White Americans and White South African are similar...

[Bass v 2.0]

In their racial thinking to blacks and other non-whites, some of them that is......


Robert Jensen: In South Africa, Apartheid is Dead, But White Supremacy Lingers On


That shouldn’t be surprising -- how could centuries of white supremacy simply disappear in 15 years? What did surprise me during my lecture tour was not the racial tension but how much discussions about race in South Africa sounded just like conversations in the United States. There was something eerily familiar to me, a lifelong white U.S. citizen, about those discussions. I have heard comments from black people in the United States like Cedile’s, but I’ve also heard white Americans articulate views on race that were sometimes exactly like white South Africans’. I learned that even with all the differences in the two countries there are equally important similarities, and as a result the sense of entitlement that so many white people hold onto produces similar dodges and denials.

Those similarities: South Africa and the United States were the two longstanding settler states that maintained legal apartheid long after the post-World War II decolonization process. The crucial term is “settler state,” marking a process by which an invading population exterminates or displaces and exploits the indigenous population to acquire its land and resources, with formal slavery playing a key role at some point in the country’s history. Both strategies were justified with overtly racist doctrines about white supremacy, and both required the white population to discard basic moral and religious principles, leading to a pathological psychology of superiority. Both of those settler strategies have left us with racialized disparities in wealth and well-being long after the formal apartheid is over.

The main difference: The United States struggles with its problem with a white majority, while South Africa has a black majority. But what I found fascinating his how little difference that made in terms of the psychological pathology of so many white people. So, as is typically the case, my trip to South Africa taught me not only about racism in South Africa but also in the United States, which reminded me that perhaps we travel to observe others so that we can learn about ourselves.




The first trend was the belief that whatever racism remained in South Africa, things will get better naturally, as long as South Africans respect all cultures. The argument seems to go something like this: Apartheid is over, we have a black government, and now it’s time to move ahead by understanding that the problem of race in no longer political but one of inadequate cultural understanding and engagement. This celebration of diversity is familiar to us in the United States, where institutions (especially corporations and schools) tend to address difficult questions about disparities in political power and the distribution of wealth through multiculturalism. While there’s nothing wrong, of course, with acknowledging cultural diversity and helping people learn more about other cultures, multiculturalism does not take the place of real politics, no matter how much many white people wish it could. Understanding others doesn’t automatically mean that those with unearned privileged will work to undermine the system that gives them that privilege.


Sounds eerily similar to what a lot of US whites say.

 

[xsited1]

Badmouth Whites all you want, but it will be the Asians that will dominate the world.

 

[JBeukema]

Badmouth Whites all you want, but it will be the Asians that will dominate the world.

I wouldn't be surprised. They have the highest IQ on average and they must be getting pretty angry, given the state of most of Asia

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Some more important key quotes:

* After a talk at the University of Johannesburg in which I argued for always keeping discussions of race grounded in the white-supremacy of the culture, a faculty member there took issue with the tone of my remarks. If we want to be a “post-racial” society, she suggested that dialogue without all the political baggage was necessary. The only path to racial harmony was to put aside the bitterness and find a common humanity, and part of the success of the interracial dialogues she was part of was the ability of the group to put race aside, she said.

I told her I had no problem with people pursuing such discussions so long as we didn’t pretend we could erase the effects of race with the snap of our fingers. Racial distinctions and racialized disparities in wealth endure, even without the legal enshrinement of them, and that reality has to be acknowledged. She pressed the claim that such a focus on race undermines commonality, noting that as a person of German and Jewish heritage, she knew this first hand. The comments from blacks in the room who disputed her call for color blindness didn’t dissuade her; she was adamant about the proper path. As she pressed on, I noticed a row of black students behind her rolling their eyes, suggesting they had heard this before and were tired of it. The price of admission to these race dialogues was to leave behind what people of color know about race, and one thing they know is that we whites typically are too quick to believe we have transcended race.




* “Instead of involving themselves in an all-out attempt to stamp out racism from their white society, liberals waste lots of time trying to prove to as many blacks as they can find that they are liberal. This arises out of the false belief that we are faced with a black problem. There is nothing the matter with blacks. The problem is WHITE RACISM and it rests squarely on the laps of the white society.”

In rejecting what he saw as a false integration, Biko made it clear he believed in real integration premised on a struggle for justice:

“If by integration you understand a breakthrough into white society by blacks, an assimilation and acceptance of blacks into an already established set of norms and code of behaviour set up by and maintained by whites, then YES I am against it. … If on the other hand by integration you mean there shall be free participation by all members of a society, catering for the full expression of the self in a freely changing society as determined by the will of the people, then I am with you.”


Steve Biko was the man, spoken so truthful.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Badmouth Whites all you want, but it will be the Asians that will dominate the world.

Chinese are already neocolonialists in certain African countries, but they will neve do what Europens did to the entire world with their imperialism and colonialism.

 

[Shogun]

Similar, indeed. Looks like they are both a group of peoples capable of creating a stable nation which your black ass enjoys more than the standard issue Tribal Warfare that is the reality of every other high population of blacks. The only difference between african tribes and the crips and bloods is location and ammo.

 

[WillowTree]

It Just Feels Right To Be White! good monday morning to ya racist bass!

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Similar, indeed. Looks like they are both a group of peoples capable of creating a stable nation which your black ass enjoys more than the standard issue


Tribal Warfare that is the reality of every other high population of blacks. The only difference between african tribes and the crips and bloods is location and ammo.

Plenty in common like creating stable nations for white people *ONLY* nations at the expense of exterminating, killing, raping, mongrelizing, enslaving, stealing land, oppressing and reducing native peoples and peoples of color to second and third class citizenship and then pretending that the causes that lead to the conditions that these oppressed people live in are their fault, while ignoring the fact that most of what the whites have in both South Africa and America is largely unearned, though you would like people to believe otherwise.

 

[William Joyce]

Whites in South Africa voluntarily gave up power to blacks, only to find that in the ensuing decade, crime skyrocketed and they became the targets of unspeakable acts.

So, yeah, probably some similarities there...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Similar, indeed. Looks like they are both a group of peoples capable of creating a stable nation which your black ass enjoys more than the standard issue


Tribal Warfare that is the reality of every other high population of blacks. The only difference between african tribes and the crips and bloods is location and ammo.

Plenty in common like creating stable nations for white people *ONLY* nations at the expense of exterminating, killing, raping, mongrelizing, enslaving, stealing land, oppressing and reducing native peoples and peoples of color to second and third class citizenship and then pretending that the causes that lead to the conditions that these oppressed people live in are their fault, while ignoring the fact that most of what the whites have in both South Africa and America is largely unearned, though you would like people to believe otherwise.

One fact you missed is that black people kill more black people in the US than whites do. So if anyone is eliminating people of color, it's people of color.

One question, the US was created for white people only? Now I know you're for a fact you're an idiot. and a racist.

 

[Shogun]

Similar, indeed. Looks like they are both a group of peoples capable of creating a stable nation which your black ass enjoys more than the standard issue


Tribal Warfare that is the reality of every other high population of blacks. The only difference between african tribes and the crips and bloods is location and ammo.

Plenty in common like creating stable nations for white people *ONLY* nations at the expense of exterminating, killing, raping, mongrelizing, enslaving, stealing land, oppressing and reducing native peoples and peoples of color to second and third class citizenship and then pretending that the causes that lead to the conditions that these oppressed people live in are their fault, while ignoring the fact that most of what the whites have in both South Africa and America is largely unearned, though you would like people to believe otherwise.

NO ONE is holding you back from making your own negro nation in Africa that rivals the civility of the white nation you enjoy so much..

... well, except for all those negros with machine guns, that is..

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Whites in South Africa voluntarily gave up power to blacks, only to find that in the ensuing decade, crime skyrocketed and they became the targets of unspeakable acts.

So, yeah, probably some similarities there...

Gave up power? The ANC were?are sellouts, period, they were willing to give up economic control to whites in order to end apartheid, most black South Africans will tell you this. The whites symbolically gave up power while retaining control of the country's wealth and economy, they really didn't lose much, if anything at all.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

NO ONE is holding you back from making your own negro nation in Africa that rivals the civility of the white nation you enjoy so much.

Listen mighty Joe Young, the US is not a white man's creation:


The 10 Biggest Myths About Black History

The Myth of Immaculate White Creation

Words whispered in nurseries and images stamped on impressionable minds and repeated day in and day out, year after year, foster the erroneous idea that America was the exclusive creation of Europeans and the sons and daughters of Europeans. This propaganda onslaught, which is more overwhelming than convincing, glosses over the extraordinary complexity in the peopling of America, which was founded not by Europeans alone but Europeans, Africans and Indians working together and in opposition in a complicated and counterpoint of interests, dreams and passions. The relative importance of the African factor varied from time to time and place to place, but it was never negligible and it extended over the entire period of settlement. As a matter of fact, Black explorers—servants, slaves and free men—were among the first non-Indian settlers of the land, and there is some evidence that African sailors explored the New World before Columbus. Blacks were with Pizarro in Peru, Cortes in Mexico, Menendez in Florida. They “accompanied DeSoto,” W.E.B. DuBois wrote, “and one of them stayed among the Indians in Alabama and became the first settler from the Old World.” Perhaps the best known of the early Black explorers was Estevanico, who opened up New Mexico and Arizona for the Spaniards.

Later, as we have noted, Black pilgrims preceded the official (White) Pilgrims in the settlement of English America. There were skilled artisans and farmers among the first group of Black immigrants, and there are indications in the record that they were responsible for some innovations later credited to English immigrants. An early example of this was reported in Virginia, where, in 1648, the governor ordered rice planted on the advice of “our Negroes,” who said conditions in Virginia were as favorable to the crop as “in their Country.”

After the introduction of slavery, Blacks played key roles in creating the economic foundations of the country. The strain of slavery was too much for ten of thousands who died of old and new diseases and the shock of psychic mutilation. But millions, testifying to physical and spiritual strength that transcended the heroic, survived. And, surviving, they ensured the survival—and prosperity—of America, which fashioned out of their misery the take-off capital that financed the growth of America in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Not only in slavery but also in freedom, not only in the South but also in the North and West, Black pioneers contributed to the common cause, building schools, constructing roads and blazing new paths into the interior. William Alexander Leidesdorff, for example, played a key role in the founding of San Francisco, and at least 26 of the 44 founders of Los Angeles were descendants of Africans. Nor can we forget Jean Baptiste Pointe Du Sable, who founded the city of Chicago, an event the Indians immortalized in the saying: “The first White man to settle in Checagou was a Black man.”

This happened in more communities than historians care to remember. And it entitles us to say that America, myths notwithstanding, “is an African as well as European invention.”




Whites have more to thank blacks for for the slave work of blacks provided the economic backbone of this country when it was first founded and allowed whites to accumulated and enormous amount of wealth and left blacks already far behind the power curve, Not to mention, black musicians have made white record company owners filthy rich, eventhough whites had nothing to do with the creation of the black musical genres they're getting rich off of. Here are some estimates of the back wages owed Aframs and the amount of wealth whites earned from slavery and segregation:


http://www.ncobra.org/pdffiles/Documenting the Costs Of Slavery.pdf



Labor Stolen under Slavery For some fifteen generations the exploitation and oppression of African Americans have redistributed income and wealth earned by black labor to generations of white Americans, leaving the former relatively impoverished as a group and
the latter relatively privileged as a group. Consider just the value of the African American labor that was expropriated. The white owner's cost for maintaining an enslaved African American was generally very low, and under many circumstances large profits could be generated off the labor of such a subordinated worker (Du Bois 1992 [1935]). Larry
Neal has calculated that the current (1983) value of the slave labor expropriated by whites from 1620 to 1865 ranges from about $1 trillion to as much as $97 trillion, depending on the rate of interest chosen (Swinton 1990: 156). James Marketti has estimated the dollar value of the labor taken from enslaved African Americans from 1790 to 1860 at,
depending on the historical assumptions, from $7 billion to as much as $40 billion. Such a figure roughly indicates what black individuals and families lost in income because they did not control their labor.3 Marketti suggests that, if that stolen income is multiplied by taking
into account lost interest from then to the present, the current (1983) economic loss (income diverted) for black Americans ranges from $2.1 to $4.7 trillion (Marketti 1990: 118).4 Updating these 1983 estimates places the current value of the diverted labor income in the trillions of U.S. dollars.


And segregation/Jim Crow:


Labor Stolen under Segregation After the Civil War, white southerners used terrorism for a few years to win a major goal of that war--the continued oppression of African Americans. Organizing Ku Klux Klan violence and other coercion, whites in all classes worked to deny the newly freed blacks access to land, credit, political power, and
education (see Ransom and Sutch 1981: 150-51). There was much other racial discrimination, and soon legal segregation was established in all southern and some northern states. Significantly, government officials were involved in maintaining racial oppression. Under legal segregation, the economic losses for black Americans were again high. One research study estimated the cost of labor market discrimination for 1929-1969 (in 1983 dollars) at $1.6 trillion (Swinton 1990: 156). Calculating the cost of antiblack discrimination from the end of slavery in 1865 to the year 1969, the end of legal segregation, and putting that calculation into year-2000 dollars would likely increase
that wage-loss estimate to several trillion dollars.


Oh and finally:


William Darity reminds us that what blacks lose whites often gain: "These are pretty good calculations, but they are all made on the assumption that if racial discrimination were eliminated everything else would be much the same. Discrimination appears as a deadweight loss to all Americans. No attention is given to the interdependence
between the incomes of blacks and whites, and the possibility that the incomes of whites are higher because the incomes of blacks are lower" (Darity 1990: 11). Thus, one can see much of these dollar figures as added and undeserved income for white Americans.


Clearly, the sum total of the worth of all the black labor stolen by whites through the means of slavery, segregation, and contemporary discrimination is staggering--many trillions of dollars. The worth of all that labor, taking into account lost interest over time and putting it in today's dollars, is perhaps in the range of $5 to $24 trillion.


Other Economic Costs Labor lost means capital lost, both that directly generated and that which might have otherwise been borrowed. As David Swinton has noted, "Discrimination and racism reduced the historic accumulation [of] capital by blacks and increased accumulation by whites. The resulting disparities in ownership of capital are transmitted intergenerationally. These capital disparities would prevent attainment of racial equality even if current discrimination ended and blacks and whites had identical tastes and preferences"(Swinton 1990: 157).







Yup, there you have it, whites were able to build this great nation and accumulate the wealth and privilege they have[mostly unearned of course] at the expense of discriminating, enslaving and oppressing black people, the lost and stolen wages of blacks is the economic backbone that brought this country into being and largely, but not 100% totally, accounts for the enormous wage and wealth disparity between whites and blacks, not low IQs and black inferiority. Consider those lost and stolen wages ourt contribution to the founding and advancement of this country.
... well, except for all those negros with machine guns, that is..[/QUOTE]

 

[Shogun]

yup.. let's play "spot the ******" on any image depicting the signing of the declaration of Independance. seriously, dude... just because a black man discovered peanut butter doesn't mean that you have anything even REMOTELY close to the impact on the creation of this nation as the white people who actually did create it.

so, again, go take your black ass to africa and create a civil nation... if you can fend off the jungle monkeys with AKs, that is.

 

[Shogun]

ps..


a BLOG by a black dude? CONVINCING!




called.. wait for it..... CHICKEN BONES, no less!

 

[JBeukema]

Plenty in common like creating stable nations for white people *ONLY* nations at the expense of exterminating, killing, raping, mongrelizing, enslaving, stealing land, oppressing and reducing native peoples and peoples of color to second

and you insist that you're not racist?

 

[JBeukema]

Similar, indeed. Looks like they are both a group of peoples capable of creating a stable nation which your black ass enjoys more than the standard issue


Tribal Warfare that is the reality of every other high population of blacks. The only difference between african tribes and the crips and bloods is location and ammo.

Plenty in common like creating stable nations for white people *ONLY* nations at the expense of exterminating, killing, raping, mongrelizing, enslaving, stealing land, oppressing and reducing native peoples and peoples of color to second and third class citizenship and then pretending that the causes that lead to the conditions that these oppressed people live in are their fault, while ignoring the fact that most of what the whites have in both South Africa and America is largely unearned, though you would like people to believe otherwise.

NO ONE is holding you back from making your own negro nation in Africa that rivals the civility of the white nation you enjoy so much..

... well, except for all those negros with machine guns, that is..

Didn't they already try that? They modeled it after White civilization

Liberia has a dual system of statutory law based on Anglo-American common law for the modern sector and customary unwritten law for the native sector for exclusively rural tribes.[17][18] Liberia's modern sector has three equal branches of government in the constitution, though in practice the executive branch headed by the President of Liberia is the strongest of the three. The other two branches are the legislative and judicial.
Following the dissolution of the Republican Party in 1876, the True Whig Party dominated the Liberian government until the 1980 coup.

How was it as of 2006?

Amnesty International summarizes in its Annual Report 2006:
"Sporadic outbreaks of violence continued to threaten prospects of peace. Former rebel fighters who should have been disarmed and demobilized protested violently when they did not receive benefits. Slow progress in reforming the police, judiciary and the criminal justice system resulted in systematic violations of due process and vigilante violence against criminal suspects. Laws establishing an Independent National Commission on Human Rights and a Truth and Reconciliation Commission were adopted. Over 200,000 internally displaced people and refugees returned to their homes, although disputes over land and property appropriated during the war raised ethnic tensions. UN sanctions on the trade in diamonds and timber were renewed. Those responsible for human rights abuses during the armed conflict continued to enjoy impunity. The UN Security Council gave peacekeeping forces in Liberia powers to arrest former President Taylor and transfer him to the Special Court for Sierra Leone if he should return from Nigeria, where he continued to receive asylum. Liberia made a commitment to abolish capital punishment. A new law on rape, which initially proposed imposition of the death penalty for gang rape, was amended to provide a maximum penalty of life imprisonment."[19]

Of course, they have a very strong economy

The Liberia dollar currently trades against the US dollar at a ratio of 65:1. Liberia used the US dollar as its currency from 1943 until 1982. Its external debt ($3.5 billion) is huge compared to its GDP ($2.5 billion/year); it imports approximately $4.839 billion in goods per year, while it exports only about $910 million. I

Liberia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JBeukema]

Why is it, Charlie, that your only sources that you ever site are personal blogs, black planet, and similarly racist sites?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

Why is it, Charlie, that your only sources that you ever site are personal blogs, black planet, and similarly racist sites?

Sure they are , quit your whining you dumb gorilla. The Bass has again laid the smackdown on that ass, none of the sources posted come from racist sites you peckerwood, paleface faggot, now call the Bass a racist,

 

[JBeukema]

This guy can't be for real


Bass, you're a 15-year-old skinhead, aint ya?