Who are the Israelis?

[rylah]

Israel's Jewish Indigenous Land Rights: A Conversation with Nan Greer, Part 1 (Judean Rose)

The curriculum vitae of Nan Marie Greer, Ph.D. at eight pages long, is as long your arm (or more probably, your legs). It seems there’s nothing she can’t do, and she does it all extremely well. Currently, an adjunct lecturer at the University of Redlands in California, Greer teaches cultural and environmental anthropology in addition to indigenous land rights.

Nan reached out to me and my husband a few years back, introducing herself. She wanted help exploring the indigenous rights of the Jewish people, which she felt needed to be—deserved to be—enshrined in law. Impressed with her sincerity and her knowledge, we promised to do whatever we could to help her.
This two-part interview lays out Nan Greer’s vision for the people of Israel. That vision points to a resolution to territorial disputes between Arabs and Jews, the protection of both Jewish and Arab rights, and the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere. Of course it all sounds far-fetched until you read what Nan Greer has to say. And then it all makes perfect sense.

Judean Rose: What does it mean to be an indigenous people? Are the Jews an indigenous people?
Nan Greer: The ILO Convention 169 and the U.N. working definitionare the most utilized and notable documents referring to indigenous people, with the U.N.D.R.I.P. established to identify rights of indigenous people under international law. ILO Convention 169, finalized in 1989 has not been revised to contain the U.N. definition of indigenous, listed on their websites and formal documents. However, ILO Convention 169 states: “Article 1: This convention applies to…”, it DOES NOT state, this convention “DEFINES” indigenous.
All but one organization of the U.N. maintains the definition developed by Martinez Cobo as published in U.N. documents and websites. UNESCO is NOT consistent with other U.N. organizations, and fails to utilize the U.N. working definition of indigenous.
For the purposes of international litigation, a working definition of indigenous people was established and published in U.N. policy documents and websites deriving from José Martinez Cobo’s definition:

1. Self-identification as indigenous people at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;
2. Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;
3. Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;
4. Distinct social, economic, or political systems;
5. Distinct language, culture, and beliefs;
6. Form non-dominant groups of society; and,
7. Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

Critical to this definition is the identification of indigenous people having a language and belief system distinct to the area claimed in its ancestral land rights, and not generalizable to other areas, such as Arab-Muslim groups claiming lands in multiple nation-states throughout the Middle East.

Judean Rose: Why is it important for Jews to be accepted as an indigenous people? What are the implications of being indigenous to Israel?
Nan Greer: Currently, the observer state of Palestine has introduced several measures that are replicas of specific articles of rights in the UNDRIP However, they have never signed the UNDRIP, nor attempted to use the UN definition of indigenous in international circles - wisely so, as they fall outside the bounds of this critical, widely-used, and internationally recognized definition.

While the P.A. has not pushed for legal recognition of its Arab-Muslim people as indigenous, they have been awarded approximately U$1.8 billion for legal fees directed at attacking Israel in international and national courts. If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state, it allows them to jeopardize indigeneity everywhere. This ultimately leads to the justification of colonial domination of indigenous people throughout the world - a risk that is simply not acceptable to the U.N. and the international community.

As such, the opportunity exists for Israel to protect the indigenous Jews, and to delineate and protect communities of long-standing presence in a manner not recognized under current colonial and political formations. Indeed, much of the Arab-Muslim population has been colonized by highly politicized P.A. structures aimed at the elimination of the Jewish indigenous nation, using the Arab population, as it were, in a political war - threatening children utilized as soldiers and human shields in war, impoverishing families, and promoting lifestyles of terror. Under international law, Druze, Bedouin, and other Arab groups may not be considered indigenous as they do not have a language and religious beliefs distinct to Israel. However, they deserve a humanitarian approach outside the bounds of corruption of the current P.A. and Gaza political arrangement. Ultimately, adjudicating each land dispute and presence claim of a given group ought to occur in the legal system of the nation state, not outside of the country of Israel.

Judean Rose: Tell us about your work with other indigenous peoples.
Nan Greer: I have worked with the Mayangna and Miskitú of Central America for over 25 years now - and I continue to work with them to this day. Initially, I worked with these groups on a consultation for writing a land law that would help them to protect their lands (Law 445, Nicaragua), which defined the indigenous right to land, outlined a procedure for making a traditional land claim, and determined a phase of normalization of land tenure in the indigenous autonomous regions of the North Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAN) and South Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAS).

Read full article here

If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state,

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel's Jewish Indigenous Land Rights: A Conversation with Nan Greer, Part 1 (Judean Rose)

The curriculum vitae of Nan Marie Greer, Ph.D. at eight pages long, is as long your arm (or more probably, your legs). It seems there’s nothing she can’t do, and she does it all extremely well. Currently, an adjunct lecturer at the University of Redlands in California, Greer teaches cultural and environmental anthropology in addition to indigenous land rights.

Nan reached out to me and my husband a few years back, introducing herself. She wanted help exploring the indigenous rights of the Jewish people, which she felt needed to be—deserved to be—enshrined in law. Impressed with her sincerity and her knowledge, we promised to do whatever we could to help her.
This two-part interview lays out Nan Greer’s vision for the people of Israel. That vision points to a resolution to territorial disputes between Arabs and Jews, the protection of both Jewish and Arab rights, and the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere. Of course it all sounds far-fetched until you read what Nan Greer has to say. And then it all makes perfect sense.

Judean Rose: What does it mean to be an indigenous people? Are the Jews an indigenous people?
Nan Greer: The ILO Convention 169 and the U.N. working definitionare the most utilized and notable documents referring to indigenous people, with the U.N.D.R.I.P. established to identify rights of indigenous people under international law. ILO Convention 169, finalized in 1989 has not been revised to contain the U.N. definition of indigenous, listed on their websites and formal documents. However, ILO Convention 169 states: “Article 1: This convention applies to…”, it DOES NOT state, this convention “DEFINES” indigenous.
All but one organization of the U.N. maintains the definition developed by Martinez Cobo as published in U.N. documents and websites. UNESCO is NOT consistent with other U.N. organizations, and fails to utilize the U.N. working definition of indigenous.
For the purposes of international litigation, a working definition of indigenous people was established and published in U.N. policy documents and websites deriving from José Martinez Cobo’s definition:

1. Self-identification as indigenous people at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;
2. Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;
3. Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;
4. Distinct social, economic, or political systems;
5. Distinct language, culture, and beliefs;
6. Form non-dominant groups of society; and,
7. Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

Critical to this definition is the identification of indigenous people having a language and belief system distinct to the area claimed in its ancestral land rights, and not generalizable to other areas, such as Arab-Muslim groups claiming lands in multiple nation-states throughout the Middle East.

Judean Rose: Why is it important for Jews to be accepted as an indigenous people? What are the implications of being indigenous to Israel?
Nan Greer: Currently, the observer state of Palestine has introduced several measures that are replicas of specific articles of rights in the UNDRIP However, they have never signed the UNDRIP, nor attempted to use the UN definition of indigenous in international circles - wisely so, as they fall outside the bounds of this critical, widely-used, and internationally recognized definition.

While the P.A. has not pushed for legal recognition of its Arab-Muslim people as indigenous, they have been awarded approximately U$1.8 billion for legal fees directed at attacking Israel in international and national courts. If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state, it allows them to jeopardize indigeneity everywhere. This ultimately leads to the justification of colonial domination of indigenous people throughout the world - a risk that is simply not acceptable to the U.N. and the international community.

As such, the opportunity exists for Israel to protect the indigenous Jews, and to delineate and protect communities of long-standing presence in a manner not recognized under current colonial and political formations. Indeed, much of the Arab-Muslim population has been colonized by highly politicized P.A. structures aimed at the elimination of the Jewish indigenous nation, using the Arab population, as it were, in a political war - threatening children utilized as soldiers and human shields in war, impoverishing families, and promoting lifestyles of terror. Under international law, Druze, Bedouin, and other Arab groups may not be considered indigenous as they do not have a language and religious beliefs distinct to Israel. However, they deserve a humanitarian approach outside the bounds of corruption of the current P.A. and Gaza political arrangement. Ultimately, adjudicating each land dispute and presence claim of a given group ought to occur in the legal system of the nation state, not outside of the country of Israel.

Judean Rose: Tell us about your work with other indigenous peoples.
Nan Greer: I have worked with the Mayangna and Miskitú of Central America for over 25 years now - and I continue to work with them to this day. Initially, I worked with these groups on a consultation for writing a land law that would help them to protect their lands (Law 445, Nicaragua), which defined the indigenous right to land, outlined a procedure for making a traditional land claim, and determined a phase of normalization of land tenure in the indigenous autonomous regions of the North Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAN) and South Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAS).

Read full article here

If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state,

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

 

[rylah]

Israel's Jewish Indigenous Land Rights: A Conversation with Nan Greer, Part 1 (Judean Rose)

The curriculum vitae of Nan Marie Greer, Ph.D. at eight pages long, is as long your arm (or more probably, your legs). It seems there’s nothing she can’t do, and she does it all extremely well. Currently, an adjunct lecturer at the University of Redlands in California, Greer teaches cultural and environmental anthropology in addition to indigenous land rights.

Nan reached out to me and my husband a few years back, introducing herself. She wanted help exploring the indigenous rights of the Jewish people, which she felt needed to be—deserved to be—enshrined in law. Impressed with her sincerity and her knowledge, we promised to do whatever we could to help her.
This two-part interview lays out Nan Greer’s vision for the people of Israel. That vision points to a resolution to territorial disputes between Arabs and Jews, the protection of both Jewish and Arab rights, and the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere. Of course it all sounds far-fetched until you read what Nan Greer has to say. And then it all makes perfect sense.

Judean Rose: What does it mean to be an indigenous people? Are the Jews an indigenous people?
Nan Greer: The ILO Convention 169 and the U.N. working definitionare the most utilized and notable documents referring to indigenous people, with the U.N.D.R.I.P. established to identify rights of indigenous people under international law. ILO Convention 169, finalized in 1989 has not been revised to contain the U.N. definition of indigenous, listed on their websites and formal documents. However, ILO Convention 169 states: “Article 1: This convention applies to…”, it DOES NOT state, this convention “DEFINES” indigenous.
All but one organization of the U.N. maintains the definition developed by Martinez Cobo as published in U.N. documents and websites. UNESCO is NOT consistent with other U.N. organizations, and fails to utilize the U.N. working definition of indigenous.
For the purposes of international litigation, a working definition of indigenous people was established and published in U.N. policy documents and websites deriving from José Martinez Cobo’s definition:

1. Self-identification as indigenous people at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;
2. Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;
3. Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;
4. Distinct social, economic, or political systems;
5. Distinct language, culture, and beliefs;
6. Form non-dominant groups of society; and,
7. Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

Critical to this definition is the identification of indigenous people having a language and belief system distinct to the area claimed in its ancestral land rights, and not generalizable to other areas, such as Arab-Muslim groups claiming lands in multiple nation-states throughout the Middle East.

Judean Rose: Why is it important for Jews to be accepted as an indigenous people? What are the implications of being indigenous to Israel?
Nan Greer: Currently, the observer state of Palestine has introduced several measures that are replicas of specific articles of rights in the UNDRIP However, they have never signed the UNDRIP, nor attempted to use the UN definition of indigenous in international circles - wisely so, as they fall outside the bounds of this critical, widely-used, and internationally recognized definition.

While the P.A. has not pushed for legal recognition of its Arab-Muslim people as indigenous, they have been awarded approximately U$1.8 billion for legal fees directed at attacking Israel in international and national courts. If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state, it allows them to jeopardize indigeneity everywhere. This ultimately leads to the justification of colonial domination of indigenous people throughout the world - a risk that is simply not acceptable to the U.N. and the international community.

As such, the opportunity exists for Israel to protect the indigenous Jews, and to delineate and protect communities of long-standing presence in a manner not recognized under current colonial and political formations. Indeed, much of the Arab-Muslim population has been colonized by highly politicized P.A. structures aimed at the elimination of the Jewish indigenous nation, using the Arab population, as it were, in a political war - threatening children utilized as soldiers and human shields in war, impoverishing families, and promoting lifestyles of terror. Under international law, Druze, Bedouin, and other Arab groups may not be considered indigenous as they do not have a language and religious beliefs distinct to Israel. However, they deserve a humanitarian approach outside the bounds of corruption of the current P.A. and Gaza political arrangement. Ultimately, adjudicating each land dispute and presence claim of a given group ought to occur in the legal system of the nation state, not outside of the country of Israel.

Judean Rose: Tell us about your work with other indigenous peoples.
Nan Greer: I have worked with the Mayangna and Miskitú of Central America for over 25 years now - and I continue to work with them to this day. Initially, I worked with these groups on a consultation for writing a land law that would help them to protect their lands (Law 445, Nicaragua), which defined the indigenous right to land, outlined a procedure for making a traditional land claim, and determined a phase of normalization of land tenure in the indigenous autonomous regions of the North Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAN) and South Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAS).

Read full article here

If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state,

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

That ridiculous nonsense is bordering insanity and pathological lying.
Jews started actively claiming their ancestral lands already in the 18th century, in fact every Jewish community in the world supported the Jews living in Israel, every piece of land that was owned or stoled by from them was collectively owned by the various Jewish communities who invested in the same land more than any other people in history.

You didn't answer the question, why is that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel's Jewish Indigenous Land Rights: A Conversation with Nan Greer, Part 1 (Judean Rose)

The curriculum vitae of Nan Marie Greer, Ph.D. at eight pages long, is as long your arm (or more probably, your legs). It seems there’s nothing she can’t do, and she does it all extremely well. Currently, an adjunct lecturer at the University of Redlands in California, Greer teaches cultural and environmental anthropology in addition to indigenous land rights.

Nan reached out to me and my husband a few years back, introducing herself. She wanted help exploring the indigenous rights of the Jewish people, which she felt needed to be—deserved to be—enshrined in law. Impressed with her sincerity and her knowledge, we promised to do whatever we could to help her.
This two-part interview lays out Nan Greer’s vision for the people of Israel. That vision points to a resolution to territorial disputes between Arabs and Jews, the protection of both Jewish and Arab rights, and the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere. Of course it all sounds far-fetched until you read what Nan Greer has to say. And then it all makes perfect sense.

Judean Rose: What does it mean to be an indigenous people? Are the Jews an indigenous people?
Nan Greer: The ILO Convention 169 and the U.N. working definitionare the most utilized and notable documents referring to indigenous people, with the U.N.D.R.I.P. established to identify rights of indigenous people under international law. ILO Convention 169, finalized in 1989 has not been revised to contain the U.N. definition of indigenous, listed on their websites and formal documents. However, ILO Convention 169 states: “Article 1: This convention applies to…”, it DOES NOT state, this convention “DEFINES” indigenous.
All but one organization of the U.N. maintains the definition developed by Martinez Cobo as published in U.N. documents and websites. UNESCO is NOT consistent with other U.N. organizations, and fails to utilize the U.N. working definition of indigenous.
For the purposes of international litigation, a working definition of indigenous people was established and published in U.N. policy documents and websites deriving from José Martinez Cobo’s definition:

1. Self-identification as indigenous people at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;
2. Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;
3. Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;
4. Distinct social, economic, or political systems;
5. Distinct language, culture, and beliefs;
6. Form non-dominant groups of society; and,
7. Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

Critical to this definition is the identification of indigenous people having a language and belief system distinct to the area claimed in its ancestral land rights, and not generalizable to other areas, such as Arab-Muslim groups claiming lands in multiple nation-states throughout the Middle East.

Judean Rose: Why is it important for Jews to be accepted as an indigenous people? What are the implications of being indigenous to Israel?
Nan Greer: Currently, the observer state of Palestine has introduced several measures that are replicas of specific articles of rights in the UNDRIP However, they have never signed the UNDRIP, nor attempted to use the UN definition of indigenous in international circles - wisely so, as they fall outside the bounds of this critical, widely-used, and internationally recognized definition.

While the P.A. has not pushed for legal recognition of its Arab-Muslim people as indigenous, they have been awarded approximately U$1.8 billion for legal fees directed at attacking Israel in international and national courts. If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state, it allows them to jeopardize indigeneity everywhere. This ultimately leads to the justification of colonial domination of indigenous people throughout the world - a risk that is simply not acceptable to the U.N. and the international community.

As such, the opportunity exists for Israel to protect the indigenous Jews, and to delineate and protect communities of long-standing presence in a manner not recognized under current colonial and political formations. Indeed, much of the Arab-Muslim population has been colonized by highly politicized P.A. structures aimed at the elimination of the Jewish indigenous nation, using the Arab population, as it were, in a political war - threatening children utilized as soldiers and human shields in war, impoverishing families, and promoting lifestyles of terror. Under international law, Druze, Bedouin, and other Arab groups may not be considered indigenous as they do not have a language and religious beliefs distinct to Israel. However, they deserve a humanitarian approach outside the bounds of corruption of the current P.A. and Gaza political arrangement. Ultimately, adjudicating each land dispute and presence claim of a given group ought to occur in the legal system of the nation state, not outside of the country of Israel.

Judean Rose: Tell us about your work with other indigenous peoples.
Nan Greer: I have worked with the Mayangna and Miskitú of Central America for over 25 years now - and I continue to work with them to this day. Initially, I worked with these groups on a consultation for writing a land law that would help them to protect their lands (Law 445, Nicaragua), which defined the indigenous right to land, outlined a procedure for making a traditional land claim, and determined a phase of normalization of land tenure in the indigenous autonomous regions of the North Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAN) and South Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAS).

Read full article here

If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state,

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

That ridiculous nonsense is bordering insanity and pathological lying.
You didn't answer the question, why is that?

Irrelevant question. What were Native Americans called before it was America?

 

[rylah]

Israel's Jewish Indigenous Land Rights: A Conversation with Nan Greer, Part 1 (Judean Rose)

The curriculum vitae of Nan Marie Greer, Ph.D. at eight pages long, is as long your arm (or more probably, your legs). It seems there’s nothing she can’t do, and she does it all extremely well. Currently, an adjunct lecturer at the University of Redlands in California, Greer teaches cultural and environmental anthropology in addition to indigenous land rights.

Nan reached out to me and my husband a few years back, introducing herself. She wanted help exploring the indigenous rights of the Jewish people, which she felt needed to be—deserved to be—enshrined in law. Impressed with her sincerity and her knowledge, we promised to do whatever we could to help her.
This two-part interview lays out Nan Greer’s vision for the people of Israel. That vision points to a resolution to territorial disputes between Arabs and Jews, the protection of both Jewish and Arab rights, and the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere. Of course it all sounds far-fetched until you read what Nan Greer has to say. And then it all makes perfect sense.

Judean Rose: What does it mean to be an indigenous people? Are the Jews an indigenous people?
Nan Greer: The ILO Convention 169 and the U.N. working definitionare the most utilized and notable documents referring to indigenous people, with the U.N.D.R.I.P. established to identify rights of indigenous people under international law. ILO Convention 169, finalized in 1989 has not been revised to contain the U.N. definition of indigenous, listed on their websites and formal documents. However, ILO Convention 169 states: “Article 1: This convention applies to…”, it DOES NOT state, this convention “DEFINES” indigenous.
All but one organization of the U.N. maintains the definition developed by Martinez Cobo as published in U.N. documents and websites. UNESCO is NOT consistent with other U.N. organizations, and fails to utilize the U.N. working definition of indigenous.
For the purposes of international litigation, a working definition of indigenous people was established and published in U.N. policy documents and websites deriving from José Martinez Cobo’s definition:

1. Self-identification as indigenous people at the individual level and accepted by the community as their member;
2. Historical continuity with pre-colonial and/or pre-settler societies;
3. Strong link to territories and surrounding natural resources;
4. Distinct social, economic, or political systems;
5. Distinct language, culture, and beliefs;
6. Form non-dominant groups of society; and,
7. Resolve to maintain and reproduce their ancestral environments and systems as distinct communities.

Critical to this definition is the identification of indigenous people having a language and belief system distinct to the area claimed in its ancestral land rights, and not generalizable to other areas, such as Arab-Muslim groups claiming lands in multiple nation-states throughout the Middle East.

Judean Rose: Why is it important for Jews to be accepted as an indigenous people? What are the implications of being indigenous to Israel?
Nan Greer: Currently, the observer state of Palestine has introduced several measures that are replicas of specific articles of rights in the UNDRIP However, they have never signed the UNDRIP, nor attempted to use the UN definition of indigenous in international circles - wisely so, as they fall outside the bounds of this critical, widely-used, and internationally recognized definition.

While the P.A. has not pushed for legal recognition of its Arab-Muslim people as indigenous, they have been awarded approximately U$1.8 billion for legal fees directed at attacking Israel in international and national courts. If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state, it allows them to jeopardize indigeneity everywhere. This ultimately leads to the justification of colonial domination of indigenous people throughout the world - a risk that is simply not acceptable to the U.N. and the international community.

As such, the opportunity exists for Israel to protect the indigenous Jews, and to delineate and protect communities of long-standing presence in a manner not recognized under current colonial and political formations. Indeed, much of the Arab-Muslim population has been colonized by highly politicized P.A. structures aimed at the elimination of the Jewish indigenous nation, using the Arab population, as it were, in a political war - threatening children utilized as soldiers and human shields in war, impoverishing families, and promoting lifestyles of terror. Under international law, Druze, Bedouin, and other Arab groups may not be considered indigenous as they do not have a language and religious beliefs distinct to Israel. However, they deserve a humanitarian approach outside the bounds of corruption of the current P.A. and Gaza political arrangement. Ultimately, adjudicating each land dispute and presence claim of a given group ought to occur in the legal system of the nation state, not outside of the country of Israel.

Judean Rose: Tell us about your work with other indigenous peoples.
Nan Greer: I have worked with the Mayangna and Miskitú of Central America for over 25 years now - and I continue to work with them to this day. Initially, I worked with these groups on a consultation for writing a land law that would help them to protect their lands (Law 445, Nicaragua), which defined the indigenous right to land, outlined a procedure for making a traditional land claim, and determined a phase of normalization of land tenure in the indigenous autonomous regions of the North Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAN) and South Atlantic Autonomous Region (RAAS).

Read full article here

If both Israel and the international community allow populations of merely “long-standing presence” to declare themselves indigenous, while not having a language, culture, or religion distinct to the geographical locale/nation-state,

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

That ridiculous nonsense is bordering insanity and pathological lying.
You didn't answer the question, why is that?

Irrelevant question. What were Native Americans called before it was America?

Navaho, Cherokee...

Back to Israel, is there any local indigenous language other than Hebrew?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So you are saying that the people in Latin American countries cannot be indigenous because they do not have distinct languages, religions, or cultures?

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

That ridiculous nonsense is bordering insanity and pathological lying.
You didn't answer the question, why is that?

Irrelevant question. What were Native Americans called before it was America?

Navaho, Cherokee...

Back to Israel, is there any local indigenous language other than Hebrew?

The native languages in Israel are Polish, Russian,...

 

[rylah]

You've messed it all up.
Indigenous nations are defined by a distinct culture tied to a specific land, just like the indigenous people of the Americas, Israelis have their unique civilization and land bearing their name that has no meaning in any other language, but in Hebrew.

All of those attributes are running contrary to Arab imperialism which seeks domination of a single culture over indigenous groups in the entire middle east ("from Morocco to Aden" as Arafat said)

Q. Is there any meaning to the words Palestine/Israel in Arabic?
Mere coincidence?

The Palestinians had been living there for hundreds even thousands of years uncontested. Even during the mass immigration in the early 20th century, nobody laid claim to a plot of land. Nobody came to claim property that belonged to their ancestors.

That ridiculous nonsense is bordering insanity and pathological lying.
You didn't answer the question, why is that?

Irrelevant question. What were Native Americans called before it was America?

Navaho, Cherokee...

Back to Israel, is there any local indigenous language other than Hebrew?

The native languages in Israel are Polish, Russian,...

Yet somehow they were always written in Hebrew.

Q.Care to explain how Arabs spoke more foreign languages than Jews during the mandate era?

 

[rylah]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

 

[rylah]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

 

[rylah]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

Let's not put a big eyed kitten face and pretend Arabs didn't ruin their life by attempting to murder the Jews "from the river to the sea", and expel them from the entire middle east -
they failed big in an act of historic justice.

Should be easy - the day You put the Swastika on Your flag is the day You write a farewell letter.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

Let's just not put a big eyed kitten face and pretend Arabs didn't ruin their life by attempting to murder the Jews "from the river to the sea", and expel them from the entire middle east -
they failed big in an act of historic justice.

Should be easy - the day You put the Swastika on Your flag is the day You write a farewell letter.

Is deflection all you got?

 

[rylah]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

Let's just not put a big eyed kitten face and pretend Arabs didn't ruin their life by attempting to murder the Jews "from the river to the sea", and expel them from the entire middle east -
they failed big in an act of historic justice.

Should be easy - the day You put the Swastika on Your flag is the day You write a farewell letter.

Is deflection all you got?

You can look into the Eichman precedent for clarity regarding justice.
Why should the new generation of Hitler Youth in Gaza be treated differently?

Israel gives equal justice to all Nazi filth.

 

[rylah]

Yaron Svoray - The story of a spy and Nazi Hunter

Israeli Police Detective Yaron Svoray recounts how he became an undercover Nazi hunter and infiltrated Neo-Nazi terrorist groups in Germany, leading to arrests of the movement's leaders.

 

[rylah]

Dr. Mordechai Kedar - Why Muslims are opposed to Jewish prayer

 

[USAF 2023]

Dr. Mordechai Kedar - Why Muslims are opposed to Jewish prayer

There will be no response from Tinmore. ; There never has Ben when asked about something that even he can’t defend. The silence is Deflection.

 

[Shusha]

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

This is actually a really good question. The problem is that you, and many Arab Palestinians, define restoration and justice in only the most narrow and backward-looking sense: put things back they way they were. But the world is a complicated place. History has happened. You can't unbreak eggs. And ultimately, that demand to "put things back the way they were" means only to restore certain people to a certain point of time and a certain place. That does not actually create justice nor fulfill aspirations.

The second question - "What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?" - is the one they should be asking. What do they aspire to? What can they achieve? If they aspire to return to being farmers on THAT particular plot of land, they will achieve nothing. But what if they aspired to building a thriving, secure, safe haven built on their own values and beliefs and community? In at least part of Palestine? Do you think they should not aspire to that? Do you think they are incapable of achieving that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

This is actually a really good question. The problem is that you, and many Arab Palestinians, define restoration and justice in only the most narrow and backward-looking sense: put things back they way they were. But the world is a complicated place. History has happened. You can't unbreak eggs. And ultimately, that demand to "put things back the way they were" means only to restore certain people to a certain point of time and a certain place. That does not actually create justice nor fulfill aspirations.

The second question - "What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?" - is the one they should be asking. What do they aspire to? What can they achieve? If they aspire to return to being farmers on THAT particular plot of land, they will achieve nothing. But what if they aspired to building a thriving, secure, safe haven built on their own values and beliefs and community? In at least part of Palestine? Do you think they should not aspire to that? Do you think they are incapable of achieving that?

You surely missed the point.

 

[Hollie]

Conversation: Israeli Settlements & Expansion

Too many today have willingly engaged, or been tricked into, an ideological front attempting to minimize Jewish identity, disconnect Jews from their native land/culture, and demonizing the very idea of Jews living and being empowered in their homeland.

Judea & Samaria, also referred to as the “West Bank” (British name), is the cradle of Jewish civilization. Jews rebuilding their cities and villages is not an act of colonization. To the contrary, it is an act of decolonization. Jews returning to their native homeland and reviving their civilization is an act of justice that undoes the injustices that were committed against them.

There have always been non-Jews living in Israel. Even when we go back thousands of years, non-Jews were a minority, but they lived as equals in Judea/Israel. Palestinians/Arabs, Christians, Druze, Bedouin, Cherkesim, Armenians, or any other non-Jewish minority group living in Israel, has the right to full equality. The problem today is with Gaza and Judea & Samaria (West Bank).

There is a 3-part-occupation in Judea & Samaria that forces both Israelis and Palestinians to suffer while preventing both sides from ultimately achieving justice and a sense of self-determination.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

The injustices on either side were caused by a series of wars. The only way that we move forward is for both sides to stop illustrating their narratives as completely opposing to one another. Justice for Israel is not the defeat of Palestinians and justice for Palestinians is not the defeat of Israel. If you are pushing such a view, your ideas are the fuel that allows this conflict to live on.

The reality is that the status quo is unjust to all players on the ground, and in order to move forward and obtain a better future, we must end the injustices that all sides experience while creating a reality that helps those involved achieve their aspirations.

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

Shirley, the Arab-Moslem aspiration of driving the Jews into the sea with gunfire (and a forever welfare fraud system), will sustain the Arab-Moslem psyche.

 

[Shusha]

There are Palestinian who owned orange groves in Jaffa, or a farm in Najd, or... Now they are living in Gaza in shacks, living off of food aid. What kind of justice can these people expect? What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?

This is actually a really good question. The problem is that you, and many Arab Palestinians, define restoration and justice in only the most narrow and backward-looking sense: put things back they way they were. But the world is a complicated place. History has happened. You can't unbreak eggs. And ultimately, that demand to "put things back the way they were" means only to restore certain people to a certain point of time and a certain place. That does not actually create justice nor fulfill aspirations.

The second question - "What kind of aspirations can they expect to achieve?" - is the one they should be asking. What do they aspire to? What can they achieve? If they aspire to return to being farmers on THAT particular plot of land, they will achieve nothing. But what if they aspired to building a thriving, secure, safe haven built on their own values and beliefs and community? In at least part of Palestine? Do you think they should not aspire to that? Do you think they are incapable of achieving that?

You surely missed the point.

How so?

Was your point that there can never be any justice for Arab Palestinians and that they shouldn't aspire to anything because they can't achieve anything?