Which was a better Western........Gunsmoke or Bonanza?

[jon_berzerk]

Don't get me wrong, I like many of the old westerns, Jimmy Stewart was always one of my favorites though there was little to nothing historically correct about any of his westerns. Same with John Wayne though a few of his were fairly historically correct primarily in terms of clothing, weapons, etc.

one of my all time favorite lines is from

the good the bad and the ugly

eastwood says "you see in this world there are 2 kinds of people my friend those with loaded guns and those who dig - you dig"

--LOL

I think I watched about ten minutes of that movie and bits and pieces when someone else was watching it and I walked through the living room like last week when my wife of all people was kinda sorta watching it. For her I think it was more background noise as she played on her laptop, I was in my office watching something else on my computer.

whenever the family is together and it gets to some tv time

we all pretty much settle for an old western

i like some of the new ones also

the 3:10 to Yuma is really good

the salvation is another one

Most of the early westerns (50s, 60s and 70s) were Hollywood's version of the dime novel. Since I'm a historian and a living historian to boot the biggest issue for me is historical accuracy. Granted though I definitely like many historically incorrect movies I still look for details and most movies supposedly based on historical events fall short in many areas. Since it's Hollywood I expect it so I'm not disappointed when they "Hollywood" a story so look at it for the entertainment value, conversely I'm pleasantly surprised when they get it mostly correct.
Nowadays I find it amusing to see a western that is supposedly late 1860s, early 1870s and everyone is running around in jeans, modern cowboy boots, modern cowboy hats, 1894 Winchesters and M1873s revolvers (Peacemakers), modern (1930s style) holsters, etc.
Even those movies that are set in the 1880s everyone has Winchesters and Peacemakers......... not.....

Face it
Most of the "real west" was kind of boring

Hard work, isolation, disease, early death

and stinky too

 

[Ringel05]

one of my all time favorite lines is from

the good the bad and the ugly

eastwood says "you see in this world there are 2 kinds of people my friend those with loaded guns and those who dig - you dig"

--LOL

I think I watched about ten minutes of that movie and bits and pieces when someone else was watching it and I walked through the living room like last week when my wife of all people was kinda sorta watching it. For her I think it was more background noise as she played on her laptop, I was in my office watching something else on my computer.

whenever the family is together and it gets to some tv time

we all pretty much settle for an old western

i like some of the new ones also

the 3:10 to Yuma is really good

the salvation is another one

Most of the early westerns (50s, 60s and 70s) were Hollywood's version of the dime novel. Since I'm a historian and a living historian to boot the biggest issue for me is historical accuracy. Granted though I definitely like many historically incorrect movies I still look for details and most movies supposedly based on historical events fall short in many areas. Since it's Hollywood I expect it so I'm not disappointed when they "Hollywood" a story so look at it for the entertainment value, conversely I'm pleasantly surprised when they get it mostly correct.
Nowadays I find it amusing to see a western that is supposedly late 1860s, early 1870s and everyone is running around in jeans, modern cowboy boots, modern cowboy hats, 1894 Winchesters and M1873s revolvers (Peacemakers), modern (1930s style) holsters, etc.
Even those movies that are set in the 1880s everyone has Winchesters and Peacemakers......... not.....

There is a scene in High Noon, where they failed to edit out a telephone pole.

yeah there is a radio tower in dances with wolves also

--LOL

Indian smoke tower.......

 

[Vandalshandle]

The cowboy era only lasted from about 1865 to 1890, and even that was a stretch, since most of the work that was going on was to drive the cattle to the rail heads, and that got shorter every year. Barbed wire, of course, finished the whole era off. Still, there were some mining towns that were pretty damned rough. I live not far from Tombstone, and the warfare between the cattle people (mostly rustling cattle from Mexico) and the miners, was very real. There are very few people buried in boot Hill who died from natural causes.

 

[Ringel05]

The cowboy era only lasted from about 1865 to 1890, and even that was a stretch, since most of the work that was going on was to drive the cattle to the rail heads, and that got shorter every year. Barbed wire, of course, finished the whole era off. Still, there were some mining towns that were pretty damned rough. I live not far from Tombstone, and the warfare between the cattle people (mostly rustling cattle from Mexico) and the miners, was very real. There are very few people buried in boot Hill who died from natural causes.

Historians list the official dates from 1868 to 1888 and most people out west weren't cow boys (the original derogatory reference), miners and settlers made up the majority of people who moved westward. The Earps were not necessarily the heroes they have been made out to be nor the Cowboys the complete villains they are portrayed as. It's pretty much the same with the Lincoln County War (Billy the Kid).

 

[Vandalshandle]

Another trivia piece from High Noon. Gary Cooper was suffering from a stomach ulcer when that film was made, and about ever other scene they had to redo because he could not stop from letting out a loud "burp" when delivering his lines.

Speaking of which, John Wayne had one hellofatime filming Rio Bravo, because they had removed one of his lungs from cancer, and he had a lot of action shots. They were all very short in duration, because they were feeding him oxygen between every take.

 

[rightwinger]

The cowboy era only lasted from about 1865 to 1890, and even that was a stretch, since most of the work that was going on was to drive the cattle to the rail heads, and that got shorter every year. Barbed wire, of course, finished the whole era off. Still, there were some mining towns that were pretty damned rough. I live not far from Tombstone, and the warfare between the cattle people (mostly rustling cattle from Mexico) and the miners, was very real. There are very few people buried in boot Hill who died from natural causes.

Spent a lot of time in the Ft Huachuca area.
A lot of history...some even ancient

 

[Ringel05]

The cowboy era only lasted from about 1865 to 1890, and even that was a stretch, since most of the work that was going on was to drive the cattle to the rail heads, and that got shorter every year. Barbed wire, of course, finished the whole era off. Still, there were some mining towns that were pretty damned rough. I live not far from Tombstone, and the warfare between the cattle people (mostly rustling cattle from Mexico) and the miners, was very real. There are very few people buried in boot Hill who died from natural causes.

Spent a lot of time in the Ft Huachuca area.
A lot of history...some even ancient

You were just down the road from Tombstone, we're a little over 4 hours east. Lincoln NM is just under 3 hours north, been there a few times, it's close to Fort Stanton where we currently do living histories. There's old abandoned forts all over New Mexico some of which might have an adobe wall or two still remaining.

 

[Yarddog]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

Yeah the whole HOP Sing routine was pretty bad

 

[Yarddog]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

I liked the KUNG FU series with Carradine as a western as well, though it would have been cool if they used Bruce Lee instead.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

I liked the KUNG FU series with Carradine as a western as well, though it would have been cool if they used Bruce Lee instead.

it was his idea originally.....from a Bruce Lee interview....

In her memoirs, Bruce Lee's widow, Linda Lee Cadwell, asserts that Lee created the concept for the series, which was then stolen by Warner Bros. There is circumstantial evidence for this in a December 8, 1971 television interview that Bruce Lee gave on The Pierre Berton Show. In the interview, Lee stated that he had developed a concept for a television series called The Warrior, meant to star himself, about a martial artist in the American Old West (the same concept as Kung Fu, which aired the following year), but that he was having trouble pitching it to Warner Brothers and Paramount.

In the interview, Pierre Berton comments, "There's a pretty good chance that you'll get a TV series in the States called 'The Warrior', in it, where you use what, the Martial Arts in Western setting?"

Lee responds, "That was the original idea, ...both of them [Warner and Paramount], I think, they want me to be in a modernized type of a thing, and they think that the Western type of thing is out. Whereas I want to do the Western. Because, you see, how else can you justify all of the punching and kicking and violence, except in the period of the West?"

Later in the interview, Berton asks Lee about "the problems that you face as a Chinese hero in an American series. Have people come up in the industry and said 'well, we don't know how the audience are going to take a non-American'?"

Lee responds "Well, such question has been raised, in fact, it is being discussed. That is why The Warrior is probably not going to be on." Lee adds, "They think that business-wise it is a risk. I don't blame them. If the situation were reversed, and an American star were to come to Hong Kong, and I was the man with the money, I would have my own concerns as to whether the acceptance would be there."

Whether or not Kung Fu was based on a concept by Lee, he was undoubtedly considered for the starring role. Herbie Pilato, in his 1993 book The Kung Fu Book of Caine: The Complete Guide to TV's First Mystical Eastern Western (pages 32–33), commented on the casting decision:

Before the filming of the Kung Fu TV movie began, there was some discussion as to whether or not an Asian actor should play Kwai Chang Caine. Bruce Lee was considered for the role. In 1971, Bruce Lee wasn't the cult film hero he later became for his roles in The Big Boss (1971), Fist of Fury (1972), Way of the Dragon (1972) and Enter the Dragon (1973). At that point he was best known as Kato on TV's Green Hornet (1966–1967) (Kung Fu guest actor Robert Ito reports that Lee hated the role of Kato because he "thought it was so subservient"). "In my eyes and in the eyes of Jerry Thorpe," says Harvey Frand, "David Carradine was always our first choice to play Caine. But there was some disagreement because the network was interested in a more muscular actor and the studio was interested in getting Bruce Lee." Frand says Lee wouldn't have really been appropriate for the series—despite the fact that he went on to considerable success in the martial arts film world. The Kung Fu show needed a serene person, and Carradine was more appropriate for the role. Ed Spielman agrees: "I liked David in the part. One of Japan's foremost Karate champions used to say that the only qualification that was needed to be trained in the martial arts was that you had to know how to dance. And on top of being an accomplished athlete and actor, David could dance." Nonetheless, grumbling from the Asian community would have made sense, given the fact that major roles for Asian actors were almost nonexistent. James Hong, an actor on the show and ex-president of the Association of Asian/Pacific American Artists (AAPAA) says that at the time Asian actors felt that "if they were going to do a so-called Asian hero on Kung Fu, then why don't they hire an Asian actor to play the lead? But then the show went on, we realized that it was a great source of employment for the Asian acting community." In fact, Hong says, Carradine had a good relationship with the Asian community.

 

[rightwinger]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

I liked the KUNG FU series with Carradine as a western as well, though it would have been cool if they used Bruce Lee instead.

it was his idea originally.....from a Bruce Lee interview....

In her memoirs, Bruce Lee's widow, Linda Lee Cadwell, asserts that Lee created the concept for the series, which was then stolen by Warner Bros. There is circumstantial evidence for this in a December 8, 1971 television interview that Bruce Lee gave on The Pierre Berton Show. In the interview, Lee stated that he had developed a concept for a television series called The Warrior, meant to star himself, about a martial artist in the American Old West (the same concept as Kung Fu, which aired the following year), but that he was having trouble pitching it to Warner Brothers and Paramount.

In the interview, Pierre Berton comments, "There's a pretty good chance that you'll get a TV series in the States called 'The Warrior', in it, where you use what, the Martial Arts in Western setting?"

Lee responds, "That was the original idea, ...both of them [Warner and Paramount], I think, they want me to be in a modernized type of a thing, and they think that the Western type of thing is out. Whereas I want to do the Western. Because, you see, how else can you justify all of the punching and kicking and violence, except in the period of the West?"

Later in the interview, Berton asks Lee about "the problems that you face as a Chinese hero in an American series. Have people come up in the industry and said 'well, we don't know how the audience are going to take a non-American'?"

Lee responds "Well, such question has been raised, in fact, it is being discussed. That is why The Warrior is probably not going to be on." Lee adds, "They think that business-wise it is a risk. I don't blame them. If the situation were reversed, and an American star were to come to Hong Kong, and I was the man with the money, I would have my own concerns as to whether the acceptance would be there."

Whether or not Kung Fu was based on a concept by Lee, he was undoubtedly considered for the starring role. Herbie Pilato, in his 1993 book The Kung Fu Book of Caine: The Complete Guide to TV's First Mystical Eastern Western (pages 32–33), commented on the casting decision:

Before the filming of the Kung Fu TV movie began, there was some discussion as to whether or not an Asian actor should play Kwai Chang Caine. Bruce Lee was considered for the role. In 1971, Bruce Lee wasn't the cult film hero he later became for his roles in The Big Boss (1971), Fist of Fury (1972), Way of the Dragon (1972) and Enter the Dragon (1973). At that point he was best known as Kato on TV's Green Hornet (1966–1967) (Kung Fu guest actor Robert Ito reports that Lee hated the role of Kato because he "thought it was so subservient"). "In my eyes and in the eyes of Jerry Thorpe," says Harvey Frand, "David Carradine was always our first choice to play Caine. But there was some disagreement because the network was interested in a more muscular actor and the studio was interested in getting Bruce Lee." Frand says Lee wouldn't have really been appropriate for the series—despite the fact that he went on to considerable success in the martial arts film world. The Kung Fu show needed a serene person, and Carradine was more appropriate for the role. Ed Spielman agrees: "I liked David in the part. One of Japan's foremost Karate champions used to say that the only qualification that was needed to be trained in the martial arts was that you had to know how to dance. And on top of being an accomplished athlete and actor, David could dance." Nonetheless, grumbling from the Asian community would have made sense, given the fact that major roles for Asian actors were almost nonexistent. James Hong, an actor on the show and ex-president of the Association of Asian/Pacific American Artists (AAPAA) says that at the time Asian actors felt that "if they were going to do a so-called Asian hero on Kung Fu, then why don't they hire an Asian actor to play the lead? But then the show went on, we realized that it was a great source of employment for the Asian acting community." In fact, Hong says, Carradine had a good relationship with the Asian community.

Bonanza should have hired Bruce Lee to play Hop Sing

He would have kicked Hoss' ass every time he went for seconds

 

[Yarddog]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

I liked the KUNG FU series with Carradine as a western as well, though it would have been cool if they used Bruce Lee instead.

it was his idea originally.....from a Bruce Lee interview....

In her memoirs, Bruce Lee's widow, Linda Lee Cadwell, asserts that Lee created the concept for the series, which was then stolen by Warner Bros. There is circumstantial evidence for this in a December 8, 1971 television interview that Bruce Lee gave on The Pierre Berton Show. In the interview, Lee stated that he had developed a concept for a television series called The Warrior, meant to star himself, about a martial artist in the American Old West (the same concept as Kung Fu, which aired the following year), but that he was having trouble pitching it to Warner Brothers and Paramount.

In the interview, Pierre Berton comments, "There's a pretty good chance that you'll get a TV series in the States called 'The Warrior', in it, where you use what, the Martial Arts in Western setting?"

Lee responds, "That was the original idea, ...both of them [Warner and Paramount], I think, they want me to be in a modernized type of a thing, and they think that the Western type of thing is out. Whereas I want to do the Western. Because, you see, how else can you justify all of the punching and kicking and violence, except in the period of the West?"

Later in the interview, Berton asks Lee about "the problems that you face as a Chinese hero in an American series. Have people come up in the industry and said 'well, we don't know how the audience are going to take a non-American'?"

Lee responds "Well, such question has been raised, in fact, it is being discussed. That is why The Warrior is probably not going to be on." Lee adds, "They think that business-wise it is a risk. I don't blame them. If the situation were reversed, and an American star were to come to Hong Kong, and I was the man with the money, I would have my own concerns as to whether the acceptance would be there."

Whether or not Kung Fu was based on a concept by Lee, he was undoubtedly considered for the starring role. Herbie Pilato, in his 1993 book The Kung Fu Book of Caine: The Complete Guide to TV's First Mystical Eastern Western (pages 32–33), commented on the casting decision:

Before the filming of the Kung Fu TV movie began, there was some discussion as to whether or not an Asian actor should play Kwai Chang Caine. Bruce Lee was considered for the role. In 1971, Bruce Lee wasn't the cult film hero he later became for his roles in The Big Boss (1971), Fist of Fury (1972), Way of the Dragon (1972) and Enter the Dragon (1973). At that point he was best known as Kato on TV's Green Hornet (1966–1967) (Kung Fu guest actor Robert Ito reports that Lee hated the role of Kato because he "thought it was so subservient"). "In my eyes and in the eyes of Jerry Thorpe," says Harvey Frand, "David Carradine was always our first choice to play Caine. But there was some disagreement because the network was interested in a more muscular actor and the studio was interested in getting Bruce Lee." Frand says Lee wouldn't have really been appropriate for the series—despite the fact that he went on to considerable success in the martial arts film world. The Kung Fu show needed a serene person, and Carradine was more appropriate for the role. Ed Spielman agrees: "I liked David in the part. One of Japan's foremost Karate champions used to say that the only qualification that was needed to be trained in the martial arts was that you had to know how to dance. And on top of being an accomplished athlete and actor, David could dance." Nonetheless, grumbling from the Asian community would have made sense, given the fact that major roles for Asian actors were almost nonexistent. James Hong, an actor on the show and ex-president of the Association of Asian/Pacific American Artists (AAPAA) says that at the time Asian actors felt that "if they were going to do a so-called Asian hero on Kung Fu, then why don't they hire an Asian actor to play the lead? But then the show went on, we realized that it was a great source of employment for the Asian acting community." In fact, Hong says, Carradine had a good relationship with the Asian community.

Bonanza should have hired Bruce Lee to play Hop Sing

He would have kicked Hoss' ass every time he went for seconds

haha Now I would have loved that

 

[Daniel James]

I used to love Bonanza but watching it now it seems the writing and acting was kind of corny. Can you get any more racist than Hop Sing?

Gunsmoke has held up well. Good acting and good screenwriting. They also covered more socially relevant issues

Festus was worth watching Gunsmoke.

As was hoss in Bonanza


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Uncensored2008]

[
Most of the early westerns (50s, 60s and 70s) were Hollywood's version of the dime novel. Since I'm a historian and a living historian to boot the biggest issue for me is historical accuracy. Granted though I definitely like many historically incorrect movies I still look for details and most movies supposedly based on historical events fall short in many areas. Since it's Hollywood I expect it so I'm not disappointed when they "Hollywood" a story so look at it for the entertainment value, conversely I'm pleasantly surprised when they get it mostly correct.
Nowadays I find it amusing to see a western that is supposedly late 1860s, early 1870s and everyone is running around in jeans, modern cowboy boots, modern cowboy hats, 1894 Winchesters and M1873s revolvers (Peacemakers), modern (1930s style) holsters, etc.
Even those movies that are set in the 1880s everyone has Winchesters and Peacemakers......... not.....

Mostly good points.

Levi Strauss patented the denim Blue Jean Trousers in 1854, so there is no historical problem with jeans, provided they are button fly. Good point on the guns. Most of the pre-1890 firearms were black powder and rim fire (.44-40) if they had a cartridge at all. What bugs me is when I see western where a person has a revolver with a crank on it, then loads the revolver with cartridges.

That crank is there to load the revolver, pour powder in, put a ball on, and crank it into the cylinder. You cannot use cartridges in a revolver like the one above. (1861 Colt Army - .44)

 

[OldLady]

I liked I Spy.
The funniest Get Smart was the movie done years after the show was off the air. The scene where he tries to pick up 99 and carry her during an action scene made me laugh so hard I cried. Still makes me smile to remember it.

 

[rightwinger]

I liked I Spy.
The funniest Get Smart was the movie done years after the show was off the air. The scene where he tries to pick up 99 and carry her during an action scene made me laugh so hard I cried. Still makes me smile to remember it.

I Spy was good in its day...very witty and didn't take itself too seriously

I love where they would go into a "Judo chop" when they were fighting
It was very big in the 60s

 

[Eloy]

A western that never got the support from the network it deserved was The Loner well written by Rod Serling with music by Jerry Goldsmith. It played for only one season on CBS 1965-1966 but none of the sponsors picked it up. Commercial television, what can you say ... could bring us great art but the sponsors had the last word.

 

[rightwinger]

A western that never got the support from the network it deserved was The Loner well written by Rod Serling with music by Jerry Goldsmith. It played for only one season on CBS 1965-1966 but none of the sponsors picked it up. Commercial television, what can you say ... could bring us great art but the sponsors had the last word.

For the life of me....I don't remember that one

Remember "The Guns of Will Sonnet" with Walter Brennan?

 

[Eloy]

A western that never got the support from the network it deserved was The Loner well written by Rod Serling with music by Jerry Goldsmith. It played for only one season on CBS 1965-1966 but none of the sponsors picked it up. Commercial television, what can you say ... could bring us great art but the sponsors had the last word.

For the life of me....I don't remember that one

Remember "The Guns of Will Sonnet" with Walter Brennan?

We did not get "The Guns of Will Sonnet" where I lived. In the USA The Loner was broadcast on Saturday nights.