Who does or does not support Israel?

[Kalam]

Yes I am, Wait.. So Israel kicks those Arab countries asses and you resort to Insurgency?

You ask that as if insurgency is some sort of fallback plan or alternative option. No, insurgency is preferable. Involving other countries in the conflict would make it unnecessarily politicized.

Are you Arabs that cowardly?

I'm not an Arab, nor do I see how engaging in an armed conflict against Israel is "cowardly."

You have declare jihad on people?

On those who slaughter innocents? As a religious obligation, yes. As long as there are oppressors and aggressors, there will be jihad bi'l-sayf.

But you can't fight a conventional warfare because you guys have been destroyed twice..

I don't favor a conventional war because I don't support any nation in the Middle East. They're all ruled by regimes that are, for the most part, extremely corrupt. Moreover, no Middle Eastern nation has the courage to stand up to Israel in open warfare. Palestine and its helpers will be fine without unnecessary foreign intervention.

Quite sad.. Jihad against Innocent people..

Don't be a fool. I never said anything about killing "innocent people." If I supported killing innocents, I'd hardly be better than Israel. No, I support targeting the Israeli military and government only.

and then they say Islam is the Religion of Peace...

Can there really be peace while oppression runs rampant?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/israe...l-and-us-worst-in-35-years-2.html#post2100203

The fact that a nation called "Palestine" didn't exist does absolutely nothing to change the fact that Israel was created at the expense of the Muslim and Christian population that had already been living in the region.

Then you're an Anti Semite.

Do you think I care when people call me that?

Apparently, opposing Jewish supremacy in favor of equality is "anti-Semitism."

You don't care about Israel, you forget the fact that there was no Palestine when Israel was there. And yet you claim it's stolen land..

What does the existence of a separate nation have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that were forced out of their homes when the Zionists were seeking lebensraum? What does it have to do with Israel's continued policy of aggression towards the civilian population of Gaza and their treatment of Palestinians as subhumans in general? Absolutely nothing.

Hows your buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing?

I'm not friends with heretics.

You guys still don't believe in the holocaust either?

The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.

 

[Tom Clancy]

Yes I am, Wait.. So Israel kicks those Arab countries asses and you resort to Insurgency?

You ask that as if insurgency is some sort of fallback plan or alternative option. No, insurgency is preferable. Involving other countries in the conflict would make it unnecessarily politicized.

It is. Reminds me of all the Insurgents in Iraq and Afghan who can't fight the The US Military without hiding and using cowardly tactics.

Are you Arabs that cowardly?

I'm not an Arab, nor do I see how engaging in an armed conflict against Israel is "cowardly."

[/quote]

It's cowardly to use Insurgency instead of a Conventional Warfare.

On those who slaughter innocents? As a religious obligation, yes. As long as there are oppressors and aggressors, there will be jihad bi'l-sayf.

The Reason Israel has killed Civilians is because Hamas and any other Opposing force in Palestine use Schools and Hospitals as cover.. don't get me started with the Kidnapping or children and using them as shields..

I don't favor a conventional war because I don't support any nation in the Middle East. They're all ruled by regimes that are, for the most part, extremely corrupt. Moreover, no Middle Eastern nation has the courage to stand up to Israel in open warfare. Palestine and its helpers will be fine without unnecessary foreign intervention.

It's true, because they know Israel is a Superior Force in the Middle East, capable of taking out 4 countries at once in 7 days.

So, you use Insurgency...

Don't be a fool. I never said anything about killing "innocent people." If I supported killing innocents, I'd hardly be better than Israel. No, I support targeting the Israeli military and government only.

You don't? Then what about all those Innocent Jews getting killed and are sacred of leaving their homes because of Qassam rockets?

Don't even lie to yourself.. You don't want any Jewish Presence in the middle east.. you still haven't said anything about all those Jews eradicated from their homes when they were living in peace in Arab Nations..

Can there really be peace while oppression runs rampant?

Hamas and any other Muslim who hates the Jews don't want peace. They Want Israel gone.. Forever.. If Israel gave back all the land they would still throw Qassam Rockets over... This isn't about Palestine or Settlers, it's about Jewish Presence.. and you know it.

The fact that a nation called "Palestine" didn't exist does absolutely nothing to change the fact that Israel was created at the expense of the Muslim and Christian population that had already been living in the region.

Read History...

Churchill granted a Palestinian Homeland.. which is now Jordan.

Churchill also promised a Jewish Land. Which is now Israel.

In 1948 the UN divided 20% that was left of the mandate into two parts.
One for the Arabs, one for the Jews.. 60% of the New Jewish land was Desert.

Funded by the UN with Billions of the US and Israel Dollars for economic development the Arabs could have done the same.. Instead their money went to their leaders Swiss Bank accounts and for funding ethnic Hatred and Terrorism.

If the Arabs had been willing to accept an arrangement in which they were given 90% of the Original Palestine mandate there would be no middle eastern conflict.

But they didn't..

The Creation of Israel meant for the first time in 2,000 years Jews had their own state to protect them.

But 1/6 of 1% of the Middle East was too much for the Arabs..

Do you think I care when people call me that?

Apparently, opposing Jewish supremacy in favor of equality is "anti-Semitism."

Jewish supremacy? no. Jews in General.

What does the existence of a separate nation have to do with the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that were forced out of their homes when the Zionists were seeking lebensraum? What does it have to do with Israel's continued policy of aggression towards the civilian population of Gaza and their treatment of Palestinians as subhumans in general? Absolutely nothing.

Look above..

Hows your buddy Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doing?

I'm not friends with heretics.
[/quote]

Well sure sounds like you guys would get along perfectly..

You guys still don't believe in the holocaust either?

The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.[/QUOTE]

[/quote]

Never said it did.

It was a question. Simple.

 

[Marc39]

The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.

Must be hard to keep a straight face while suggesting Zionists are imperialists when Israel is a mere 8,000 square miles, smaller than the state of Vermont, and the Arab Muslim countries in the Middle East encompass 9 million square miles, twice the size of the US.

Israel is less than 0.1% of the total land mass.

Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?

 

[Tom Clancy]

The Holocaust is completely irrelevant. The death of six million Jews in Europe does not justify Zionist imperialism in Palestine.

Must be hard to keep a straight face while suggesting Zionists are imperialists when Israel is a mere 8,000 square miles, smaller than the state of Vermont, and the Arab Muslim countries in the Middle East encompass 9 million square miles, twice the size of the US.

Israel is less than 0.1% of the total land mass.

Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?

whoa! i didn't say that...

 

[Kalam]

It is. Reminds me of all the Insurgents in Iraq and Afghan who can't fight the The US Military without hiding and using cowardly tactics.

What makes conventional warfare superior to guerrilla warfare, especially when one party to a conflict is a non-state actor? Your suggestion is ridiculous.

It's cowardly to use Insurgency instead of a Conventional Warfare.

That's one of the silliest and most ignorant things I've read. Were the colonists who defeated and expelled the British in 1776 "cowards"? How about the Jews who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising?

The Reason Israel has killed Civilians is because Hamas and any other Opposing force in Palestine use Schools and Hospitals as cover.. don't get me started with the Kidnapping or children and using them as shields..

Israel kills civilians because it uses force indiscriminately. Claims of "human shields" are lies propagated by Israel and its unthinking supporters; the veracity of these allegations cannot be confirmed outside of Zionist propaganda sources. Even if we were to assume that you were correct -- which you aren't -- does the presence of a few militants in the vicinity of a hospital justify destroying that hospital and everyone inside of it?

It's true, because they know Israel is a Superior Force in the Middle East, capable of taking out 4 countries at once in 7 days.

That's not a particularly impressive feat when you've got the most powerful country in the world on a leash.

You don't? Then what about all those Innocent Jews getting killed and are sacred of leaving their homes because of Qassam rockets?

What about them? I haven't expressed support for indiscriminate rocket fire because, unlike Zionists, I oppose it regardless of its source. The death of any civilian is tragic, but let's put things into perspective. Qassam rockets killed 28 Israelis over eight years. In response, Israel killed over 700 Palestinian civilians over a period of three weeks.

Don't even lie to yourself.. You don't want any Jewish Presence in the middle east..

Don't be a presumptuous ass. I don't care who lives where as long as they don't oppress others. Your recourse to lying about my beliefs only underscores the weakness of your own arguments.

you still haven't said anything about all those Jews eradicated from their homes when they were living in peace in Arab Nations.

I wasn't asked. Of course I oppose expelling people simply because of their religious identity. I realize that consistent opposition to oppression must be a concept unfamiliar to most Zionists, but it really isn't so complicated.

Hamas and any other Muslim who hates the Jews don't want peace. They Want Israel gone.. Forever.. If Israel gave back all the land they would still throw Qassam Rockets over... This isn't about Palestine or Settlers, it's about Jewish Presence.. and you know it.

Certain individuals may harbor enmity for Jews in general, but I'm not one of them. Neither is Khalid Mish'al, the leader of Hamas:

Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.​

Read History...

Don't make me laugh.

Churchill granted a Palestinian Homeland.. which is now Jordan.

Churchill also promised a Jewish Land. Which is now Israel.

In 1948 the UN divided 20% that was left of the mandate into two parts.
One for the Arabs, one for the Jews.. 60% of the New Jewish land was Desert.

Funded by the UN with Billions of the US and Israel Dollars for economic development the Arabs could have done the same.. Instead their money went to their leaders Swiss Bank accounts and for funding ethnic Hatred and Terrorism.

If the Arabs had been willing to accept an arrangement in which they were given 90% of the Original Palestine mandate there would be no middle eastern conflict.

But they didn't..

The problem here is twofold. First of all, you are under the mistaken impression that foreign nations, like Britain, have the right to dictate the affairs of people living thousands of miles away. The people living in the region of Palestine had the exclusive right to determine for themselves what kind of government they would have. Secondly, you make it seem as if being forced to give away any portion of land to recently-arrived immigrants is acceptable, which is not true at all. If Mexicans crossed the border in huge numbers and settled in the Southwestern US, would you be okay with ceding ten percent of the territory of the US to those immigrants?

The Creation of Israel meant for the first time in 2,000 years Jews had their own state to protect them.

This occurred at the expense of the people who had already been living in what would become "Israel." That is completely unacceptable. If the Jews wanted a homeland where they could establish self-rule under Jewish law, it should have been carved out of German territory. It is ridiculous to expect the Palestinians to give up their territory because of an atrocity committed on a separate continent.

But 1/6 of 1% of the Middle East was too much for the Arabs.

Don't you understand? Establishing an oppressive government anywhere is unacceptable, regardless of the amount of territory controlled by that government.

Jewish supremacy? no. Jews in General.

I oppose the former.

Well sure sounds like you guys would get along perfectly..

I'll excuse your ignorance of divisions within Islam.

Never said it did.

That's certainly what you seem to be implying. Jewish suffering does not justify Palestinian suffering.

 

[Kalam]

Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?

No.

 

[Tom Clancy]

Kalam.. Your posts just keep showing your ignorance..

There is a difference between Revolutionary times and Modern Day age. And 2 Nations. Don't Mistake it with a Militia and Armed Civilians.

Second thing.. You still haven't said anything about all those Jews who were expelled out of Arab countries.


Lies and Propaganda?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y]YouTube - Hamas - Human Shield Confession[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J08GqXMr3YE[/ame]

 

[Marc39]

Israel kills civilians because it uses force indiscriminately.

Lie.

The IDF conducted a daily, unilateral 3-hour ceasefire during the Gaza war in order to allow for the administration of humanitarian aid to Pallies, while taking enemy fire from Hamas.

No other military has shown similar restraint.

Claims of "human shields" are lies propagated by Israel and its unthinking supporters; the veracity of these allegations cannot be confirmed outside of Zionist propaganda sources. Even if we were to assume that you were correct -- which you aren't -- does the presence of a few militants in the vicinity of a hospital justify destroying that hospital and everyone inside of it?

Lie.

Hamas establishing military bases among civilian populations is well-documented.

What about them? I haven't expressed support for indiscriminate rocket fire because, unlike Zionists, I oppose it regardless of its source. The death of any civilian is tragic, but let's put things into perspective. Qassam rockets killed 28 Israelis over eight years. In response, Israel killed over 700 Palestinian civilians over a period of three weeks.

Stupid remark.

Hamas maximized civilian casualties in fighting out of uniform and fighting from within civilian populations, both flagrant violations of the law of armed conflict. The IDF blanketed Gaza and phoned and texted Pallies warning them of the impending military reprisals.

Such tactics are otherwise unthinkable in war.

Don't be a presumptuous ass. I don't care who lives where as long as they don't oppress others. Your recourse to lying about my beliefs only underscores the weakness of your own arguments.

Arabs oppress each other. Pallies live under fascist rule.

Certain individuals may harbor enmity for Jews in general, but I'm not one of them. Neither is Khalid Mish'al, the leader of Hamas:

Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.​

Except, Hamas's charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel and genocide of Jews.

Muhammad annihilated the Jewish community in Medina, beheading 800 Jews. His final deathbed curse was that only Muslims live in Arabia.

Jews who were not massacred by Muslims were forced into livesof debasement and humiliation as dhimmis.

You know less than nothing.

The people living in the region of Palestine had the exclusive right to determine for themselves what kind of government they would have.

Wrong.

Arabs in Palestine had no "exclusive rights" as they owned no land and had no sovereignty. Palestine was under Ottoman sovereignty until the Turks transferred sovereignty over Palestine to the World War I Allies in signing the Treaty of Sevres. The San Remo Resolution transferred sovereignty to the Jews.

This occurred at the expense of the people who had already been living in what would become "Israel." That is completely unacceptable. If the Jews wanted a homeland where they could establish self-rule under Jewish law, it should have been carved out of German territory. It is ridiculous to expect the Palestinians to give up their territory because of an atrocity committed on a separate continent.

Arabs in Palestine were nomads and tenant farmers with no legal rights to land.

Your post has been demolished. Stick a fork in you, you're done.

 

[Marc39]

Now, don't you feel like a total ignorant asshole?

No.

But, you are an ignorant asshole, as I demonstrate with each of posts.

 

[Marc39]

our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.

Dummy, when can we expect you to open a history book? Your ignorance is embarrassing.

It was Muslims who invaded Europe, Asia and Africa in the 7th and 8th centuries and throughout the Middle Ages and who imposed their wretched cult of Islam on Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus and all other non-Muslims.

Today, Muslims are imposing themselves on Christians and Jews in the Middle East, persecuting all non-Muslims out of the region. 99% of the Middle East is Muslim---Prior to the unfortunate invention of Islam, 100% of the Middle East was not Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

Get your facts straight, moron.

 

[Kalam]

Kalam.. Your posts just keep showing your ignorance..

I suppose that's why this paltry post was all you were able to offer in response.

There is a difference between Revolutionary times and Modern Day age. And 2 Nations. Don't Mistake it with a Militia and Armed Civilians.

Explain this vast difference to me. Clearly, my "ignorance" has prevented me from being able to see the truth on my own.

Second thing.. You still haven't said anything about all those Jews who were expelled out of Arab countries.

I haven't?

I wasn't asked. Of course I oppose expelling people simply because of their religious identity.

Lies and Propaganda?

Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.

 

[Kalam]

Marc39 --

Enough. Exchanging puerile insults with you has lost its appeal. I'll be happy to carry on a civil discussion in which neither one of us resorts to our typical name-calling and childishness (I accept responsibility for this as well), but short of that, I don't see how continuing this argument will benefit anyone.

 

[Tom Clancy]

It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.

Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel? Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens.

Excuse me then, You did. Sometimes reading fast we all miss a couple words. My apologies.

To answer your question, Good. But that's not what the Leaders in those countries obviously thought.

Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct. If it isn't, show me otherwise.

 

[Kalam]

It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.

Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel? Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens.

Again, I oppose any operation that targets or unnecessarily endangers civilians -- military targets are permissible. A "terrorist" can be distinguished from an insurgent based on who he or she is targeting. That being said, I should make it clear that I do not support the insurgency in Afghanistan or in Iraq. The Taliban are heretical and the Iraqi insurgency is largely under the control of al-Qa'idah, whose members are flagrant violators of Islamic tenets.

Excuse me then, You did. Sometimes reading fast we all miss a couple words. My apologies.

It's fine; no big deal.

To answer your question, Good. But that's not what the Leaders in those countries obviously thought.

Apparently not. In that regard, I hardly hold them above Israel.

Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct. If it isn't, show me otherwise.

My non-fluency in Arabic makes providing a translation on my own a bit labor-intensive. I can, however, show you why I don't believe that MEMRI translations have an ounce of credibility:

Finkelstein later wrote on his Web site: "MEMRI recently posted what it alleged was an interview I did with Lebanese television on the Nazi Holocaust. The MEMRI posting was designed to prove that I was a Holocaust denier."

Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.

But MEMRI was able to create the opposite impression, as Finkelstein demonstrated on his Web site, by editing out large chunks of the actual interview.

Southern California InFocus - MEMRI is propaganda machine, expert says​

Also:
Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

[P F Tinmore]

It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.

Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel? Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens.

Again, I oppose any operation that targets or unnecessarily endangers civilians -- military targets are permissible. A "terrorist" can be distinguished from an insurgent based on who he or she is targeting. That being said, I should make it clear that I do not support the insurgency in Afghanistan or in Iraq. The Taliban are heretical and the Iraqi insurgency is largely under the control of al-Qa'idah, whose members are flagrant violators of Islamic tenets.

Excuse me then, You did. Sometimes reading fast we all miss a couple words. My apologies.

It's fine; no big deal.

To answer your question, Good. But that's not what the Leaders in those countries obviously thought.

Apparently not. In that regard, I hardly hold them above Israel.

Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct. If it isn't, show me otherwise.

My non-fluency in Arabic makes providing a translation on my own a bit labor-intensive. I can, however, show you why I don't believe that MEMRI translations have an ounce of credibility:

Finkelstein later wrote on his Web site: "MEMRI recently posted what it alleged was an interview I did with Lebanese television on the Nazi Holocaust. The MEMRI posting was designed to prove that I was a Holocaust denier."

Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.

But MEMRI was able to create the opposite impression, as Finkelstein demonstrated on his Web site, by editing out large chunks of the actual interview.

Southern California InFocus - MEMRI is propaganda machine, expert says​

Also:
Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine. They have no credibility.

 

[Marc39]

It's not so much about the Militia itself, but the Tactics Insurgents in todays age use and do. That's the difference.

Bombing Public places in Iraq and Afghan and Israel? Injuring Military Personnel (Iraq and Afghan) and Citizens.

Again, I oppose any operation that targets or unnecessarily endangers civilians -- military targets are permissible. A "terrorist" can be distinguished from an insurgent based on who he or she is targeting. That being said, I should make it clear that I do not support the insurgency in Afghanistan or in Iraq. The Taliban are heretical and the Iraqi insurgency is largely under the control of al-Qa'idah, whose members are flagrant violators of Islamic tenets.


It's fine; no big deal.


Apparently not. In that regard, I hardly hold them above Israel.

Kalam, I firmly believe the translation is at least 99% Correct. If it isn't, show me otherwise.

My non-fluency in Arabic makes providing a translation on my own a bit labor-intensive. I can, however, show you why I don't believe that MEMRI translations have an ounce of credibility:

Finkelstein later wrote on his Web site: "MEMRI recently posted what it alleged was an interview I did with Lebanese television on the Nazi Holocaust. The MEMRI posting was designed to prove that I was a Holocaust denier."

Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.

But MEMRI was able to create the opposite impression, as Finkelstein demonstrated on his Web site, by editing out large chunks of the actual interview.

Southern California InFocus - MEMRI is propaganda machine, expert says​

Also:
Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk

MEMRI is a card carrying member of Israel's BS machine. They have no credibility.

You cannot dispute one word from Memri, retard.

 

[Marc39]

Far from being a Holocaust denier, Finkelstein's own parents were Holocaust survivors, a fact he has often spoken about.

Finkelstein is a crackpot denied tenure by every university that has employed him. DePaul Univ. fired Finkelstein for mental problems.

You and Finkelstein have at least one thing in common.

 

[Marc39]

Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.

Memri's translations are highly accurate. Memri has Arabic-speaking members on its staff.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.

Memri's translations are highly accurate. Memri has Arabic-speaking members on its staff.

It is also a BS sales organization.

 

[Marc39]

Lies and propaganda. The first video was "translated" by MEMRI, an organization founded by former IDF military intelligence personnel. It's a Zionist propaganda outlet. I'd trust a MEMRI "translation" of a Hamas statement no more than I'd trust a Hamas "translation" of an IDF statement. What's happening in the second video is unclear.

Memri's translations are highly accurate. Memri has Arabic-speaking members on its staff.

It is also a BS sales organization.

You are the Forum Dunce.