White House Checking IDs of High School Students

[Biggles]

More arrogant hypocrisy by Obama and his band of ignorant misfits.

More ignorant partisan hackery by a rightwing misfit.

Ya got one word right.

 

[boedicca]

Twisted or not they are Constitutional and legal. As, unfortunately, was the huge "government expansion" necessary to fight two foreign wars (including a war of choice). Go figure.....one person's "big government" is another's "Constitutionally valid government role" depending on which side of the aisle you are peering from.

Just because career politicians and lawyer have manipulated the law to institute an array of social engineering and income redistribution programs so that they are "legal" doesn't give such programs the same imperative and legitimacy as national security (defence), which is very specifically described in several areas of the Constitution.

 

[xotoxi]

Obama is better than our country huh?

Why do you have to "show your papers" to see the President but not when you break a law in this country?

Obama may personally greet each graduate: Kalamazoo Central seniors to fill out paperwork for Secret Service | - MLive.com

This is so cute. Two threads now on a policy that's been in place....how long?

I am sure it has been the policy for quite a while... and it should be.

We are just pointing out the hypocrisy.

Where's the hypocrisy?

 

[Modbert]

Merged - Modbert

 

[Coyote]

Twisted or not they are Constitutional and legal. As, unfortunately, was the huge "government expansion" necessary to fight two foreign wars (including a war of choice). Go figure.....one person's "big government" is another's "Constitutionally valid government role" depending on which side of the aisle you are peering from.

Just because career politicians and lawyer have manipulated the law to institute an array of social engineering and income redistribution programs so that they are "legal" doesn't give such programs the same imperative and legitimacy as national security (defence), which is very specifically described in several areas of the Constitution.

Career politicians and lawyers on both sides of the aisle have been manipulating the law to institute programs that are legal but questionably constitutional. They've also stretched the mandate of "national security" to include wars, laws and programs of questionable constitutionality.

The Constitution doesn't explicitely define what is "national security", as it doesn't explicitely define many things - hence the need for legal interpretation.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

....which...again....completes the circle of the question that never gets answered: what is "reasonable cause"?

Read the bill, then state what part of it you have a problem with.

Yer reading skills are .... interesting. The answer doesn't match the question.

What is "reasonable cause" to suspect some one is an illegal and require ID?

The wording "reasonble cause" is not in the bill. What is in the bill is "reasonable suspicion" And what constitutes reasonable suspicion could be a number of things including but not limited to, cannot speak nor comprehend the english language, having no form of verifiable ID.

Now with that said there is also a provision in the law ( had you actually taken the time to read it ) that mandates that all law enforcement officials and agencies that are enganged in implementing Senate Bill 1070 to be trained in what constitutes "reasonable suspicion".

“3. The course of training established by the board shall provide clear guidance to law enforcement officials regarding what constitutes reasonable suspicion, and shall make clear that an individual’s race, color, or national origin alone cannot be grounds for reasonable suspicion to believe any law has been violated.

4. Provide a list of the specific forms of identification that provide a presumption that a person is not an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States.”

 

[Coyote]

More arrogant hypocrisy by Obama and his band of ignorant misfits.

More ignorant partisan hackery by a rightwing misfit.

Ya got one word right.

1:0

I'm on a roll.

Think you'll get one?

 

[boedicca]

"Defence" is called out quite explicitly as a responsibility of the government.

You are just attempting to muddy the issue by tossing it in with a vast amount of nonsense for which the government wastes enormous sums of money.

Getting back to the OP: if we can check the IDs of high school students to shake the hand of the President, we should also check the IDs of people before they cross the border in the first place.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

or if you have a flat tire and he stops to help you, he then could use "reasonable cause" to ask for your ID. So if you look hispanic don't get a flat tire when a cop is around.

No the law specifically states that race, skin color or ethnicity is not enough reason to ask for legal status.

READ THE BILL!!!!!!!

what if they have hispanic music playing in their car?
My friend is half mexican and listens to mexican bands often, I guess he shouldn't go to AZ.

What if a frog had wings? Would it bump its ass on the ground when it hopped?

Please read the bill.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Doesn't say that in the bill.
It says lawful contact.

No the bill does not say lawful contact, it was revised and that language was removed.

Kind of like when Police Officers stop african americans because their "tail light" is out?

That would be a legal stop.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

what if they have hispanic music playing in their car?
My friend is half mexican and listens to mexican bands often, I guess he shouldn't go to AZ.

Show us where in the AZ law that playing hispanic music is a reasonable cause for detaining anyone.

It is in the federal law.

You'll have to prove that.

 

[HUGGY]

Look at the shreiking attacks on AZ because it is checking legal residency status.

If it's okay for the WHITE HOUSE to check such info just to shake the President's hand, why on earth shouldn't AZ be able to check green cards when a driver is detained?

The people at the White House are not checking the information. The kids are willingly giving the information to the Secret Service in order to have a opportunity to perhaps shake the POTUS's hand.

What don't you get about that?

They get it just fine. They want someone to kill Obama. I hope the secret service is checking on them.

 

[Coyote]

Read the bill, then state what part of it you have a problem with.

Yer reading skills are .... interesting. The answer doesn't match the question.

What is "reasonable cause" to suspect some one is an illegal and require ID?

The wording "reasonble cause" is not in the bill. What is in the bill is "reasonable suspicion" And what constitutes reasonable suspicion could be a number of things including but not limited to, cannot speak nor comprehend the english language, having no form of verifiable ID.

Lets talk about "reasonable suspicion" then - what constitutes reasonable suspicion?

Not speaking english well - that would apply to many legal residents as well and would be as discrimminatory as "racial profiling".

No form of verifiable ID - presumably, a drivers license. I could agree on that. If you are pulled over or arrested, you must be able to present ID. Not sure if ID is required in other cases though.

What are the other "number of things"?

Now with that said there is also a provision in the law ( had you actually taken the time to read it ) that mandates that all law enforcement officials and agencies that are enganged in implementing Senate Bill 1070 to be trained in what constitutes "reasonable suspicion".

“3. The course of training established by the board shall provide clear guidance to law enforcement officials regarding what constitutes reasonable suspicion, and shall make clear that an individual’s race, color, or national origin alone cannot be grounds for reasonable suspicion to believe any law has been violated.

4. Provide a list of the specific forms of identification that provide a presumption that a person is not an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States.”

It's good if they can be trained in this but there is still very little to go on in identifying "reasonable suspician" excluding racial/ethnic characteristics.

 

[Yurt]

this thread has really brought out the kooks...

apparently it is a privilege for us citizens to see their president and whatever kind of intrusive background check required by the president is ok...

but...its your right not to be asked for citizenship papers...if suspected of violating the law...

truly a sad day that we would tell people to shove it if they don't want to submit to an intrusive background check just to shake the president's hand, but we roundly condemn asking for citizenship or residency validation....when people get their green card (its really pink) they are told to keep it with them at all times

 

[Modbert]

this thread has really brought out the kooks...

apparently it is a privilege for us citizens to see their president and whatever kind of intrusive background check required by the president is ok...

but...its your right not to be asked for citizenship papers...if suspected of violating the law...

truly a sad day that we would tell people to shove it if they don't want to submit to an intrusive background check just to shake the president's hand, but we roundly condemn asking for citizenship or residency validation....when people get their green card (its really pink) they are told to keep it with them at all times

You may not of realized this, but we as a country have come to learn that letting just anyone walk up to the President and shake his hand without security precautions does not eventually end well.

 

[bodecea]

You people cant be this stupid can you?

Enough so to start 2 threads on this.

 

[Coyote]

"Defence" is called out quite explicitly as a responsibility of the government.

You are just attempting to muddy the issue by tossing it in with a vast amount of nonsense for which the government wastes enormous sums of money.

No. I'm not muddying it at all nor is this nonsense. It simply shows how things get twisted constitutionally to support chosen forms of government expansion. btw there was no such thing as "illegal immigration" when the Constitution was signed nor really, until 1882 when the xenophobic "yellow peril" act was signed into law to restrict Chinese immigration and subsequent laws restricting immigration and establishing quotas. Placing "immigration" under "defence" is one of those twists.

Getting back to the OP: if we can check the IDs of high school students to shake the hand of the President, we should also check the IDs of people before they cross the border in the first place.

That's not what you said in the OP.

You said: It's okay for the White House to require that High School Students provide ID information (Social Security #s and citizen status) to the Secret Service on the pretext that this is necessary to protect the President, but it's somehow not copacetic for police officers in AZ to check the green cards of immigrants caught speeding?

 

[Yurt]

this thread has really brought out the kooks...

apparently it is a privilege for us citizens to see their president and whatever kind of intrusive background check required by the president is ok...

but...its your right not to be asked for citizenship papers...if suspected of violating the law...

truly a sad day that we would tell people to shove it if they don't want to submit to an intrusive background check just to shake the president's hand, but we roundly condemn asking for citizenship or residency validation....when people get their green card (its really pink) they are told to keep it with them at all times

You may not of realized this, but we as a country have come to learn that letting just anyone walk up to the President and shake his hand without security precautions does not eventually end well.

i see...so its ok because it hasn't ended well...

how has the illegal immigration thingy turned out for you...using your logic, we should in fact be checking immigration status, thanks dog

and btw...please provide an example where someone harmed the president by getting permission to shake his hand without having a background check....thaks

 

[Dr Gregg]

Just when you think you've read the dumbest post on USMB from the whiny hacks, along comes this piece of shit OP. Yes, they should let anybody into the White House so the president can be assassinated, brilliant!

 

[Dr Gregg]

You dont have to be driving a car to be stopped by an officer.

Or speed, or be doing anything wrong except being "suspicious of being an illegal". which is the real problem people have with the law. I know,t he hacks don't care about reality and the facts, just make shit up to sling bullshit some more