White man shoots innocent black teen....

[Emma]

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.

 

[theHawk]

news reports not telling whole story

true story

Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?

yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.

and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.

hello?

neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others

Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.


By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front? At what range?

 

[Crackerjack]

If the kid tried to go for Zimmerman's gun, he had every right to shoot him.

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005. As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.

 

[bayoubill]

I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.

From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route. It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.

That's why the Feds need to step in.

oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...

 

[Sallow]

Doesn't make much sense that he'd be on the phone with the police for so long then commit murder.

Think it would depend where he got shot at, if it was on his own property then there is nothing to it. If he chased him down and shot him in the back, that would be suspicious.

Of course the media doesn't bother reporting where it actually took place, and they make Zimmerman out to be a racist, even though he is hispanic.

A Hispanic can't be racist?

Regarding where the shooting took place, several of the 911 callers describe that this happened behind their homes, and then this from the link posted above:

Martin had been staying at his father's girlfriend's house during the night of the NBA all-star game Feb. 26.



On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman.



Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents at a town hall.



A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.
But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red sweatshirt and pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses, about 70 yards from where the teen was going.

According to liberals, no, a minority cannot be a racist.

Zimmerman is in no way obligated to listen to a 911 dispatcher. Citizens are allowed to contront and stop crimes if they are happening. Flordia's law, in fact, says that anyone is allowed to hold their ground with deadly force if they feel threatened. There is no obligation to try to run away in order to claim self-defense. It would be very hard to convict him of murder with such a law.

Well I suppose..given that's the law..one of the family members can legally blow this guy's head off. After all..he killed a family member..right?

How much more of a threat do you need?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

you people are so stupid. you are making things up without at least a news source.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

news reports not telling whole story

true story

Has anyone paid attention to this story lately?

yeah the man Zimmerman(?) had a bloody nose and the so called kid, the family is NOT forthcoming on his record of behavior and issues relating to discipline.

and I think Zimmerman is Hispanic.

hello?

neighborhood is a gated community, it is a multicultural mixed too. 50% white / 20% Hispanic / 20% black and mixed Asians and others

Uh-oh, that doesn't fit the media narrative that he is a gun nut that shot the kid in cold blood.


By the way, was this kid shot in the back or the front? At what range?

that is NOT the media narrative. that is one media narrative. the straight news, never said anything like that. never

 

[Sallow]

I wonder if the DA doesn't want to press charges in an effort to avoid exposing how badly the police fucked up the initial investigation.

From the sound of it, the kid's family was well advised to pursue the civil route. It sounds just muddled enough to make it difficult to prosecute for the state.

That's why the Feds need to step in.

oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...

Well it sounds like the locals are doing a "bang up" job..don't it?

His record is "squeaky clean" so we have a one murder rule around here..dang it.

 

[Emma]

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid.

I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case.

I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.

 

[Peach]

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005. As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.

******************************************************
Yes..................................................thus, more complex.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005. As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.

deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?

 

[Emma]

That's why the Feds need to step in.

oh for sure... the Feds will save the day...

Well it sounds like the locals are doing a "bang up" job..don't it?

His record is "squeaky clean" so we have a one murder rule around here..dang it.

My record is squeaky clean too. Perhaps I should move to Florida and break bad---but only once, of course. So I best make it a good one ...

 

[Crackerjack]

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.

The problem is that it stretches credulity to the breaking point to believe that an unarmed individual not named Bruce Lee was delivering deadly force to an armed individual twice his size.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Q. When can I use my handgun to protect myself?

A. Florida law justifies use of deadly force when you are:

Trying to protect yourself or another person from death or serious bodily harm;
Trying to prevent a forcible felony, such as rape, robbery, burglary or kidnapping.

Using or displaying a handgun in any other circumstances could result in your conviction for crimes such as improper exhibition of a firearm, manslaughter, or worse.

Example of the kind of attack that will not justify defending yourself with deadly force: Two neighbors got into a fight, and one of them tried to hit the other by swinging a garden hose. The neighbor who was being attacked with the hose shot the other in the chest. The court upheld his conviction for aggravated battery with a firearm, because an attack with a garden hose is not the kind of violent assault that justifies responding with deadly force.

Lawful Self-Defense - Weapons - Division of Licensing, FDACS

 

[theHawk]

Uh, no. One only has the right to use lethal force in response to lethal force. Grabbing at a person's firearm does not equal lethal force.

Absolutely false. People have the right to use deadly force in any situation where they are threatened. If someone is attacking with their fists, you have the right to shoot them.

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

And you've got to be kidding, you don't think someone trying to grab a gun away from someone doesn't merit lethal force in response? Try walking up to a police officer and grabbing his gun from him, see what that gets ya.

George Zimmerman ≠ police officer.

indeed.

LOL, wow you are clueless.

In the Republic of Texas you can shoot an intruder on your property, whether you "feel" threatened or not.

I never said Zimmerman was on officer, but the same standard would apply. If someone is trying to grab a gun out of your hand in a confrontation, you have every right to blow them away.

Unless of course you're going to argue that just because someone is "unarmed", that means they cannot be a danger to anyone. With that kind of logic a 250 pound man could threaten an 80 year old woman, and if she pulls out a gun and he tries to grab it and she blows him away, you'd have her hauled off to jail.

 

[Crackerjack]

in that state, I think people have the right to use lethal force if their life is in danger. somebody reaching for your gun puts your life in danger.

Florida changed their standard for justifiable use of deadly force in 2005. As it stands now, they have a "stand your ground" standard, which means one has no duty to retreat, but one must reasonably believe that using deadly force is necessary to prevent "imminent" use of deadly force against herself or others.

deadly force? only to prevent deadly force?

That's been the standard for self defense in most places that follow the English common law for a very long time.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

Well, we know that's a lie because Zimmerman himself told the dispatcher he was following this kid.

I'm not arguing that Zimmerman is racist, not enough has come out about his background to make that determination, and him being hispanic doesn't preclude him from being racist in any case.

I do think he's a cold-blooded murderer.

we don't know any such things. following in a car or on foot? not following from car? you are misunderstanding you listening to a tape and reading text for being able to state facts.

 

[Emma]

I didn't realize the police were in the habit of granting a mulligan to first-time criminals.

 

[Sallow]

Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

you people are so stupid. you are making things up without at least a news source.

George Zimmerman's father on Trayvon Martin: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin - South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

I wonder what "truth" would have Zimmerman out of his SUV and wrestling with Trayvon..that averts the whole "confronting" thing.

Perhaps Trayvon hook a chain to the SUV so it could follow him..then at the right moment "yanked" the much larger Zimmerman out of the truck.

That might work.

 

[Emma]

Here in the United States a person is not legally justified shooting a person without being put in fear of death or severe bodily injury, not just "any situation where they are threatened."

Seems like Zimmerman wasn't the one being threatened. He wasn't the one being watched then chased by a man with a gun.

The problem is that it stretches credulity to the breaking point to believe that an unarmed individual not named Bruce Lee was delivering deadly force to an armed individual twice his size.

That too ...