know what "serious" means, how can you say it is a pitiful record? Without knowing the difference between an inoperative BOP or lacking the correct number of cementing stabilizers you can't even know the difference between the equivalent of a knocked over sign, versus something "serious".

So good for you, you can compare hundreds of something to 3....but if those 3 were truly oil field serious, and the other "serious" were all signs knocked over, the answer is you still don't know...and none of this has to do with loss of well control on the Deepwater Horizon.

It is like the Titanic is closing in at full speed on the iceberg, and instead of worrying about the number of lifeboats, you are counting serious violations in the galley where the cook doesn't add the exact correct amount of salt to the mashed potatoes.

Also, the issues noted by the engineers was not a minor one. The safety valve that blew (causing the incident) had not been serviced in at least 10 years, despite the recommendation that they be fully inspected every 3 to 5 years. That is willful negligence.

A safety valve ( which did not "blow", and I actually think you are referring to the BOPs, which no one calls a "safety valve" except some dumbass journalist) not functioning, or improperly plumbed, or not inspected enough, did not CAUSE the problems that burned down the DeepWater Horizon.

I am well aware of what a "serious" safety violation is and what it is not. Unless the sign was warning of some unseen and imminent hazard, it being blown over would not be a serious safety violation.

 

[RGR]

I am well aware of what a "serious" safety violation is and what it is not. Unless the sign was warning of some unseen and imminent hazard, it being blown over would not be a serious safety violation.

Wrong. The penalties for that sign being knocked over are the same as if I didn't put in enough cement to properly plug off an H2S bearing formation during well abandonment operations.

Would you like an education in "serious" between these two, equally "serious" violations? One will kill you, the other will not. Both are equally "serious" in the eyes of the rules and regs…or not.

Like I said…you might know safety, but you know nothing about the vulgarities and confusion of the rues or regs themselves, let alone those with an advocacy position who WANT all those signs to be "serious" violations. Sort of like you are trying right now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That there are benefits has never been the question.

You wouldn't know it from the haters though would you? Fracking ruined my sex life! Fracking caused me to age! Fracking caused the Atlantic to be populated and Fukishima to happen!

While a bit over the top I realize, I'm am racking my brain to try and recall a single anti who ever said.."well sure...so I got cheap natural gas to heat my house, and I got a raise at work because the economy is doing better.....and I sure think it is good that we are producing american fuels for american consumers....oh yeah, and that fracking thiing that made all this possible sure sucks!".

Do the hazards and potential for serious environmental harm outweigh those benefits is the question. And if you rely on the oil companies for information, you are either naive or a fool.

So who do I rely on? The Sierra Club? Greenpeace? Those same antis who don't even understand why hydraulic fracking DOESN'T pollute freshwater aquifers?

If yu have to choose between The Sierra Club and BP? Choose The Sierra club.

First they have a much better record of telling the truth. Second, if there is an error, it will come out with further research and you will have only caused a delay. If there is an error the other way, you cannot undo the damage.


It is funny that you seem absolutely sure that fracking does not ever pollute freshwater aquifers. Because there is no way to guarantee how the rock will crack or how the fluids put down will flow. Also, you do not even know for sure what is pumped into those holes, since the companies are not required to report it.

BP said they took care of the safety issues on the Deepwater Horizon too. Remember how that worked out? I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

I don't recall any environmental groupd being responsible for that many deaths or that much damage.

Rachel Carson was responsible for the deaths of millions.