While Blame is Going Around...

[Care4all]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners
{Photo: Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act]
Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act.

WASHINGTON - There is a reason why many American families can't buy their first home - they can't afford the downpayment and other upfront closing costs required to qualify for a mortgage. For as many as 40,000 low-income families, that will change as President Bush today signed The American Dream Downpayment Act into law.

Applauding Congress for authorizing the annual $200 million downpayment assistance program, Bush and Housing and Urban Development Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson said the initiative will also help meet the Administration's "Homeownership Challenge" to increase minority homeownership by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade.

"Today we are taking action to bring many thousands of Americans closer to the great goal of owning a home," said President Bush. "These funds will help American families achieve their goals, strengthen our communities, and our entire nation."

"This is a good day for thousands of families who have only dreamed about sharing in the American Dream of homeownership," said Jackson. "Not only will this law allow thousands of hard-working Americans to unlock the door to homeownership, it will also help close the gap that separates minority households from the rest of the country when it comes to owning a home to call their own."

High downpayment and closing costs represent the most significant barrier to homeownership for first-time homebuyers. The American Dream Downpayment Act will provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever is greater. In addition, the Bush Administration is committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan, further stimulating homeownership for all Americans.

The American Dream Downpayment Act will be administered under HUD's HOME Investment Partnerships Program (HOME). Since its inception, the HOME Program has played a vital role in addressing the shortages of affordable rental housing and homeownership in communities nationwide. Information about the American Dream Downpayment Act is available on the Internet.

Last year HUD released a report that concludes adding 5.5 million minority homeowners will stimulate an additional $256 billion in benefits to the housing sector of the U.S. economy. In addition, HUD created The Blueprint for the American Dream Partnership, a coalition involving every segment of the housing industry to build broad-based support of the President's goal of increasing homeownership opportunities for minority families.

HUD is the nation's housing agency committed to increasing homeownership, particularly among minorities; creating affordable housing opportunities for low-income Americans; and, supporting the homeless, elderly, people with disabilities and people living with AIDS. The Department also promotes economic and community development as well as enforces the nation's fair housing laws. More information about HUD and its programs is available on the Internet at Homes and Communities - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and espanol.hud.gov.

 

[txlonghorn]

Well, I think there is a difference between assistance with a down payment and closing costs versus pressure to approve bogus loans. What we are doing now is providing BILLIONS, not millions, to cover a very poor plan set in motion long before Bush got in office.

My question is, when will "Bush's Watch" end and the "Obama Nation" begin to be scrutinized and held accountable? I wouldn't be surprised if we are still trying to lynch ol' George in 2012. The new era of change is upon us and we had better hold him to his promises and not let him whine his way through four years of failure, because the job was to hard...yeah...it's a mess. But by God, if you can't hit the nail on the head and drive it home, then don't pick up the hammer!

 

[Zoomie1980]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners
{Photo: Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act]
Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act.

WASHINGTON - There is a reason why many American families can't buy their first home - they can't afford the downpayment and other upfront closing costs required to qualify for a mortgage. For as many as 40,000 low-income families, that will change as President Bush today signed The American Dream Downpayment Act into law.

Applauding Congress for authorizing the annual $200 million downpayment assistance program, Bush and Housing and Urban Development Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson said the initiative will also help meet the Administration's "Homeownership Challenge" to increase minority homeownership by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade.

"Today we are taking action to bring many thousands of Americans closer to the great goal of owning a home," said President Bush. "These funds will help American families achieve their goals, strengthen our communities, and our entire nation."

"This is a good day for thousands of families who have only dreamed about sharing in the American Dream of homeownership," said Jackson. "Not only will this law allow thousands of hard-working Americans to unlock the door to homeownership, it will also help close the gap that separates minority households from the rest of the country when it comes to owning a home to call their own."

High downpayment and closing costs represent the most significant barrier to homeownership for first-time homebuyers. The American Dream Downpayment Act will provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever is greater. In addition, the Bush Administration is committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan, further stimulating homeownership for all Americans.

The American Dream Downpayment Act will be administered under HUD's HOME Investment Partnerships Program (HOME). Since its inception, the HOME Program has played a vital role in addressing the shortages of affordable rental housing and homeownership in communities nationwide. Information about the American Dream Downpayment Act is available on the Internet.

Last year HUD released a report that concludes adding 5.5 million minority homeowners will stimulate an additional $256 billion in benefits to the housing sector of the U.S. economy. In addition, HUD created The Blueprint for the American Dream Partnership, a coalition involving every segment of the housing industry to build broad-based support of the President's goal of increasing homeownership opportunities for minority families.

HUD is the nation's housing agency committed to increasing homeownership, particularly among minorities; creating affordable housing opportunities for low-income Americans; and, supporting the homeless, elderly, people with disabilities and people living with AIDS. The Department also promotes economic and community development as well as enforces the nation's fair housing laws. More information about HUD and its programs is available on the Internet at Homes and Communities - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and espanol.hud.gov.

Had NOTHING to do with it. The percentage of the dollar amount bad mortgages that are loans to low income borrowers is something like 3%. Most of these bad loans went to affluent house-flippers in the Sun Belt in the form of "Jumbo" loans (over $500,000 for 2nd, 3rd, 4th..up to 20 or more homes), most loaned at 125% of appraised value on the bet that within a couple of years the home would exceed the mortgage balance.

THAT is what caused all this. An asset bubble that had nothing to with low income borrowers.

 

[Care4all]

Well, I think there is a difference between assistance with a down payment and closing costs versus pressure to approve bogus loans. What we are doing now is providing BILLIONS, not millions, to cover a very poor plan set in motion long before Bush got in office.

My question is, when will "Bush's Watch" end and the "Obama Nation" begin to be scrutinized and held accountable? I wouldn't be surprised if we are still trying to lynch ol' George in 2012. The new era of change is upon us and we had better hold him to his promises and not let him whine his way through four years of failure, because the job was to hard...yeah...it's a mess. But by God, if you can't hit the nail on the head and drive it home, then don't pick up the hammer!

i dunno, do you think 6 weeks is long enough?

9 months in to the Bush presidency and it still wasn't his responsibility for the 9/11 terror attack, if memory serves me....?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners
{Photo: Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act]
Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act.

WASHINGTON - There is a reason why many American families can't buy their first home - they can't afford the downpayment and other upfront closing costs required to qualify for a mortgage. For as many as 40,000 low-income families, that will change as President Bush today signed The American Dream Downpayment Act into law.

Applauding Congress for authorizing the annual $200 million downpayment assistance program, Bush and Housing and Urban Development Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson said the initiative will also help meet the Administration's "Homeownership Challenge" to increase minority homeownership by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade.

"Today we are taking action to bring many thousands of Americans closer to the great goal of owning a home," said President Bush. "These funds will help American families achieve their goals, strengthen our communities, and our entire nation."

"This is a good day for thousands of families who have only dreamed about sharing in the American Dream of homeownership," said Jackson. "Not only will this law allow thousands of hard-working Americans to unlock the door to homeownership, it will also help close the gap that separates minority households from the rest of the country when it comes to owning a home to call their own."

High downpayment and closing costs represent the most significant barrier to homeownership for first-time homebuyers. The American Dream Downpayment Act will provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever is greater. In addition, the Bush Administration is committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan, further stimulating homeownership for all Americans.

The American Dream Downpayment Act will be administered under HUD's HOME Investment Partnerships Program (HOME). Since its inception, the HOME Program has played a vital role in addressing the shortages of affordable rental housing and homeownership in communities nationwide. Information about the American Dream Downpayment Act is available on the Internet.

Last year HUD released a report that concludes adding 5.5 million minority homeowners will stimulate an additional $256 billion in benefits to the housing sector of the U.S. economy. In addition, HUD created The Blueprint for the American Dream Partnership, a coalition involving every segment of the housing industry to build broad-based support of the President's goal of increasing homeownership opportunities for minority families.

HUD is the nation's housing agency committed to increasing homeownership, particularly among minorities; creating affordable housing opportunities for low-income Americans; and, supporting the homeless, elderly, people with disabilities and people living with AIDS. The Department also promotes economic and community development as well as enforces the nation's fair housing laws. More information about HUD and its programs is available on the Internet at Homes and Communities - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and espanol.hud.gov.

None of this is relevant to the financial crisis. The market for derivatives dried up in 2006 after the Fed raised interest rates and as mortgage rates increased, the demand for houses fell and prices with it. Falling real estate prices made investors wary about the derivatives and as the market dried up the mark to market price of the derivatives fell to about 20% of their long term value. Because banks had been allowed to use them for their legal reserves, as much as 80% of these reserves vanished.

That the number of "bad" mortgages is not that significant is clear from the fact that the long term value of the derivatives is still largely intact. However, the banks had to withdraw cash that had been available to loan to cover their shrinking reserves and that produced a credit squeeze and about a year later that shortage of credit put us into this current recession. As people lose their jobs in the recession, more defaults and foreclosures will follow, and if this goes on long enough, the derivatives will eventually lose more of their long term value.

 

[jeffrockit]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

No conservatives know it started much earlier than that; like Carter's administration and the Community Reinvestment Act.

 

[Care4all]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

No conservatives know it started much earlier than that; like Carter's administration and the Community Reinvestment Act

.

so you don't agree with president bush 1 or president Bush 2 or Reagan or clinton or all of the presidents that have supported such programs to put more minorities in to an ownership society by getting them to own their homes?

Let me ask you, if this program was the problem and it has been around since carter...what changed so drastically to turn it in to this mortgage meltdown crisis? What was different now vs 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 30 years ago....?

 

[Care4all]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?

Personally, I believe it was a good initiative and one that most all of our presidents have had, to put more minorities in to home ownership.

None of this made the banks do what they did...buy up loans from fly by night brokers that loaned to anybody, without even trying to meet any type of qualifications....and then hid the risks of these loans by putting them in to MBSecurities, which they sold off at good prices, because the paid by the same banks ratings agency rated them with a AAA rating, a safe secure rating....?

But if Conservatives believe Fannie's charter to put more lower to middle income people in to homes was the cause of this mess, then why wouldn't Bush's home ownership initiative be?

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners
{Photo: Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act]
Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson makes some remarks just before President Bush signed the American Dream Downpayment Act.

WASHINGTON - There is a reason why many American families can't buy their first home - they can't afford the downpayment and other upfront closing costs required to qualify for a mortgage. For as many as 40,000 low-income families, that will change as President Bush today signed The American Dream Downpayment Act into law.

Applauding Congress for authorizing the annual $200 million downpayment assistance program, Bush and Housing and Urban Development Acting Secretary Alphonso Jackson said the initiative will also help meet the Administration's "Homeownership Challenge" to increase minority homeownership by 5.5 million families by the end of the decade.

"Today we are taking action to bring many thousands of Americans closer to the great goal of owning a home," said President Bush. "These funds will help American families achieve their goals, strengthen our communities, and our entire nation."

"This is a good day for thousands of families who have only dreamed about sharing in the American Dream of homeownership," said Jackson. "Not only will this law allow thousands of hard-working Americans to unlock the door to homeownership, it will also help close the gap that separates minority households from the rest of the country when it comes to owning a home to call their own."

High downpayment and closing costs represent the most significant barrier to homeownership for first-time homebuyers. The American Dream Downpayment Act will provide a maximum downpayment assistance grant of either $10,000 or six percent of the purchase price of the home, whichever is greater. In addition, the Bush Administration is committed to reforming the homebuying process that would lower closing costs by approximately $700 per loan, further stimulating homeownership for all Americans.

The American Dream Downpayment Act will be administered under HUD's HOME Investment Partnerships Program (HOME). Since its inception, the HOME Program has played a vital role in addressing the shortages of affordable rental housing and homeownership in communities nationwide. Information about the American Dream Downpayment Act is available on the Internet.

Last year HUD released a report that concludes adding 5.5 million minority homeowners will stimulate an additional $256 billion in benefits to the housing sector of the U.S. economy. In addition, HUD created The Blueprint for the American Dream Partnership, a coalition involving every segment of the housing industry to build broad-based support of the President's goal of increasing homeownership opportunities for minority families.

HUD is the nation's housing agency committed to increasing homeownership, particularly among minorities; creating affordable housing opportunities for low-income Americans; and, supporting the homeless, elderly, people with disabilities and people living with AIDS. The Department also promotes economic and community development as well as enforces the nation's fair housing laws. More information about HUD and its programs is available on the Internet at Homes and Communities - U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and espanol.hud.gov.

None of this is relevant to the financial crisis. The market for derivatives dried up in 2006 after the Fed raised interest rates and as mortgage rates increased, the demand for houses fell and prices with it. Falling real estate prices made investors wary about the derivatives and as the market dried up the mark to market price of the derivatives fell to about 20% of their long term value. Because banks had been allowed to use them for their legal reserves, as much as 80% of these reserves vanished.

That the number of "bad" mortgages is not that significant is clear from the fact that the long term value of the derivatives is still largely intact. However, the banks had to withdraw cash that had been available to loan to cover their shrinking reserves and that produced a credit squeeze and about a year later that shortage of credit put us into this current recession. As people lose their jobs in the recession, more defaults and foreclosures will follow, and if this goes on long enough, the derivatives will eventually lose more of their long term value.

I never thought it was to blame, i was just asking conservatives since they are blaming Clinton's home ownership initiative for this mess and CRA.

 

[txlonghorn]

Wait...you want to BLAME Bush for a terrorist attack? Seriously? How can you blame Bush for that? How is that ANYBODY'S fault? Can't say it would have happened if we had been stronger and more assertive in previous years, but I don't see how you can finger anybody for that one.

Bush was no saint...don't misunderstand my position on that. I just think it's pretty funny that ANY poor decisions that this president makes are going to get swept under the "BUSH'S FAULT" rug. We need a president who can take the heat or get the hell outa the kitchen, 'cause he's walkin' into a blazin hot hell hole of a mess that requires some serious calm cool and collected action. Right now, all I see is a bunch of running around in circles and pointing fingers at everybody else. And in the process, some really bad calls are being made on how to put this fire out. Like, putting the arsonist in charge of the waterhose! Some of these appointments are down right laughable. Whatever happened to "NO LOBBYISTS IN MY CABINET"? What about "OLD POLITICS WILL NOT STAND IN MY ADMINISTRATION".

So we get the same old liberal faces...and BINGO!!! A bonus!!! Several with tax issues! How great is that!!! He even managed to find somebody to head up the Tax Commission who had a few "mistakes" of his own in his taxes. Thank GOD he "agreed" to pay them! I agree to pay mine EVERY year. Not just the years that I'm appointed to a cabinet position.

 

[jeffrockit]

No, I agree they should have the opportunities with the caveat that the same rules apply to all...If you are approved (have the income to make monthly house payments plus insurance and taxes), you should qualify for the loan. Not everyone is or should be a homeowner. By making the numbers work on paper because someone falls into a minority or low income class helps no one and it actually, in the long run hurts many more than the original buyer. I am currently in my 4th house and understood at each closing that, if I did not make my payments on time as per the contract, I would lose the house. That is really not a hard contract to understand.

 

[Care4all]

No, I agree they should have the opportunities with the caveat that the same rules apply to all...If you are approved (have the income to make monthly house payments plus insurance and taxes), you should qualify for the loan. Not everyone is or should be a homeowner. By making the numbers work on paper because someone falls into a minority or low income class helps no one and it actually, in the long run hurts many more than the original buyer. I am currently in my 4th house and understood at each closing that, if I did not make my payments on time as per the contract, I would lose the house. That is really not a hard contract to understand.

no its not a hard contract to understand, on a conventional mortgage...

poor people can afford homes, they just buy cheaper homes....and there is nothing wrong with such and it is a good goal....home ownership brings an ownership society if done right and it reduces crime and brings wealth.

banks have been doing subprime 30 year fixed mortgages for decades...the riskier buyer just had to pay a higher interest rate for their loan if they qualified.

what happened in this mess, is qualifications were thrown out the door by mortgage brokers, loans were created that required no proof of income or assets, that charged no interest or a low teaser interest for the first couple of years, that added this missed interest to the back side of these loans, making their borrowed amount to grow, they were told that they could refinance down the road in to a conventional fixed rate mortgage, because they would have enough equity in their homes to qualify for that conventional mortgage, and all kinds of confusing crap went on with these risky loans...i'm not even certain i would have understood it....!!!

care

 

[Care4all]

Wait...you want to BLAME Bush for a terrorist attack? Seriously? How can you blame Bush for that? How is that ANYBODY'S fault? Can't say it would have happened if we had been stronger and more assertive in previous years, but I don't see how you can finger anybody for that one.

Bush was no saint...don't misunderstand my position on that. I just think it's pretty funny that ANY poor decisions that this president makes are going to get swept under the "BUSH'S FAULT" rug. We need a president who can take the heat or get the hell outa the kitchen, 'cause he's walkin' into a blazin hot hell hole of a mess that requires some serious calm cool and collected action. Right now, all I see is a bunch of running around in circles and pointing fingers at everybody else. And in the process, some really bad calls are being made on how to put this fire out. Like, putting the arsonist in charge of the waterhose! Some of these appointments are down right laughable. Whatever happened to "NO LOBBYISTS IN MY CABINET"? What about "OLD POLITICS WILL NOT STAND IN MY ADMINISTRATION".

So we get the same old liberal faces...and BINGO!!! A bonus!!! Several with tax issues! How great is that!!! He even managed to find somebody to head up the Tax Commission who had a few "mistakes" of his own in his taxes. Thank GOD he "agreed" to pay them! I agree to pay mine EVERY year. Not just the years that I'm appointed to a cabinet position.

no, i don't want to blame the bush administration solely, for the terrorist attack.

i was being sarcastic...to your post, that seemed as though you were blaming this entire mess that we are in as a country on a man that has been in office for 6 weeks....i was just trying to point out how foolish that seemed to me.

I did not vote for Obama, but i clearly know he did not cause this major crisis we are in as a country....

I am not too pleased with the Wall Street guys he brought on his team that come from the same team that was there when Bush was in office...

I can live with his other pics...for now!

Care

 

[Zoomie1980]

No, I agree they should have the opportunities with the caveat that the same rules apply to all...If you are approved (have the income to make monthly house payments plus insurance and taxes), you should qualify for the loan. Not everyone is or should be a homeowner. By making the numbers work on paper because someone falls into a minority or low income class helps no one and it actually, in the long run hurts many more than the original buyer. I am currently in my 4th house and understood at each closing that, if I did not make my payments on time as per the contract, I would lose the house. That is really not a hard contract to understand.

The assumption here is that it is some kind of social program to move minorities and low income people into home ownership that led to this meltdown. That is simply false and not even close to true. The bad mortgages that flooded the market were mostly $500,000+ properties bought as INVESTMENT properties, mostly in the Sun Belt and resort areas, by people trying to make money flipping high-end properties! And in turn, these mortgages being packaged into investment vehicles (derivatives) and traded as commodities in securities markets.

This crisis is essentially the rich (or wannabe rich) rolling the dice, and then an entire planet of idiot investors playing along, and the dice coming up short. Has NOTHING to do with low income minorities getting into houses due to well-meaning social legislation.

 

[jeffrockit]

No, I agree they should have the opportunities with the caveat that the same rules apply to all...If you are approved (have the income to make monthly house payments plus insurance and taxes), you should qualify for the loan. Not everyone is or should be a homeowner. By making the numbers work on paper because someone falls into a minority or low income class helps no one and it actually, in the long run hurts many more than the original buyer. I am currently in my 4th house and understood at each closing that, if I did not make my payments on time as per the contract, I would lose the house. That is really not a hard contract to understand.

The assumption here is that it is some kind of social program to move minorities and low income people into home ownership that led to this meltdown. That is simply false and not even close to true. The bad mortgages that flooded the market were mostly $500,000+ properties bought as INVESTMENT properties, mostly in the Sun Belt and resort areas, by people trying to make money flipping high-end properties! And in turn, these mortgages being packaged into investment vehicles (derivatives) and traded as commodities in securities markets.

This crisis is essentially the rich (or wannabe rich) rolling the dice, and then an entire planet of idiot investors playing along, and the dice coming up short. Has NOTHING to do with low income minorities getting into houses due to well-meaning social legislation.

There is no way you can believe that it "had nothing to do with low income and minorities".
While I admit your take on it might have merit, you should be able to see that the Community Reinvestment Act was not for the rich. The majority of the people I see in the reported on that are being foreclosed do not appear to be rich. They are losing their only place of residence from what I have seen and researched.

These predatory lenders cropped up because they were aware of the pressures on banks to give loans to less than qualified people because of.....(liberals favorite word) "FAIRNESS". Who is it fair to now?

 

[Sinatra]

No, I agree they should have the opportunities with the caveat that the same rules apply to all...If you are approved (have the income to make monthly house payments plus insurance and taxes), you should qualify for the loan. Not everyone is or should be a homeowner. By making the numbers work on paper because someone falls into a minority or low income class helps no one and it actually, in the long run hurts many more than the original buyer. I am currently in my 4th house and understood at each closing that, if I did not make my payments on time as per the contract, I would lose the house. That is really not a hard contract to understand.

The assumption here is that it is some kind of social program to move minorities and low income people into home ownership that led to this meltdown. That is simply false and not even close to true. The bad mortgages that flooded the market were mostly $500,000+ properties bought as INVESTMENT properties, mostly in the Sun Belt and resort areas, by people trying to make money flipping high-end properties! And in turn, these mortgages being packaged into investment vehicles (derivatives) and traded as commodities in securities markets.

This crisis is essentially the rich (or wannabe rich) rolling the dice, and then an entire planet of idiot investors playing along, and the dice coming up short. Has NOTHING to do with low income minorities getting into houses due to well-meaning social legislation.

There is no way you can believe that it "had nothing to do with low income and minorities".
While I admit your take on it might have merit, you should be able to see that the Community Reinvestment Act was not for the rich. The majority of the people I see in the reported on that are being foreclosed do not appear to be rich. They are losing their only place of residence from what I have seen and researched.

These predatory lenders cropped up because they were aware of the pressures on banks to give loans to less than qualified people because of.....(liberals favorite word) "FAIRNESS". Who is it fair to now?

Well said - and very much in line with fact.

 

[xsited1]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?
...

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners...

A $200 million program? The next budget is $3.6 trillion. That's less than 0.01% of the yearly budget of the government. Did you post this as a joke?

 

[txlonghorn]

No...I don't think this is meant as a joke at all. There are people who actually feel this is a relavent point of comparison. CALL ME CRAZY!!! It really is a little strange isn't it? I could understand if this 200 million was filled with earmarks and only went to people who couldn't get loans. But it was designed to help those who could qualify for the loan but didn't have the means to put down any money.

 

[xsited1]

No...I don't think this is meant as a joke at all. There are people who actually feel this is a relavent point of comparison. CALL ME CRAZY!!! It really is a little strange isn't it? I could understand if this 200 million was filled with earmarks and only went to people who couldn't get loans. But it was designed to help those who could qualify for the loan but didn't have the means to put down any money.

She also asked Conservatives about it. I seriously doubt there are many conservatives who say that George W. Bush is a conservative. Care has also posted things like "the most conservative in nature states receive the most government welfare and earmarks" which is either a complete misunderstanding or a joke. I seriously thought she might be joking, but I guess she'll have to tell me.

 

[Care4all]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?
...

HUD No. 03-140
Brian Sullivan
(202) 708-0685 x7527
HUD Newsroom
For Release
Tuesday
December 16, 2003

----------
BUSH SIGNS AMERICAN DREAM DOWNPAYMENT ACT
$200 million program will help tens of thousands of low-income families to become homeowners...

A $200 million program? The next budget is $3.6 trillion. That's less than 0.01% of the yearly budget of the government. Did you post this as a joke?

this was just help in a down payment for 10's of thousands of low income families, he also had several other funded programs...one for the disabled low income to get in to homes etc...the goal was 5.5 million more low and middle income people in to homes by 2010.

i know president bush's initiatives on low income home ownership did not cause this mess, just as i know the CRA did not cause this mess....because less than 6% of the subprime loans were issued in CRA covered areas....94% of the loans were not for mortgages and homes in CRA low income, depressed communities....which are the communities where the CRA regulations come in to play.

Ed MCMann lost his house for goodness sakes....alot of this foreclosure mess is for very expensive homes, a half a million and higher in places like california....

would a bank really loan out a half a million to someone they knew made 20k a year without bells going off galore?

i also know that fannie accounted for 72% of the mortgaged back securities that were bundle back in 2002/03, and these were SAFE loans bundled together, conventional mortgages, primarily and the private sector of banks, not GSE's like fannie/freddie....accounted for only 27% of them....

but by 2006 the private banks and financial institutions were producing 56% of the MBS business and selling them off to others.....only they used alot of subprime mortgages in their mbs's making them risky/toxic, but no one knew it, that were buying them....because the ratings agencies rated them as triple AAA Securities....only later to find out, that these ratings agencies were paid by the very banks bundling the mortgages together....a real mess, because all of our 401 k's, mutual funds and retirement and pension funds invested in these MBS's because they were given these triple A ratings....

All of this X. is very critical in this mess...

plus, thes new mortgage companies were very small in the beginning, and went to these private banks for their financing and these private banks funded them, with no CRA requirements....i saw this in a documentary on this.... then these mortgage broker companies grew bigger and bigger by loosening their requirements year after year, the banks could not buy enough of these company's loans.....the banks were begging these fly by night mortgage companies to issue as many loans as they could....the banks even helped these companies to devise rotten loans to get more people in to them....

the bank execs should be flogged in public for what they did!

care

 

[Sinatra]

Do Conservatives believe President Bush's Home ownership challenge/initiative to put more minorities in to homes fueled any of this mess?
...

A $200 million program? The next budget is $3.6 trillion. That's less than 0.01% of the yearly budget of the government. Did you post this as a joke?

this was just help in a down payment for 10's of thousands of low income families, he also had several other funded programs...one for the disabled low income to get in to homes etc...the goal was 5.5 million more low and middle income people in to homes by 2010.

i know president bush's initiatives on low income home ownership did not cause this mess, just as i know the CRA did not cause this mess....because less than 6% of the subprime loans were issued in CRA covered areas....94% of the loans were not for mortgages and homes in CRA low income, depressed communities....which are the communities where the CRA regulations come in to play.

Ed MCMann lost his house for goodness sakes....alot of this foreclosure mess is for very expensive homes, a half a million and higher in places like california....

would a bank really loan out a half a million to someone they knew made 20k a year without bells going off galore?

i also know that fannie accounted for 72% of the mortgaged back securities that were bundle back in 2002/03, and these were SAFE loans bundled together, conventional mortgages, primarily and the private sector of banks, not GSE's like fannie/freddie....accounted for only 27% of them....

but by 2006 the private banks and financial institutions were producing 56% of the MBS business and selling them off to others.....only they used alot of subprime mortgages in their mbs's making them risky/toxic, but no one knew it, that were buying them....because the ratings agencies rated them as triple AAA Securities....only later to find out, that these ratings agencies were paid by the very banks bundling the mortgages together....a real mess, because all of our 401 k's, mutual funds and retirement and pension funds invested in these MBS's because they were given these triple A ratings....

All of this X. is very critical in this mess...

plus, thes new mortgage companies were very small in the beginning, and went to these private banks for their financing and these private banks funded them, with no CRA requirements....i saw this in a documentary on this.... then these mortgage broker companies grew bigger and bigger by loosening their requirements year after year, the banks could not buy enough of these company's loans.....the banks were begging these fly by night mortgage companies to issue as many loans as they could....the banks even helped these companies to devise rotten loans to get more people in to them....

the bank execs should be flogged in public for what they did!

care

Good God man...