While Canada Slept - Excellent read

[Doomer]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/077102276X/qid=1090235049/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9092019-1771169?v=glance&s=books]While Canada Slept : How We Lost Our Place in the World[/ame]

Great book for people on both sides of the border to check out. It talks about how Canada lost its place as the worlds moral voice, and how Canada is still living on a reputation created by accomplishments long past.

I highly recommend this book for Americans as well. It may give you some insight into the current state of Canada.

 

[Annie]

While Canada Slept : How We Lost Our Place in the World

Great book for people on both sides of the border to check out. It talks about how Canada lost its place as the worlds moral voice, and how Canada is still living on a reputation created by accomplishments long past.

I highly recommend this book for Americans as well. It may give you some insight into the current state of Canada.

I read 'the inside flap.' Looks very interesting, I'll consider a purchase or library check out. I don't know how Canada's tax rate compares with ours, but I figure it would be very expensive to have our military and all the social programs you all do. I think that's where your money goes?

 

[Doomer]

I don't think anyone has every expected to have a military as large as yours. Not many countries can achieve that kind of power. Most Canadians, including myself, are fine as a middle power. But our army is grossly underfunded. The whole world saw that when we had to ask the U.S. to transport our army to the middle east becuase we didn't have the means to get them there ourselves. What we need is better funding for the military we currently have (Not with manpower but modern equipment. (there are plans for this which you can find in the Movin' on up thread - But take that with a grain of salt, after all this is the liberal party we're talking about).

to elaborate.

The U.S. spends about 2% of its GDP on the military.

The average that most countries spend, and what is recomended by the U.N. is about 1.5% of the GDP

Canada Spends about 0.7% of it GDP on the military.

These numbers are what was spent in 2002.

I think that just by looking at those figures you can see the problem.

 

[Annie]

Doomer I hear you about both the size of our military and the funding of yours. On our side I'd like to make a point that seems missing to the average citizen, though not their governments. The US military got to the size it did as a direct result of the end of WWII and the Cold War. We were basically forced into defending Europe, fighting in Korea, and checking the Soviets. For that reason, we had to, there was no one else. (Not a slam at Canada, with its relatively small population.)

We didn't set out to be a sole super power, history did that. Seems like it's time for all parties to do their part, especially since like it or not, events seem to be pointing to a long-term world war. Just my take.

 

[Doomer]

I fully agree. My ideal Canadian military would be small highly trained outfits designed for reconnaissance and gorilla tactics. (Something geared towards combating terrorism). As well as a good peacekeeping force.

On the plus side.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1074447019130_34///?hub=World

 

[Annie]

I fully agree. My ideal Canadian military would be small highly trained outfits designed for reconnaissance and gorilla tactics. (Something geared towards combating terrorism). As well as a good peacekeeping force.

On the plus side.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1074447019130_34///?hub=World

I couldn't get the link to open.

 

[Isaac Brock]

I fully agree. My ideal Canadian military would be small highly trained outfits designed for reconnaissance and gorilla tactics. (Something geared towards combating terrorism). As well as a good peacekeeping force.

On the plus side.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1074447019130_34///?hub=World

Exactly! That's something I've always thought as well. Canada can never have a large military, so we don't have have an advanced small military (Think an expanded JSF-2) and then a well equipped peacekeeper branch. This way we can have an asset that would be useful to our allies and keeper our tradition of peacekeeping alive.

Frankly, I think we need to do a massive dump of our cold-war era equipment, maybe even downsize our numbers and bases, but use the resources to fund this new dual-structured military.

 

[Doomer]

I had trouble with the link too. try again in a few minutes. The site seems to be bogged down.

 

[Doomer]

After A few trys I managed to get the link open.

KABUL — Canadian soldiers launched an early-morning raid Sunday on a compound in Kabul, arresting suspected terrorists and seizing drugs, cash and weapons in their first offensive action since arriving in Afghanistan last August.

After quietly surrounding the compound in the city's south end, it took just seconds for the heavily-armed soldiers to scale its three-metre-high, mud-brick walls and rush the buildings inside.

Shouts of "Get down, get down" could be heard from the soldiers as the compound's 49 still-sleepy residents met their uninvited guests.

"Over here, over here," yelled one soldier after discovering several men huddled close to an outhouse in one corner of the filthy courtyard. Guns were pointed, doors smashed open and children sent fleeing into their mothers' arms in what seemed like a frenzy of activity after days of calm preparation.

"This is the type of operation that we train for over and over again back in Canada," said Maj. John Vass, commander of the Royal Canadian Regiment's Parachute Company.

"It was a great feeling for the soldiers. They finally got to do a live-fire raid."

Nearly 200 soldiers, in concert with Kabul police, launched the raid with the hope of capturing some of the city's most notorious drug lords.

Only one shot was fired: a shotgun blast to open a locked door. A second blast would have been heard, had the gun not inexplicably jammed. Where the shotgun failed, the shoulder of a burly infantryman was successful in clearing a passageway.

The only injury was sustained by a soldier who hurt his leg slightly and received a cut to the face when he fell into a deep, open sewer hole in the darkened street outside the compound.

The raid ended with the arrest of 16 men, ranging in age from 16 to 70, who are suspected of participating in the thriving drug trade that fuels terrorist organizations in Afghanistan.

Canadian military officials, citing intelligence sources, linked at least some of the men to Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, founder of the radical Muslim terrorist group Hizb-I Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), an organization with long-established ties to al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.

Two AK-47 assault rifles were seized during the raid, along with several large plastic bags stuffed with unknown quantities of money and drugs.

As the suspects were herded out of a building and lined up against a wall in the centre of the compound, one of the men began shaking and crying.

"What's going on? Am I going to die?" the man asked through an interpreter, his hands held behind him with plastic binding and his head covered by a green plastic-mesh bag.

A Canadian soldier instructed the interpreter to tell the nervous suspect and the others to remain calm, adding that they wouldn't be harmed if they did what they were told.

Until now, British soldiers have been the only international forces directly targeting terrorists and drug operations in Kabul.

That all changed with "Operation Tsunami," said Lt.-Col. Don Denne, the commanding officer at Canadian Forces' Camp Julien, who was in constant radio contact with front-line soldiers during the raid.

"If there's one message that will be hoisted in by any criminal element ... it's going to be that there's more than just one player in town," Denne said afterward.

"We're now playing."

As the operation was completed, seven confused-looking children who appeared to range in age from about two to 12 were allowed to leave the centre building, shivering as they walked barefoot across the muddy, feces-covered courtyard to the corner outhouse.

The suspects were taken away, transported in Canadian Forces light armoured vehicles to be interrogated at a police station about two kilometres away.

Later, several of the men were turned over to investigators at Camp Julien, the largest Canadian Forces base in Afghanistan, where nearly 2,000 soldiers are housed as part of the International Security Assistance Force, or ISAF.

"This will go a long way to assisting the Kabul city police in gaining the confidence of the local population," predicted Vass, the Parachute Company commander.

"They were also a key player and were also responsible for taking down a possible drug node (operation) or a possible terrorist."

 

[Annie]

Canada, good show! Thanks for the read! BTW my dad said during WWII, the GI's were always glad if Canadian or Australian troops were working with them.

 

[NightTrain]

Canada, good show! Thanks for the read! BTW my dad said during WWII, the GI's were always glad if Canadian or Australian troops were working with them.

Yep. My Grandfather had the same opinion, he ranked the Canadians & Aussies highly for their courage in battle.

 

[dilloduck]

Dittos here----in spite of the country bashing, the troops are fighting the same war. One can hardly expect Canada to match us troop for troop and I'm sure the American GIs are appreciative of the bravery of the Canadians.

 

[freeandfun1]

I Also agree, having done my army reserves basic training (Canadian Grenadier Guards, infantry) for 4 months between college and university, I was shocked at the old Weber transport trucks that they still used, or the compromises in weapons we trained with (we didn't get to launch M-72 rockets due to cut backs) but we did practice with dummies (lol). They also had this 4-speed mini-jeep... the training however was very harsh IMO, leopard crawl through thorns and poison Ivy... what's that word... "tantamous" to torture...The one thing our section commanders repeated was that our army was always well disciplined. It's like saying "she has a good personality" when she is ugly...

To sum it up, training is good, but the equipment sucks. The Canadian army can only conquer a small developing country. Or it should just keep peace keeping. Or Canadian troops should work with US weapons ...

Canada's support for the Afghan war was political. Especially when we sent an impotent battle ship to protect a US aircraft carrier (LOLOL) the articles glorified the Candian Army...

Here is a pic of HMSC Vancouver the ship that "protected" US aircraft Carriers in the Afghan war...and no it's not a fishing boat. (please note, It's apparently high tech and can take out submarines..but the looks tell a different story)

http://www.navy.dnd.ca/mspa_images/ship_site_images/ship_gallery/331/images/Apollo/ETD01-0363-08.jpg

it is funny though. Canada exports an exponential amount of military technology even though they don't use it themselves. I know this as fact, as many Canadian companies directly compete with the companies I represent. They are able to kill us financially in our bidding though as the Canadian government subsidizes a lot of high-tech industries.