Which Tax Would You Rather Pay?

Just simplifying the tax code would save us all millions. There is an entire Multi Billion dollar industry that exsists only because Americans can't understand the confusing Tax codes.
 
go to the Fair tax web site [dot org at the end]

read the section on "prebate".


What happens when you tax "the rich guy"?

He passes the tax on to you with higher prices. He has no choice.


Under the Fair Tax plan, the average Joe will have 7% more income per year.

If you make $50,000 that comes out to $3500

could you use $3500 right now?

plus the American currency would be worth more. More business would be conducted here.


IT'S A WINNER!

We've abolished slavery.

We gave women the right to vote.

We liberated Europe twice.

We defeated the Soviet Union.

We put a man on the moon.

We can free the American worker and eliminate this backward tax code.


The gov't will acctually take in more money.

15 Harvard economists can't all be wrong.
 
We need to get rid of this socialist yoke that weighs down the spirit of what makes us the best country in the world.

We don't need the Big Brother gov't to take care of us. We're Americans, we're better than that.

We are independent and rugged.

We are in control of our own destiny.

Stop trying to be equal and be better. That's what makes us who we are. We're better. Leave the equal crap for the rest of the world. They're equal.

Funny that you imagine that income tax is a form of slavery but the VAT tax isn't.

We are like cattle debating which type of yoke we prefer here when we pull the plough for the master.

PURE FREEDOM exists in PURE ANARCHY and no place else.
 
I am also pretty sure with the flat tax, there would still be a low income cut off, with the people below it paying little or no taxes.

This is the theory of the 'prebate' incorporated into Huckabee's 'fair tax' proposal. The problem with a 'prebate' is that it becomes still another entitlement that may or may not be used in ways to promote the common welfare by stimulating the economy, creating new jobs, etc.

And if there is a rebate at the end of the year for low income folks, that still requires filing a detailed tax return to prove low income status. Folks like me who receive most income from our small business could likely be able to manipulate the books to show low income status even though we technically do not qualify. In short, the bookkeeping requirements for many or most would be just a strenuous as before.

And any kind of system that allows the poor to be exempted from paying any tax in the first place would be an administrative and accounting nightmare considering how often one's financial status might vary over the course of a year, especially for those who work as independent contractors or otherwise do not receive a steady paycheck.

I think a flat tax on earned income with reasonable standard exemptions (that would take care of the truly poor) and reasonable deductions (to promote investment, marriage, and charitable giving) allowed is the only way to go to simplify the tax code and create a truly equitable system.
 
Funny that you imagine that income tax is a form of slavery but the VAT tax isn't.

We are like cattle debating which type of yoke we prefer here when we pull the plough for the master.

PURE FREEDOM exists in PURE ANARCHY and no place else.

The income tax is unconstitutional. if we need a road, have a road tax, etc.

only direct taxes.

social security tax? fine.

indirect taxes are unconstitutional.

wasn't it started to pay for ww2?

anyways, you're probably right. they'll take as much as they want and spend more no matter what. lol

and why not when we allow them.
 
sealybobo wrote:
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The income tax is unconstitutional. ...indirect taxes are unconstitutional.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you say that?
 
The 16th Amendment authorizes an income tax meaning that it was authorized by Congress, signed by the President, and then was voted on by the citizens so that it was ratified by the states. It's pretty hard to say that it is unconstitutional but I'm pretty sure that the Congress that passed it did not have in mind the nightmare that it has become.

There is plenty of room within the Constitutional authority to fix that.
 
It sure seems to me that if we had a national sales tax that the rich would still pay more in taxes than the poor. Isn't it true that the more you make, the more you spend, the more you get taxed...

I've also heard suggestions like some of the food staples like milk, bread, etc... would not have to be taxed...

If we eliminated the income tax NO MORE IRS!!!! plus there wouldn't be all of these tax loopholes that people complain the rich people get.
 
go to the Fair tax web site [dot org at the end]

read the section on "prebate".


What happens when you tax "the rich guy"?

He passes the tax on to you with higher prices. He has no choice.


Under the Fair Tax plan, the average Joe will have 7% more income per year.

If you make $50,000 that comes out to $3500

could you use $3500 right now?

plus the American currency would be worth more. More business would be conducted here.


IT'S A WINNER!

We've abolished slavery.

We gave women the right to vote.

We liberated Europe twice.

We defeated the Soviet Union.

We put a man on the moon.

We can free the American worker and eliminate this backward tax code.


The gov't will acctually take in more money.

15 Harvard economists can't all be wrong.

Sounds like a great plan... Why is it so hard to get our politicians to work together and actually do something good for the country?
 
It sure seems to me that if we had a national sales tax that the rich would still pay more in taxes than the poor. Isn't it true that the more you make, the more you spend, the more you get taxed...

I've also heard suggestions like some of the food staples like milk, bread, etc... would not have to be taxed...

If we eliminated the income tax NO MORE IRS!!!! plus there wouldn't be all of these tax loopholes that people complain the rich people get.

feh! I'd just fly to France and buy all my stuff there and screw you whiners to the wall!
 
sealybobo wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The income tax is unconstitutional. ...indirect taxes are unconstitutional.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you say that?

The Supreme Court ruled it so in the 1800's and have never changed their position on that. So the Income tax is unconstitutional and the IRS and Federal Reserve were started by corrupt men who took over our banking system in 1913.

It is hard to explain. Try to find the DVD Freedom to Fascism. It is a great documentary. The guy who hosted it, Aaron Russo, has been discredited and called a conspiracy theorist, but just watch it. I am also called a conspiracy theorist, but I don't believe I am. If you read the history of JP Morgan, Rockafellor and Carnege, you would never understand how Congress in 1913 allowed these con men to start our Federal Reserve System. We basically gave them the gold in fort knox for nothing. Now our dollar is backed by nothing. It is only as worthless as they say it is.

Oh god, I'm rambling. Sorry. I won't be able to explain it all. Even after you see the documentary, you'll have more questions. But taxes are only supposed to be direct taxes. If you need a railroad, then it is fine to do a railroad tax. But what does the income tax pay? It pays just the interest on the national debt. So the richest men in America bribed Congress in 1913, over Xmas break no less, to give them our finances.

People will argue with me. I don't feel like arguing it. Just watch the dvd and then argue with me. It is very compelling. He even interviews IRS execs who you can tell are getting pissed at him because he is right. At least I believe he is right.

Ever notice how difficult the tax laws are? Even Albert Einstein agreed it's rediculous.

And I guess paying the income tax is voluntary. Somewhere it says that. But good luck finding it.

Or it says, "people required to pay state taxes are required to pay federal taxes." But no one is required. It's a long story.

Also go to Ron Paul's website. Notice how the mainstream media just ignored him after he said something like this on Glenn Beck.

Both Democrats and Republicans know this is true. They are all in on it.

So this is why people say, "all politicians are corrupt.". Because entire system is corrupt.

And the same men that started the Federal Reserve also started Standard Oil.

They own everything. And the further we go into debt, the richer they get, and the more power they have over us and the politicians.

I just hope you and everyone else looks into it. I don't think I'll convince you. I had to see for myself.

Look up We The People too. They ran a full page add about this in the USA Today and the paper said they could no longer run the add. No explanation given.

All they ask the IRS is to SHOW THEM THE LAW THAT SAYS THEY MUST PAY INCOME TAX. And they can't. They can show them the Internal Revenue Code book, but that's not the law. That's the rules.

This is the root of all our problems. We don't own America anymore. The people that control the money control us.

Why did we need the richest men in America to run our banking system? Oh yea, they caused the Great Depression and then came to our rescue.

Same thing going on today. Disaster capitalism.
 
It is impossible to really know without knowing what the VAT rate will be.

I see the number 23% used, but critics claim that the even that rate is fraudulent and the real rate is about 30%. (apparently it's a semantics issue...see FairTax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

I believe that the "Fair Tax" will create wonderful career opportunities for the in the emerging black markets that will inevitably spring up in every hamlet, village, town and city in America.

I also believe that the overall market for used stuff would eventually become larger than the markets of new stuff.

OTOH, can that system be any worse that the wholesale fraud that our income tax system already is?

Of course it could.

Things, bad as they are, can always get worse.

So the question is who will this system benefit and who will it screw?

Critics say the poor will benefit (or at worse, it will be neutral), the middle class and upper middle classes will get screwed, and the better off will benefit tremendously.

We really have to see the numbers (and the assumptions behind those numbers, too) to really know.


It looks like it will screw the middle class the most.

Image:NRST-percentile.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
It sure seems to me that if we had a national sales tax that the rich would still pay more in taxes than the poor. Isn't it true that the more you make, the more you spend, the more you get taxed...

I've also heard suggestions like some of the food staples like milk, bread, etc... would not have to be taxed...

If we eliminated the income tax NO MORE IRS!!!! plus there wouldn't be all of these tax loopholes that people complain the rich people get.

Another government department will just replace it. There will have to be a department to over see the policies and collection of what ever tax system is set up. Shit by any other name is still shit.
 
Angel, I don't get it. Didn't you state that you get back more in taxes than you put in? How can you call that shit and still take it? I'm not trying to flame you, I just don't understand the attitude.
 
I got a letter yesterday from the IRS claiming that we (husband and myself) owe them $700+ more for the 2006 tax year. Right now I'm not feeling very fuzzy. I'm hoping they will give us until the next tax returns if we do owe it. I've called our tax lady but haven't heard back from her yet.
 
sealybobo wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh god, I'm rambling.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, you are rambling. The Supreme Court never ruled the "income tax" unconstitutional; just the way it was implemented. Government was never granted the power to lay a direct tax upon the inhabitants of the States. The Court, later, declared the "income tax" to be in the indirect tax category, which is a tax upon privileges granted by government; like charters of incorporation; business licenses; and etc. The Court noted: "...the requirement to pay such taxes involves the exercise of privileges".
 
The income tax is unconstitutional. if we need a road, have a road tax, etc.

only direct taxes.

social security tax? fine.

indirect taxes are unconstitutional.

wasn't it started to pay for ww2?

anyways, you're probably right. they'll take as much as they want and spend more no matter what. lol

and why not when we allow them.

I am not qualified to decide what is or is not constiutional.

Frankly, I doubt you are either.
 

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