Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Sixties Fan]

Generalities. Could you be mire specific?

Could you be more revolting in ignoring anything that does not give your violent heroes the right to kill Jews, or exploit their own children to kill Jews?

 

[Sixties Fan]

In a recent piece for The Guardian, opinion columnist Owen Jones expresses his ire about a speech given by the UK Labour Party leader, Keir Starmer, to the Labour Friends of Israel.

In his op-ed, “Denied a state, Palestinians are now denied a say in their own future,” Jones manages to sidestep most of the salient facts surrounding the issue of Palestinian statehood, in an effort to hammer home his simplistic central message: Palestinians are victims, and Israel and its supporters are responsible.

Jones’ disregard for the truth is evident in his headline, which misleadingly implies that Israel is somehow responsible for Palestinians being “denied a state.”

Yet, he neglects to mention why such statehood has not yet been actualized — because the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected all comprehensive peace proposals.

For example, at the Camp David Summit in 2000, then-US president Bill Clinton, with the backing of then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, offered Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat a deal that would have seen 92 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip put under Palestinian control, with a plan to award territorial compensation for the remaining eight percent.

In addition, eastern Jerusalem would have been designated the new state’s capital.

Unfortunately for millions of Palestinians, Arafat rejected the proposal and, instead, unleashed the Second Intifada, a campaign of suicide attacks that killed more than 1,000 Israelis, and injured thousands more.
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That Jones can blithely ignore the role the Palestinian leadership has in keeping its citizens in a state of chronic poverty is astonishing.

Gaza’s terrorist rulers — Hamas — currently hold interests in dozens of international companies, with an estimated value reportedly exceeding $500 million (not that any of this money is spent on much-needed infrastructure in the Strip).

Hamas is also well-funded by Iran, which has supplied the group with all kinds of state-of-the-art military equipment, including rockets and drones, that are then used to wage war against the Jewish state.

Jones notes the disparity in the loss of life in the conflict, yet ignores why this is the case: while Israel has an Iron Dome defense missile system that protects its citizens from indiscriminate rocket fire, Hamas uses its people as human shields by hiding its weapons arsenals in tunnels beneath schools and hospitals — a fact that even the United Nations, a frequent critic of Israel, has attested to.

By skirting facts and ignoring inconvenient truths, any point Jones thinks he is making is completely lost in this muddled op-ed.

(full article online)

Who’s Really Stopping a Palestinian State? Let’s Look at the Facts

Palestinian children look on as Islamic Jihad militants stand guard following Israel-Hamas truce, in Gaza May 21, 2021. REUTERS/Ibraheem Abu …

www.algemeiner.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

Could you be more revolting in ignoring anything that does not give your violent heroes the right to kill Jews, or exploit their own children to kill Jews?

Israel can stop its war whenever it wants.

 

[Hollie]

Generalities. Could you be mire specific?

Sidestepping. Could you be more predictable?

 

[Hollie]

Gazans Seeking Permits To Work In Israel: People Here 'Are Eating Shit'; Economic Circumstances Are Tough; We Are Going To Work, Not To Join The IDF Or CIA; Gaza Is Linked To Israel, Not Jordan Or Egypt

On November 24, 2021, Al-Quds Al-Youm (Palestinian Islamic Jihad – Gaza) aired a report about Gazans who hope to receive...

www.memri.org

​

Gazans Seeking Permits To Work In Israel: People Here 'Are Eating Shit'; Economic Circumstances Are Tough; We Are Going To Work, Not To Join The IDF Or CIA; Gaza Is Linked To Israel, Not Jordan Or Egypt.​

What a whiner. Doesn’t he realize those at the top of the Hamas and Fatah Islamic terrorist franchises have a certain lifestyle to maintain? Does he think that fuel and maintenance costs for a presidential jet just grows on the kuffar tree?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yet, he neglects to mention why such statehood has not yet been actualized — because the Palestinian leadership has repeatedly rejected all comprehensive peace proposals.

There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.

Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​

 

[Hollie]

There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.

Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​

There obviously have been peace offers made by Israel as exampled by return of lands to Arab attackers and treaties signed with Arab nations. On the other hand, faced with the Hamas Charter and the islamic terrorist incitement and attacks from the various islamic terrorist franchises in Gaza and the West Bank, there is a defend yourself or die requirement for the Israelis.

Indeed.

 

[Hollie]

​

Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousuf Makharzah: The UAE, 'Godfather Of Shame', Mediated Water For Electricity Deal Between Jordan And The "Jewish Entity" In Order To Make People Accept That "Monstrous Entity"

In a Friday sermon aired on Hizb ut-Tahrir's Al-Waqiyah TV (Lebanon) on November 26, 2021, Palestinian Islamic scholar Y...

www.memri.org

​

Palestinian Islamic Scholar Yousuf Makharzah: The UAE, 'Godfather Of Shame', Mediated Water For Electricity Deal Between Jordan And The "Jewish Entity" In Order To Make People Accept That "Monstrous Entity"​

It's one of those quaint islamo-colloquialisms when 'scholar' is attached to an Islamic loon who thinks it's 731 as opposed to 2021.

Who needs indoor plumbing and those new fangled things like electricity when ya' got the Koran and a heapin' helpin' of the gee-had.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Propaganda Tool
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Not that these have not been mentioned before...

Generalities. Could you be mire specific?

(LIST of REFERENCES)

In General → to the → Specific in terms of international policy: ARTICLE 19 Policy

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◈ The Joint Declaration on Freedom of Expression and "Fake News", Disinformation and Propaganda Adopted, in Vienna, on 3 March 2017,

​

Restrictions on freedom of expression may also be imposed, as long as they are consistent with the requirements noted in paragraph 1(a), to prohibit advocacy of hatred on protected grounds that constitutes incitement to violence, discrimination, or hostility (in accordance with Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights)​

◈ Article 4 and Article 5, Convention on the Rights of the Child

◈ The list of prohibited grounds on incitement should be non-exhaustive and should cover grounds not mentioned in Article 20(2) of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (CCPR);

◈ States should explicitly recognize in domestic legislation the prohibition of all advocacy that constitutes incitement to discrimination, hostility, or violence as provided by Article 20(2) of the CCPR;

◈ Incitement prohibited by Article 20(2) of the CCPR and Article 4(a) of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (CERD) should require the intent of the speaker to incite others to discrimination, hostility, or violence.

◈ Article 68 • Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949. PENAL LEGISLATION. V. PENALTIES. DEATH PENALTY
Covering the prosecution of protected persons who commit offenses that are solely intended to harm the Occupying Power.

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Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

There have never been any "peace" proposals. They have all been surrender and give up land proposals.

Israel, Palestine and the myth of the 'generous peace offers'​

"From the end of 2006 until the end of 2008, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert held 36 negotiating sessions with Palestinian authority president Mahmoud Abbas in an effort to reach a peace agreement. Additional talks were being held at the same time between Israel’s Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and Palestinian negotiator Ahmed Qurei."

Olmert presented a comprehensive plan for peace on September 16, 2008. The main elements of Olmert’s proposal were the following:

• Israel would cede almost 94% of the West Bank for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
• Israel would retain approximately 6.4% of the West Bank. “All the lands that before 1967 were buffer zones between the two populations would have been split in half. In return there would be a swap of land (to the Palestinians) from Israel as it existed before 1967.” According to Condoleezza Rice, “Olmert gave Abbas cause to believe that he was willing to reduce that number to 5.8 percent.”
• Sparsely populated settlements would be evacuated, but Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim and Ariel would be annexed by Israel. In exchange, Israel offered to give up area around Afula-Tirat Tzvi, the Lachish region, an area near Har Adar, and areas in the Judean desert and around Gaza equaling 5.8% of Israeli territory.
• Maintain the contiguity of the Palestinian state and create a safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza. “It would have been a tunnel fully controlled by the Palestinians but not under Palestinian sovereignty, otherwise it would have cut the state of Israel in two.”
• Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem would be under Jewish sovereignty, Arab neighborhoods would be under Palestinian sovereignty, so it could be the capital of a Palestinian state.
• No one would have sovereignty in the holy basin in Jerusalem containing sites holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians, including the Mount of Olives, the City of David and part of the Arab neighborhood of Silwan. This area “would be jointly administered by five nations, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Palestinian state, Israel and the United States.”
• No “right of return” for Palestinian refugees. Israel would agree on a humanitarian basis to accept 1,000 refugees every year for five years “on the basis that this would be the end of conflict and the end of claims.” An effort would also be made to establish an international fund to “compensate Palestinians for their suffering.” The agreement would also include recognition of the suffering of Jews from Arab countries who were forced out of their homes after 1948.
• Palestine would have a strong police force, “everything needed for law enforcement.” It would have no army or air force.
• The Palestinian border with Jordan would be patrolled by international forces – possibly from NATO. The Palestinians would not allow any foreign army to enter Palestine, and its government would not be permitted to enter into any military agreement with a country that does not recognize Israel.
• Israel would retain the right to defend itself beyond the borders of a Palestinian state and to pursue terrorists across the border.
• Israel would be allowed access to airspace over Palestine, and the Israel Defense Forces would have rights to the disproportionate use of the telecommunications spectrum.

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Thanks to AICE:
Sources:
Ehud Olmert, “Stop Focusing on the Settlements to Achieve Peace in the Middle East,” Washington Post, (July 17, 2009);
Greg Sheridan, “Ehud Olmert still dreams of peace,” The Australian, (November 28, 2009);
Bernard Avishai, “A Plan for Peace That Still Could Be,” New York Times Magazine, (February 7, 2011);
Condoleezza Rice, “Condoleezza Rice Memoir: Peace-Process Anguish,” Newsweek, (October 23, 2011);
Avi Isacharoff, “Revealed: Olmert's 2008 peace offer to Palestinians,” Jerusalem Post, (May 24, 2013);
“Abbas says he rejected Olmert peace offer in 2008 over unseen map,” i24NEWS, (November 19, 2015);
Benny Begin, “Why Abbas Rejects Trump's Deal (And Any Other Deal With Israel),” Haaretz, (March 6, 2020).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Olmert presented a comprehensive plan for peace on September 16, 2008. The main elements of Olmert’s proposal were the following:

• Israel would cede almost 94% of the West Bank for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
• Israel would retain approximately 6.4% of the West Bank. “All the lands that before 1967 were buffer zones between the two populations would have been split in half. In return there would be a swap of land (to the Palestinians) from Israel as it existed before 1967.” According to Condoleezza Rice, “Olmert gave Abbas cause to believe that he was willing to reduce that number to 5.8 percent.”
• Sparsely populated settlements would be evacuated, but Gush Etzion, Ma’ale Adumim and Ariel would be annexed by Israel. In exchange, Israel offered to give up area around Afula-Tirat Tzvi, the Lachish region, an area near Har Adar, and areas in the Judean desert and around Gaza equaling 5.8% of Israeli territory.
• Maintain the contiguity of the Palestinian state and create a safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza. “It would have been a tunnel fully controlled by the Palestinians but not under Palestinian sovereignty, otherwise it would have cut the state of Israel in two.”
• Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem would be under Jewish sovereignty, Arab neighborhoods would be under Palestinian sovereignty, so it could be the capital of a Palestinian state.
• No one would have sovereignty in the holy basin in Jerusalem containing sites holy to Jews, Muslims and Christians, including the Mount of Olives, the City of David and part of the Arab neighborhood of Silwan. This area “would be jointly administered by five nations, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Palestinian state, Israel and the United States.”
• No “right of return” for Palestinian refugees. Israel would agree on a humanitarian basis to accept 1,000 refugees every year for five years “on the basis that this would be the end of conflict and the end of claims.” An effort would also be made to establish an international fund to “compensate Palestinians for their suffering.” The agreement would also include recognition of the suffering of Jews from Arab countries who were forced out of their homes after 1948.
• Palestine would have a strong police force, “everything needed for law enforcement.” It would have no army or air force.
• The Palestinian border with Jordan would be patrolled by international forces – possibly from NATO. The Palestinians would not allow any foreign army to enter Palestine, and its government would not be permitted to enter into any military agreement with a country that does not recognize Israel.
• Israel would retain the right to defend itself beyond the borders of a Palestinian state and to pursue terrorists across the border.
• Israel would be allowed access to airspace over Palestine, and the Israel Defense Forces would have rights to the disproportionate use of the telecommunications spectrum.

---

---

Thanks to AICE:
Sources:
Ehud Olmert, “Stop Focusing on the Settlements to Achieve Peace in the Middle East,” Washington Post, (July 17, 2009);
Greg Sheridan, “Ehud Olmert still dreams of peace,” The Australian, (November 28, 2009);
Bernard Avishai, “A Plan for Peace That Still Could Be,” New York Times Magazine, (February 7, 2011);
Condoleezza Rice, “Condoleezza Rice Memoir: Peace-Process Anguish,” Newsweek, (October 23, 2011);
Avi Isacharoff, “Revealed: Olmert's 2008 peace offer to Palestinians,” Jerusalem Post, (May 24, 2013);
“Abbas says he rejected Olmert peace offer in 2008 over unseen map,” i24NEWS, (November 19, 2015);
Benny Begin, “Why Abbas Rejects Trump's Deal (And Any Other Deal With Israel),” Haaretz, (March 6, 2020).

Most Respectfully,
R

WOW, that sucks.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Art of Compromise
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You have to ask: How much better off would the Arab Palestinian be TODAY if they had accepted the Olmert peace offer in 2008?

WOW, that sucks.

(COMMENT)

Get your thinking cap on...

✦ How much longer are the greedy Arab Palestinians Upper Class going to hold back the Arab Palestinian People?​

​

✦ Who gains from the continuation of the Arab Palestinian - Israeli Conflict? ​

​

✦ Where is the wealth of donor dollars gone?​

​

✦ Are the Arab Palestinian People better off or worse off today THAN in 2005-2008?​

​

✦ Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?​

​

✦ Under Mahmoud Abbas → look at how much the Arab Palestinians have lost in economic and political terms?​

It is about time the Arab Palestinian People decide if they want to continue the downhill trend.... ...

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

• PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”​

• Fatah Commissioner for Refugees and UNRWA: “Our cause is political and not humanitarian”​

• PA Foreign Minister: “The refugees’ [political] rights are firm and do not wane with the passage of time.”​

(full article online)

Crucial PA admission: UNRWA is a political, not a humanitarian organization | PMW Analysis

PA Minister of Social Development: “UNRWA is not an institution that provides services to the refugees, but rather a political symbol of the right of return”

www.palwatch.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: The Art of Compromise
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You have to ask: How much better off would the Arab Palestinian be TODAY if they had accepted the Olmert peace offer in 2008?


(COMMENT)

Get your thinking cap on...

✦ How much longer are the greedy Arab Palestinians Upper Class going to hold back the Arab Palestinian People?​

​

✦ Who gains from the continuation of the Arab Palestinian - Israeli Conflict? ​

​

✦ Where is the wealth of donor dollars gone?​

​

✦ Are the Arab Palestinian People better off or worse off today THAN in 2005-2008?​

​

✦ Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?​

​

✦ Under Mahmoud Abbas → look at how much the Arab Palestinians have lost in economic and political terms?​

It is about time the Arab Palestinian People decide if they want to continue the downhill trend.... ...

Most Respectfully,
R

✦ Who gains from the continuation of the Arab Palestinian - Israeli Conflict?

The Palestinians are gaining. More and more people are seeing Israel as the turd in the punch bowl.

✦ Who is actually working n the best interest of the Arab Palestinian People?

BDS, and the many other Palestinian events.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Saudi Journalist and researcher Abdullah bin Bijad said in a November 26, 2021 interview on MBC TV (Saudi Arabia) that Hamas is a murderous terrorist organization that only claims to represent the causes of Palestine, Jerusalem, and Islam, while in reality it is advancing Iranian plots to destroy and occupy the Arab world. He said that Hamas and its actions are political in nature, and not religious, and he criticized it for killing Palestinians and attacking journalists for the benefit of its political goals.

 

[Hollie]

WOW, that sucks.

It does to be you, I suppose. When you think of the cultural, economic and social stagnation that has gripped both of the Pally enclaves, they’ve become little more than mini versions of ISIS desperately trying to occupy their new-found caliphate.

I believe it was Ariel Sharon’s construction of the barrier wall along the West Bank that represented the end of the road for Israeli acceptance of any two-state solution. The wall was constructed to prevent the continued pally islamic terrorist attacks that originated from that region. The alternative was neither negotiation nor appeasement as the failure of all previous attempts at negotiation with Islamic retrogrades had demonstrated all too clearly that they understand only force of arms in response to ceaseless gee-had attacks.

So what are your options. Another 70 years of begging for welfare?

 

[Hollie]

The Palestinians are gaining. More and more people are seeing Israel as the turd in the punch bowl.

BDS, and the many other Palestinian events.

What are Pally terrorists gaining? Welfare contributions are not what they used to be.

BDS is ineffective. People understand it’s a front for Islamic terrorists and their supporters.


A few leftists, (your BDS heroes), have accomplished virtually nothing.

Israel Economy > GDP Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy > GDP. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

 

[P F Tinmore]

What are Pally terrorists gaining? Welfare contributions are not what they used to be.

BDS is ineffective. People understand it’s a front for Islamic terrorists and their supporters.


A few leftists, (your BDS heroes), have accomplished virtually nothing.

Israel Economy > GDP Facts & Stats

Find out how Israel ranks internationally on Economy > GDP. Get the facts and compare to other countries!

www.nationmaster.com

I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.

 

[rylah]

I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.

And we hear all the sportscars on which Arabs arrive
to li(n)e up for unemployment and social security each week...

 

[Hollie]

I hear that the poverty rate in Israel is growing.

No. You didn’t.

You needed to dance around the failure of the Pallys to make any meaningful attempt at forming a functioning civil society.