Who cares what you believe!

[AllieBaba]

But doesn't the Bible say you mustn't spill your seed?

Yes it does. It also says not to "defraud" your wife or husband, meaning to provide sex.

What that has to do with sperm being considered a human, I'm not sure.

 

[Tristan]

Could you provide a link to that? I've searched a few times and discovered that there is no agreement among scientists that life begins at conception, so I'd be interested in seeing where you get your information from.

I was speaking from general knowledge from High School Health class and got the evolution connection from (I think) the book The Demon-Haunted World by the late Carl Sagan. I guess you could google human conception and/or sexuality maybe??

I think the problem is the different definitions of life. An embryo is alive in a sense, just like a sperm is alive or an egg is alive or one of your skin cells is alive. But that does not equate with “life.” It just means they are living cells.

There is no "alive in a sense" there is only life and inanimate objects. Maybe that is where we are not getting eachother? Science does have, and I think there is great agreement on this, a good understanding of the difference between alive and dead/inanimate.

Therefore we have to go further and define life either logically or by belief. Logically, all these things, i.e. the embryo, the sperm, the egg—have a potential for life but none of them are alive in the sense we are discussing. They only become alive when they are born.

I don't care about belief, we are all welcome to our own. We are not welcome to our own logic and the bolded above just does not fly. Sperm qua sperm has no potential for personhood. The egg qua egg has no potential for personhood. The embryo qua embryo is the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism of the same species.

Theologically anyone is of course welcome to believe whatever they wish. But basing the definition on what is unproven itself (a religious definition) is illogical.

I agree with you about religious rights but I don't see "life" as a particularly religious definition.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's ok, you can still worship at the alter. LOL. JK.

I heard yesterday a good point. When the baby can live independent fromm the body, that's when it should have human rights. So if you decided at 7 months that you didn't want to have the baby, it is too late because the baby could technically live on it's own, or in an incubator, or whatever.

But if it is 5 months in, the fetus/baby could not live outside the mothers body, so it should be her choice at that point.

So I don't know where the cut off point is, but this sounds fair.

And if the baby is severly retarded, the mother should be able to abort even at the last minute. IMO.

And I'm sure you're okay with killing babies after they're born...if they're severely retarded, no doubt.

So much for equality.

 

[Shogun]

I really hate it when you try to impress me with Karma Sutra.

dont lie.. you know you are moist like a duncan heinz cake right now.

 

[Ravi]

I was speaking from general knowledge from High School Health class and got the evolution connection from (I think) the book The Demon-Haunted World by the late Carl Sagan. I guess you could google human conception and/or sexuality maybe??

I did. There is no scientific agreement on when life begins.

There is no "alive in a sense" there is only life and inanimate objects. Maybe that is where we are not getting eachother? Science does have, and I think there is great agreement on this, a good understanding of the difference between alive and dead/inanimate.

Sure, there is the difference between being alive like a plant and being a sentient being.

I don't care about belief, we are all welcome to our own. We are not welcome to our own logic and the bolded above just does not fly. Sperm qua sperm has no potential for personhood. The egg qua egg has no potential for personhood. The embryo qua embryo is the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism of the same species.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can grow a human from a single cell these days. And yes, we are welcome to use logic and not the bible to decide our choices.

I agree with you about religious rights but I don't see "life" as a particularly religious definition.

No, it was certainly something I was taught in Sunday school, about souls and unborn babies, etc.

 

[Abelian Sea]

And I'm sure you're okay with killing babies after they're born....

He has said as much:

Now if your baby is going to be severly retarded in the last trimester, I say you can get a late term abortion. I'd even be ok if a woman wanted to euthenize the baby after it was born.

 

[Tristan]

Sure, there is the difference between being alive like a plant and being a sentient being.

I think we are having a heated agreement here, lol.

The question "When does life begin?" is answered "At conception.". The question "When is a human embryo sentient?" is something else.

 

[Ravi]

I think we are having a heated agreement here, lol.

The question "When does life begin?" is answered "At conception.". The question "When is a human embryo sentient?" is something else.

Okay, my definition of life seems to be different from yours.

 

[dilloduck]

I think we are having a heated agreement here, lol.

The question "When does life begin?" is answered "At conception.". The question "When is a human embryo sentient?" is something else.

I remember my entire in utero experience--I'm still claustrophobic to this day.

 

[AllieBaba]

Okay, my definition of life seems to be different from yours.

But that doesn't mean you aren't wrong, dear.

 

[Ravi]

But that doesn't mean you aren't wrong, dear.

No, of course not. But it also doesn't mean I'm am.

 

[AllieBaba]

No, you're wrong because you just are.

 

[Anguille]

No, you're wrong because you just are.

Hey, girls, you know what a cat fight does for mani.

 

[dilloduck]

Hey, girls, you know what a cat fight does for mani.

You mean Mani doesn't own you all ?

 

[Tristan]

Okay, my definition of life seems to be different from yours.

Life-
life - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

 

[Anguille]

dont lie.. you know you are moist like a duncan heinz cake right now.

tff! Shogun, your clever quips more than compensate for your under endowment.

 

[Anguille]

You mean Mani doesn't own you all ?

Wow he must have paid you well to say that. What did he do? Give you Mrs. Robinson's phone number?

 

[dilloduck]

Wow he must have paid you well to say that. What did he do? Give you Mrs. Robinson's phone number?

that and some rep points !!!!!

 

[Ravi]

Life-
life - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

15: living beings

That's mine.

 

[Shogun]

tff! Shogun, your Sharp Tongue more than compensates for your girth like Herculese' Fore Arm.

there.. I fixed it for you.