Who Controls America?

[percysunshine]

People who name themselves after 'Bonanza' characters control America.

 

[Hossfly]

Even if they did he would have to make decisions based on America's dependence on Israel.

You Really need to explain America's dependence on Israel...... Give it your best shot!

It's too complicated for you and your ilk to see the strategic importance of Israel's safety and well being to the US and the West.

Not at all complicated, because there really is no strategic importance of Israel's safety to the well being to the US and the West. The US would get along quite well if there was no Israel.
However, I doubt that there would be an Israel if there was no United States. So do you want to rethink that "America's dependence on Israel" statement again?

People here aren't putting Israel before America.

Seriously, you can actually say that with a straight face? Either you are blind or you just don't see.

The two countries are a team and that's the way things are

You mean like judeo-christian? Now that is an oxymoron if there ever was one.

The only explanation I have is the fact that I am descendant of Manessah and that should be sufficient. If you don't know the implications of that then you are in need of some book learning. BTW, what tribe do you claim?

 

[Hossfly]

et al,

Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to turn.

It is a valid and important question. Just how deep and influential is the relationship between the US and Israel? This, like some many questions, has to be divorced from the emotions behind the question; and, must be objective in the evaluation of the risks, the benefits, and the regional impact the US-Israeli relationship creates.

In the United States, a pro-Israel foreign policy does not represent the triumph of a small lobby over the public will. It represents the power of public opinion to shape foreign policy in the face of concerns by foreign policy professionals.

There has been, in my lifetime, two big concepts as to why the US has this unusual relationship with Israel.

• One of them was the idea that there was a matter of fact interpretation of Prophetic Zionists (someone supporting the concept of the Jewish State) and biblical prophecy, that foretold the re-establishment of the Jewish state.
  
• The other concept is the establishment of a practical shelter for the Jews, protecting them from persecution because of their religious faith and belief.

This gives rise to the subcultural question as to creation of the "Gentile Zionists," and if there is such a thing?

In 1891, these strands of gentile Zionists came together. The Methodist lay leader William Blackstone presented a petition to President Benjamin Harrison calling on the United States to use its good offices to convene a congress of European powers so that they could induce the Ottoman Empire to turn Palestine over to the Jews. The 400 signatories were overwhelmingly non-Jewish and included the chief justice of the Supreme Court; the Speaker of the House of Representatives; the chairs of the House Ways and Means Committee and the House Foreign Affairs Committee; the future president William McKinley; the mayors of Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington; the editors or proprietors of the leading East Coast and Chicago newspapers; and an impressive array of Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Roman Catholic clergy. Business leaders who signed the petition included Cyrus McCormick, John Rockefeller, and J. P. Morgan. At a time when the American Jewish community was neither large nor powerful, and no such thing as an Israel lobby existed, the pillars of the American gentile establishment went on record supporting a U.S. diplomatic effort to create a Jewish state in the lands of the Bible.
SOURCE: Foreign Affairs Magazine, Published by the Council on Foreign Relations, July/August 2008,

The idea that the Jewish Lobby, while influential, is some sort of power that drives US Foreign Policy, is not entirely correct. Nor is it some entity that must be obeyed. These are simply wrong interpretations of what has been actually happening for more than a century. And in some cases, over that century, there has been an ever increasing cumulative effect on the development of support for the Zionists.

I am not, an unconditional Israeli supporter of the Jewish Homeland. Instead --- I ask the questions:

• What is the "national security interest" the US-Israeli Relationship serves? Is it an imperative?
  
• Does the continued support of Israel actually represent the image and ideals behind the US?
  
• What stability does Israel contribute to the region?

I don't really see Americans - ready yet - to address the hard questions; relative to Israeli support.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you FOR or AGAINST Israel? That's an easy question for you.

 

[Desperado]

The only explanation I have is the fact that I am descendant of Manessah and that should be sufficient. If you don't know the implications of that then you are in need of some book learning. BTW, what tribe do you claim?

I could give shit that you are the descendant of Manessah, that is like Paris Hilton saying "Do you know who my father is?" It means absolutely nothing to me, and it fails to answer any of the questions I have asked.
BTW
Im not tribal, I am an American.

 

[percysunshine]

Desperate people control America.

 

[Hossfly]

The only explanation I have is the fact that I am descendant of Manessah and that should be sufficient. If you don't know the implications of that then you are in need of some book learning. BTW, what tribe do you claim?

I could give shit that you are the descendant of Manessah, that is like Paris Hilton saying "Do you know who my father is?" It means absolutely nothing to me, and it fails to answer any of the questions I have asked.
BTW
Im not tribal, I am an American.

Then you absolutely have no need to know. If you knew you wouldn't have to pursue the issue. Now, raus.

 

[Hossfly]

The only explanation I have is the fact that I am descendant of Manessah and that should be sufficient. If you don't know the implications of that then you are in need of some book learning. BTW, what tribe do you claim?

I could give shit that you are the descendant of Manessah, that is like Paris Hilton saying "Do you know who my father is?" It means absolutely nothing to me, and it fails to answer any of the questions I have asked.
BTW
Im not tribal, I am an American.

I would imagine that all the members of the different Nations and various tribes would say that they are Americans. Tell the remaining Code Talkers of the Navajo Nation that they are not Americans. They would laugh in your face.

 

[Desperado]

I would imagine that all the members of the different Nations and various tribes would say that they are Americans..

I would imagine so... but as I said I don't have an Allegiance to any tribes

Tell the remaining Code Talkers of the Navajo Nation that they are not Americans. They would laugh in your face.

You need to take a reading comprehension course I see. Where did I say that they were not Americans?

 

[Desperado]

Then you absolutely have no need to know. If you knew you wouldn't have to pursue the issue. Now, raus.

So easy for you to fail to answer a simple question.......
Your argument would fail miserably in a court of law.

One more time: You stated America has a dependence on Israel.
Explain just how that is possible?
Answer this one simple question or piss off.
Does the US need Israel more than Israel needs the United States?

 

[Hossfly]

Then you absolutely have no need to know. If you knew you wouldn't have to pursue the issue. Now, raus.

So easy for you to fail to answer a simple question.......
Your argument would fail miserably in a court of law.

One more time: You stated America has a dependence on Israel.
Explain just how that is possible?
Answer this one simple question or piss off.
Does the US need Israel more than Israel needs the United States?

No, of course not. They nave a mutual need. About equal, I'd say.

 

[Hossfly]

Then you absolutely have no need to know. If you knew you wouldn't have to pursue the issue. Now, raus.

So easy for you to fail to answer a simple question.......
Your argument would fail miserably in a court of law.

One more time: You stated America has a dependence on Israel.
Explain just how that is possible?
Answer this one simple question or piss off.
Does the US need Israel more than Israel needs the United States?

No, of course not. They nave a mutual need. About equal, I'd say.

You can answer one simple question for me. How are you absolutely certain that Israel doesn't help the U.S. when it comes to Intelligence? I know that you do not sit in on Intelligence meetings, so tell us how you are sure that Israel is useless to the U.S.?

 

[Desperado]

You can answer one simple question for me. How are you absolutely certain that Israel doesn't help the U.S. when it comes to Intelligence? I know that you do not sit in on Intelligence meetings, so tell us how you are sure that Israel is useless to the U.S.?

Easy.....
Israel is going to do what it best for Israel. As one would expect.
Now any intel we get from Israel will be in Israel's best interest and Israel will play that information so that the US acts in Israel's interest, not necessarily in America's best interest. We just have to realize that when we deal with Israeli intel.

 

[Hossfly]

You can answer one simple question for me. How are you absolutely certain that Israel doesn't help the U.S. when it comes to Intelligence? I know that you do not sit in on Intelligence meetings, so tell us how you are sure that Israel is useless to the U.S.?

Easy.....
Israel is going to do what it best for Israel. As one would expect.
Now any intel we get from Israel will be in Israel's best interest and Israel will play that information so that the US acts in Israel's interest, not necessarily in America's best interest. We just have to realize that when we deal with Israeli intel.

Jaysus! Yes, we know that you have a high-level position in the State Department and know just what is happening. Meanwhile, how do you know that there are not American Intelligence officers working in Israel who have a counterpart in Israeli Intelligence so that they are able to keep us abreast of what is going on?

 

[October]

et al,

Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to turn.

It is a valid and important question. Just how deep and influential is the relationship between the US and Israel? This, like some many questions, has to be divorced from the emotions behind the question; and, must be objective in the evaluation of the risks, the benefits, and the regional impact the US-Israeli relationship creates.

In the United States, a pro-Israel foreign policy does not represent the triumph of a small lobby over the public will. It represents the power of public opinion to shape foreign policy in the face of concerns by foreign policy professionals.

There has been, in my lifetime, two big concepts as to why the US has this unusual relationship with Israel.

• One of them was the idea that there was a matter of fact interpretation of Prophetic Zionists (someone supporting the concept of the Jewish State) and biblical prophecy, that foretold the re-establishment of the Jewish state.
  
• The other concept is the establishment of a practical shelter for the Jews, protecting them from persecution because of their religious faith and belief.

This gives rise to the subcultural question as to creation of the "Gentile Zionists," and if there is such a thing?

In 1891, these strands of gentile Zionists came together. The Methodist lay leader William Blackstone presented a petition to President Benjamin Harrison calling on the United States to use its good offices to convene a congress of European powers so that they could induce the Ottoman Empire to turn Palestine over to the Jews. The 400 signatories were overwhelmingly non-Jewish and included the chief justice of the Supreme Court; the Speaker of the House of Representatives; the chairs of the House Ways and Means Committee and the House Foreign Affairs Committee; the future president William McKinley; the mayors of Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington; the editors or proprietors of the leading East Coast and Chicago newspapers; and an impressive array of Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Roman Catholic clergy. Business leaders who signed the petition included Cyrus McCormick, John Rockefeller, and J. P. Morgan. At a time when the American Jewish community was neither large nor powerful, and no such thing as an Israel lobby existed, the pillars of the American gentile establishment went on record supporting a U.S. diplomatic effort to create a Jewish state in the lands of the Bible.
SOURCE: Foreign Affairs Magazine, Published by the Council on Foreign Relations, July/August 2008,

The idea that the Jewish Lobby, while influential, is some sort of power that drives US Foreign Policy, is not entirely correct. Nor is it some entity that must be obeyed. These are simply wrong interpretations of what has been actually happening for more than a century. And in some cases, over that century, there has been an ever increasing cumulative effect on the development of support for the Zionists.

I am not, an unconditional Israeli supporter of the Jewish Homeland. Instead --- I ask the questions:

• What is the "national security interest" the US-Israeli Relationship serves? Is it an imperative?
  
• Does the continued support of Israel actually represent the image and ideals behind the US?
  
• What stability does Israel contribute to the region?

I don't really see Americans - ready yet - to address the hard questions; relative to Israeli support.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you FOR or AGAINST Israel? That's an easy question for you.

Why must it be only for or against Israel? WTF is that all about?

Here's a novel idea to consider,

treat EVERY ONE the SAME!

It seems when ever any one suggests treating Israel the same, as in equal as in fairly, as in like every one else, they are accused of being anti-Israel because they consider Israel no different then any other nation. Our lives should not revolve around Israel! They are just one other nation on this planet!

 

[Hossfly]

et al,

Well, it certainly didn't take long for this thread to turn.

It is a valid and important question. Just how deep and influential is the relationship between the US and Israel? This, like some many questions, has to be divorced from the emotions behind the question; and, must be objective in the evaluation of the risks, the benefits, and the regional impact the US-Israeli relationship creates.



There has been, in my lifetime, two big concepts as to why the US has this unusual relationship with Israel.

• One of them was the idea that there was a matter of fact interpretation of Prophetic Zionists (someone supporting the concept of the Jewish State) and biblical prophecy, that foretold the re-establishment of the Jewish state.
  
• The other concept is the establishment of a practical shelter for the Jews, protecting them from persecution because of their religious faith and belief.

This gives rise to the subcultural question as to creation of the "Gentile Zionists," and if there is such a thing?



The idea that the Jewish Lobby, while influential, is some sort of power that drives US Foreign Policy, is not entirely correct. Nor is it some entity that must be obeyed. These are simply wrong interpretations of what has been actually happening for more than a century. And in some cases, over that century, there has been an ever increasing cumulative effect on the development of support for the Zionists.

I am not, an unconditional Israeli supporter of the Jewish Homeland. Instead --- I ask the questions:

• What is the "national security interest" the US-Israeli Relationship serves? Is it an imperative?
  
• Does the continued support of Israel actually represent the image and ideals behind the US?
  
• What stability does Israel contribute to the region?

I don't really see Americans - ready yet - to address the hard questions; relative to Israeli support.

Most Respectfully,
R

Are you FOR or AGAINST Israel? That's an easy question for you.

Why must it be only for or against Israel? WTF is that all about?

Here's a novel idea to consider,

treat EVERY ONE the SAME!

It seems when ever any one suggests treating Israel the same, as in equal as in fairly, as in like every one else, they are accused of being anti-Israel because they consider Israel no different then any other nation. Our lives should not revolve around Israel! They are just one other nation on this planet!

Yowsuh, boss.

 

[pbel]

Are you FOR or AGAINST Israel? That's an easy question for you.

Why must it be only for or against Israel? WTF is that all about?

Here's a novel idea to consider,

treat EVERY ONE the SAME!

It seems when ever any one suggests treating Israel the same, as in equal as in fairly, as in like every one else, they are accused of being anti-Israel because they consider Israel no different then any other nation. Our lives should not revolve around Israel! They are just one other nation on this planet!

Yowsuh, boss.

Hoss think for your-self...don't become a Zionist Lackey.

 

[Hossfly]

Why must it be only for or against Israel? WTF is that all about?

Here's a novel idea to consider,

treat EVERY ONE the SAME!

It seems when ever any one suggests treating Israel the same, as in equal as in fairly, as in like every one else, they are accused of being anti-Israel because they consider Israel no different then any other nation. Our lives should not revolve around Israel! They are just one other nation on this planet!

Yowsuh, boss.

Hoss think for your-self...don't become a Zionist Lackey.

Too late. They already got me. Save yourself. Run for your life or they'll get you too.

 

[PixieStix]

Who controls America?

Apparently, it is the main stream media. They lie and give half truth and even so so far as to keep the truth from us even when they have it to show.

 

[Desperado]

Jaysus! Yes, we know that you have a high-level position in the State Department and know just what is happening.

Wrong again, I can't work for the State Department, I actually have ammunition in my weapons.

 

[Hossfly]

Jaysus! Yes, we know that you have a high-level position in the State Department and know just what is happening.

Wrong again, I can't work for the State Department, I actually have ammunition in my weapons.

Well, then you're one of the good guys.