CDZ Which political party is the party of the KKK?

[Pogo]

So you guys keep lying about it...we have the internet now to show that you are lying....

Indeed we do. That's why I keep inviting you --- or anyone anywhere --- to use that internet to supply us all with some kind of link to any documentation of the Klan being started, staffed or run by a political party.

I'm still pitching a shutout.

 

[Syriusly]

Martin Luther King Jr. - who you have called a fool and a sell out- noted that your party in 1964 became the party of the KKK

Martin Luther King Jr.
The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism. All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right

You can post that over and over.......it doesn't change the fact that if what you posted is accurate...he went with the democrat racist over the civil rights leader Barry Goldwater......

There was no "racist", Democrat or Republican, running that year. George Wallace had offered to switch parties to be Goldwater's running mate but the latter declined, and Wallace put off his aspirations until the next Presidential cycle when he ran with a far-right California party called the American Independent Party.

But the Democrat in 1964 was Lyndon Johnson...

Johnson and his chief political strategists on the civil rights bill --- Larry O'Brien and Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach --- began huddling within days of the assassination. Key to passage, they recognized, would be the civil rights organizations, labor, business, the churches, and the Republican party.

.... On his way to the office on the morning of December 4 [1963]--- the Johnsons were still living at The Elms --- LBJ had his driver swing by and pick up George Meany, who lived nearby. During the ride, Meany promised he would do everything possible to secure support for the civil rights bill from leaders of the AFL-CIO, no small task because the measure covered apprenticeship programs. A day later, LBJ gathered up House Republican Minority Leader Charles Halleck for the trip downtown. Halleck was noncommittal; Johnson made it plain that he was going to hold the GOP's feet to the fire on civil rights: "I'm going to lay it on the line ... now you're either for civil rights or you're not ... you're either the party of Lincoln or you're not --- By God, put up or shut up."15 ---- LBJ: Architect of American Ambition, pp. 470-471​

.Not the topic here, but relevant to that topic, Johnson was also the first POTUS since Grant to prosecute the Klan.

He wanted power...even if that meant voting for Black Civil Rights.......considering when he was free from Presidential aspirations he voted against every single Civil Rights act and the Anti-lynching law.......

No, I don't think there was a time in LBJ's life, until 1969 when he left office, that he was 'free from Presidential aspirations' at first from a distance and significantly as Senate Majority Leader when he navigated an earlier civil rights bill through in 1957, a political coup that significantly enhanced his reputation nationally --- and put him in the Presidential candidate conversation --- while simultaneously earning sentiments of "betrayal" from the South -- an adept chicanery that's spelled out in detail in the Woods book I just quoted as well as in Doris Kearns Goodwin's biography.

Barry Goldwater voted for every single Civil Rights act and was a leader in civil rights......and he voted against it because it promoted racism, and violated private property rights

You're actually gonna try to plant your flag on "he was for it before he was against it" huh?



/offtopic

Shit head......you have seen my link, you saw what Goldwater did and what he thought about the 64 act, affirmitive action and public accomodation, one racist, the other an invasion of personal property rights, they went to far.....he was a civil rights leader, LBJ was a racist opportunist....

moron...

Goldwater was against the two provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act that gave the Act teeth.

Johnson was for the 1964 Civil Rights Act- and the Voting Rights Act, and the 1968 Civil Rights Act.

All of which Ronald Reagan was against.

Maybe Johnson was a racist- but damn he sure did a lot for Civil Rights in America.

Far more than Goldwater did.

 

[Iceweasel]

The bottom line is the Democrat Party was the home of the KKK. It's a fact that can't be disputed. Trying to somehow pin it on Republicans, especially today is a futile exercise in self flagellation.

 

[Iceweasel]

So you guys keep lying about it...we have the internet now to show that you are lying....

Indeed we do. That's why I keep inviting you --- or anyone anywhere --- to use that internet to supply us all with some kind of link to any documentation of the Klan being started, staffed or run by a political party.

I'm still pitching a shutout.

Been done numerous times. You are lying.

 

[BULLDOG]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

 

[Iceweasel]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

Look at here, a fake news lover.

 

[BULLDOG]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

Look at here, a fake news lover.

Sorry, I don't generally believe the stuff from Alex Jones, Hannity, or Orilley like you do.

 

[Iceweasel]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

Look at here, a fake news lover.

Sorry, I don't generally believe the stuff from Alex Jones, Hannity, or Orilley like you do.

You just threw shit then thought even more even would make it look good.

 

[Muhammed]

The KKK terrorized and murdered Republicans.

At the time, for obvious reasons, all Negros were presumed to be Republicans and that is why the Democrats murdered blacks more often than white Republicans. The dark color of their skin was proof enough to identify Negros as Republicans. More proof was needed to prove that a white man was a Republican, therefore the Democrats murdered blacks at a greater rate than they murdered whites.

 

[2aguy]

No moron...

No moron.....

No moron......

That is how he spun it moron......

Shit head..........

moron...

again...since you are too stupid to understand....

I'm gonna lay this down once, after which you get sent to the Principal's office. From the CDZ Rules and Guidelines:

No Name Calling Or Putting Down Posters
No Trolling and/or Troll Threads
No Hijacking
No Personal Attacks

Oh and you're also off the topic with most if not all of these posts.

I apologize for insulting you in the CDZ.....I didn't realize this post was in there.....responding to you and the other guys like you one loses track sometimes.

You are a wonderful.....person......

 

[2aguy]

So you guys keep lying about it...we have the internet now to show that you are lying....

Indeed we do. That's why I keep inviting you --- or anyone anywhere --- to use that internet to supply us all with some kind of link to any documentation of the Klan being started, staffed or run by a political party.

I'm still pitching a shutout.

No....we said it was started by democrats......and then they started working as the terrorist arm working for that political parties goals....they murdered freed blacks and their Republican allies. You claim that former Confederate army officers would not have belonged to the democrat party...and that is just absurd.

 

[2aguy]

You can post that over and over.......it doesn't change the fact that if what you posted is accurate...he went with the democrat racist over the civil rights leader Barry Goldwater......

There was no "racist", Democrat or Republican, running that year. George Wallace had offered to switch parties to be Goldwater's running mate but the latter declined, and Wallace put off his aspirations until the next Presidential cycle when he ran with a far-right California party called the American Independent Party.

But the Democrat in 1964 was Lyndon Johnson...

Johnson and his chief political strategists on the civil rights bill --- Larry O'Brien and Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach --- began huddling within days of the assassination. Key to passage, they recognized, would be the civil rights organizations, labor, business, the churches, and the Republican party.

.... On his way to the office on the morning of December 4 [1963]--- the Johnsons were still living at The Elms --- LBJ had his driver swing by and pick up George Meany, who lived nearby. During the ride, Meany promised he would do everything possible to secure support for the civil rights bill from leaders of the AFL-CIO, no small task because the measure covered apprenticeship programs. A day later, LBJ gathered up House Republican Minority Leader Charles Halleck for the trip downtown. Halleck was noncommittal; Johnson made it plain that he was going to hold the GOP's feet to the fire on civil rights: "I'm going to lay it on the line ... now you're either for civil rights or you're not ... you're either the party of Lincoln or you're not --- By God, put up or shut up."15 ---- LBJ: Architect of American Ambition, pp. 470-471​

.Not the topic here, but relevant to that topic, Johnson was also the first POTUS since Grant to prosecute the Klan.

He wanted power...even if that meant voting for Black Civil Rights.......considering when he was free from Presidential aspirations he voted against every single Civil Rights act and the Anti-lynching law.......

No, I don't think there was a time in LBJ's life, until 1969 when he left office, that he was 'free from Presidential aspirations' at first from a distance and significantly as Senate Majority Leader when he navigated an earlier civil rights bill through in 1957, a political coup that significantly enhanced his reputation nationally --- and put him in the Presidential candidate conversation --- while simultaneously earning sentiments of "betrayal" from the South -- an adept chicanery that's spelled out in detail in the Woods book I just quoted as well as in Doris Kearns Goodwin's biography.

Barry Goldwater voted for every single Civil Rights act and was a leader in civil rights......and he voted against it because it promoted racism, and violated private property rights

You're actually gonna try to plant your flag on "he was for it before he was against it" huh?



/offtopic

Shit head......you have seen my link, you saw what Goldwater did and what he thought about the 64 act, affirmitive action and public accomodation, one racist, the other an invasion of personal property rights, they went to far.....he was a civil rights leader, LBJ was a racist opportunist....

moron...

Goldwater was against the two provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act that gave the Act teeth.

Johnson was for the 1964 Civil Rights Act- and the Voting Rights Act, and the 1968 Civil Rights Act.

All of which Ronald Reagan was against.

Maybe Johnson was a racist- but damn he sure did a lot for Civil Rights in America.

Far more than Goldwater did.

No....he did a lot for the democrat party and destroyed the black family in this country...and through the 1964 act he continued racism through affirmative action...and has allowed the assault on the 1st amendment Rights of bakers, photographers and anyone who has deeply held religious beliefs...just like Martin Luther Kiing........who would have be ashamed of what those 2 provisions in the act have allowed to happen to innocent people...

Barry Goldwater wasn't a racist, and was a civil rights leader...lbj was a racist, but a realist, who didn't let his racism get in the way of getting a vote.

 

[tinynascarfan]

My opinion: Neither party is the party of the KKK- this is just partisan bullshit. Both parties reject the KKK- no party endorses any KKK members for anything.

There is at least a few threads a week by right wing nut jobs trying to label the Democratic Party the party of the KKK- based upon some rather dubious claims from 150 years ago.

Countering that is the claim by Martin Luther King Jr. that the GOP in 1964 pivoted to appeal to racists and the radical right wing becoming the party of the KKK. That of course was over 50 years ago.

The fact is that members of the KKK historically have belonged to both the Democratic and Republican Parties- and the fact is that it is easy to find examples to scream 'racist-racist' for both parties.

But neither party is the party of the KKK. African Americans have by a large degree moved from the GOP Party to the Democratic Party in the last 70 years. Meanwhile, there are conservative African Americans who have chosen the GOP.

I presume that all of those voters make as intelligent decisions as I make- and therefore none of those millions of African Americans have decided that their party is the party of the KKK.

And old white dudes telling them that their party is the party of the KKK is essentially racist in nature- that they know better than African Americans do.

In other threads, I have made a point of posting MLK Jr's remarks declaring the GOP of 1964 becoming the party of the KKK- to counter the BS claims that the Democrats are the party of the KKK.

I do not actually believe either party is the party of the KKK- but if anyone insists that the Democrats are, because of what happened 150 years ago- I will point out that Martin Luther King Jr. considered the GOP to have moved to becoming the party of the KKK.

It is not really a surprise that those who claim the Democrats are the party of the KKK, also tend to consider President Obama to be a racist, and generally despise Martin Luther King Jr.

I voted, so I'm gonna reply.

I'm a Republican. I'm a Christian. I pray to God, Father of Jesus because I'm not willing to give up hope, we are just 500 years from thinking the world was flat, and we have written Word from 2000 years before that. aprox. 2500 years of man's past is sort of known, In the last 30 years, intelligence has increased and advancement in everything has exploded, and I know it's all been prophesied, and I can point it out, but that's for religion, not this thread. I pray because I hope to see everyone I've ever loved again. I've lost grandparents and a grandson, so I hold out hope.

I love this country! I love everyone in this country, I see that President Obama, has done a lot of things right. I think Paul Ryan nailed it in his town hall last night. I don't want to ship out any illegal immigrants, that are not criminals(That's a different thread too.) I don't want to separate families, not Mexican, or even Rosie O'Donnell(that is a joke, but just the Rosie part.)

I am a high risk for insurance, and Obama care has taken care of me and my wife. I'm getting paid well, but I work my ass off for it. I think there are crazy people running around everywhere, and I own a gun, to protect my house, I don't hunt, I don't even shoot in turkey shoots, and the beer is temping(another joke, nobody drinks that early.)

I drink beer with colored folks, good people, better than many white people I know. I cant believe that race is even an issue anymore. I believe cops should be accountable, and that most, 99.9 percent, are trying their best, in a very rough situation. They're human, they might screw up, I know I would, and I know it well enough, to talk my son out of becoming a cop. I don't know if he could shoot anybody, or not.

I drive a truck. 10 hours a night. Make good money. Work graveyards. I know we need a lot more common sense in Washington, and this bickering is gonna have to stop, on both sides of the aisle. I didn't vote for Trump, I voted against Hillary, yeah, we have things we don't agree on, but we can help this country out, by fixing what we agree on.

I want insurance, Obama care provided that for me, but my coworkers are paying over 40 percent of their paycheck on just health insurance. 10 percent is gone for taxes, automaticly. He makes the same as I do.

I could go on and on and on. We gonna agree on some, not on others. The last big one.

I have a lesbian daughter(my youngest). She's 20 and will not move out(it's past time.) She works and is far to trusting of others, a father's nightmare(among others).. I shouldn't have to worry about her being the victim of a hate crime!

For those far left folks, that seem like decent, hard working folks(and I don't mean bums like my oldest daughter), like tigerred59 , I don't think race is an issue anymore. I think cops are scared, I would be!

 

[Pogo]

The bottom line is the Democrat Party was the home of the KKK. It's a fact that can't be disputed. Trying to somehow pin it on Republicans, especially today is a futile exercise in self flagellation.

The whole point here is that the Klan isn't connected to ANY political party, and yes it can definitely be disputed. So trying to pin it on binary politics, especially after you've been handed a fairly intricate contextual background, is a futile exercise in partisan hackery.

So you guys keep lying about it...we have the internet now to show that you are lying....

Indeed we do. That's why I keep inviting you --- or anyone anywhere --- to use that internet to supply us all with some kind of link to any documentation of the Klan being started, staffed or run by a political party.

I'm still pitching a shutout.

Been done numerous times. You are lying.

"Been done" exactly the same number of times as the Southern electoral vote count of the1860 Democratic and Republican presidential candidates combined --- Zero.

 

[Iceweasel]

The whole point here is that the Klan isn't connected to ANY political party,

Yes it was and I proved it. It's still there for anyone to see.

 

[Pogo]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

Look at here, a fake news lover.

Kind of an ironical post for a guy who gets behind a myth he can't support and then goes "it's been done, you are lying".

 

[Iceweasel]

There's nothing dubious about the KKK being Democrats. It's a historical fact. That doesn't mean today and it doesn't mean they are the long lost love child of the GOP. The KKK, Hilter, Nazis, fascism is just noise. Like golden showers on a flat rock.

Or on a bed in Russia.

Look at here, a fake news lover.

Kind of an ironical post for a guy who gets behind a myth he can't support and then goes "it's been done, you are lying".

I did, you're stuffing your head up your ass and claiming you see nothing. Duh.

 

[Pogo]

The KKK terrorized and murdered Republicans.

At the time, for obvious reasons, all Negros were presumed to be Republicans and that is why the Democrats murdered blacks more often than white Republicans. The dark color of their skin was proof enough to identify Negros as Republicans. More proof was needed to prove that a white man was a Republican, therefore the Democrats murdered blacks at a greater rate than they murdered whites.

Those elements - inside and outside the Klan, before and during its existence -- were already murdering and coercing blacks. The Klan once it ran amok certainly persecuted people who were Republicans; they did the same on people who happened to be federal personnel and who happened to be "carpetbaggers" as well as the occasional philandering husband or debt deadbeat. That doesn't make them bankers, priests or communists by some fallacy of exception.

What's missing here is this cockamamie idea that all elements of everything that happens in human history can be reduced to one of two elements, either "Democrat" or "Republican". That's nowhere near the world of reality, which is far more complex than that. Those targeted black ex-slaves for instance, were targeted for trying to exercise the right to vote --- but you left out that they were also targeted for having the temerity (<sarc) to walk into town in public, or attempt to conduct business with whites, or apply for jobs or expect to be paid for them.

Again, the nefarious activities practiced by the Klan were going on long before they existed, and continued long after they were extinguished. And then they bubbled up in the second one. The Klan was one of the symptoms of it. But to try to reduce it to some binary formula of 'one of two political parties' is cherrypicking nonsense.

Another factor here is that its original incarnation existed only in the South --- yet another demonstration that it was a cultural expression. Had it been part of a political party it would have existed wherever that political party did, which was all over the nation. But it didn't -- because it was derived from a Southern cultural background. "Slave patrols" had been around since 1704 -- in the South. All that was new in that vein was the name and the attire. Refer back to post 30 for more extensive background on this.

And again ---these same elements that did similar Klanlike things, existed in dozens of different groups in various regions all (again) in the South. I've listed some of them earlier. We single out the Klan in our time because it was made into a movie and then it was restarted by an opportunist taking advantage of the bigotry of his time, but in its own era the original Klan was one of literally dozens of similar groups popping up all over the vanquished Confederacy -- as well as ad hoc vigilante posses who never took the time to organize into a formal name. What about these groups? Were they all founded by a political party too? Doesn't seem real efficient.

This is a little like singling out a Hyundai in a full parking lot and going "see? Korea invented cars".

 

[Pogo]

So you guys keep lying about it...we have the internet now to show that you are lying....

Indeed we do. That's why I keep inviting you --- or anyone anywhere --- to use that internet to supply us all with some kind of link to any documentation of the Klan being started, staffed or run by a political party.

I'm still pitching a shutout.

No....we said it was started by democrats......and then they started working as the terrorist arm working for that political parties goals....they murdered freed blacks and their Republican allies. You claim that former Confederate army officers would not have belonged to the democrat party...and that is just absurd.

I said that there's no evidence they had ANY political party or activities. And there isn't.

I've been inviting anyone and everyone to prove me wrong on that for literally years. I have yet to see any. Not once.

Not only are you trying to prop this up on a probability fallacy but as I've also already laid out, the South completely rejected the Democratic candidate in the election leading to the civil war. Tennessee voted for a guy who wanted to keep the Union intact. And he was not a Democrat.

Again you seem to be vainly attempting to apply the binary world of today's Duopoly to times of 150 years ago. That won't work. In 1860 there were four major candidates running for POTUS. Of those four the Democrat came in last. Even twelve years later there were six major candidates. Not "two" -- six.

 

[Pogo]

There was no "racist", Democrat or Republican, running that year. George Wallace had offered to switch parties to be Goldwater's running mate but the latter declined, and Wallace put off his aspirations until the next Presidential cycle when he ran with a far-right California party called the American Independent Party.

But the Democrat in 1964 was Lyndon Johnson...

Johnson and his chief political strategists on the civil rights bill --- Larry O'Brien and Deputy Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach --- began huddling within days of the assassination. Key to passage, they recognized, would be the civil rights organizations, labor, business, the churches, and the Republican party.

.... On his way to the office on the morning of December 4 [1963]--- the Johnsons were still living at The Elms --- LBJ had his driver swing by and pick up George Meany, who lived nearby. During the ride, Meany promised he would do everything possible to secure support for the civil rights bill from leaders of the AFL-CIO, no small task because the measure covered apprenticeship programs. A day later, LBJ gathered up House Republican Minority Leader Charles Halleck for the trip downtown. Halleck was noncommittal; Johnson made it plain that he was going to hold the GOP's feet to the fire on civil rights: "I'm going to lay it on the line ... now you're either for civil rights or you're not ... you're either the party of Lincoln or you're not --- By God, put up or shut up."15 ---- LBJ: Architect of American Ambition, pp. 470-471​

.Not the topic here, but relevant to that topic, Johnson was also the first POTUS since Grant to prosecute the Klan.

He wanted power...even if that meant voting for Black Civil Rights.......considering when he was free from Presidential aspirations he voted against every single Civil Rights act and the Anti-lynching law.......

No, I don't think there was a time in LBJ's life, until 1969 when he left office, that he was 'free from Presidential aspirations' at first from a distance and significantly as Senate Majority Leader when he navigated an earlier civil rights bill through in 1957, a political coup that significantly enhanced his reputation nationally --- and put him in the Presidential candidate conversation --- while simultaneously earning sentiments of "betrayal" from the South -- an adept chicanery that's spelled out in detail in the Woods book I just quoted as well as in Doris Kearns Goodwin's biography.

Barry Goldwater voted for every single Civil Rights act and was a leader in civil rights......and he voted against it because it promoted racism, and violated private property rights

You're actually gonna try to plant your flag on "he was for it before he was against it" huh?



/offtopic

Shit head......you have seen my link, you saw what Goldwater did and what he thought about the 64 act, affirmitive action and public accomodation, one racist, the other an invasion of personal property rights, they went to far.....he was a civil rights leader, LBJ was a racist opportunist....

moron...

Goldwater was against the two provisions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act that gave the Act teeth.

Johnson was for the 1964 Civil Rights Act- and the Voting Rights Act, and the 1968 Civil Rights Act.

All of which Ronald Reagan was against.

Maybe Johnson was a racist- but damn he sure did a lot for Civil Rights in America.

Far more than Goldwater did.

No....he did a lot for the democrat party and destroyed the black family in this country...and through the 1964 act he continued racism through affirmative action...and has allowed the assault on the 1st amendment Rights of bakers, photographers and anyone who has deeply held religious beliefs...just like Martin Luther Kiing........who would have be ashamed of what those 2 provisions in the act have allowed to happen to innocent people...

Barry Goldwater wasn't a racist, and was a civil rights leader...lbj was a racist, but a realist, who didn't let his racism get in the way of getting a vote.

There's no evidence that either LBJ or AuH2O was a racist, or against civil rights. LBJ took the lead in that area by virtue of his position but that doesn't make the secondary guy a "civil rights leader" either. Your spin here is transparent in its desperation.

As far as governmental machinations neither one was a "bad" guy. They simply came from two different perspectives. Goldwater from the Constitutional-technical side, Johnson from the practicality of the times. Neither one was "wrong" in his point ---- again, the world of reality is simply not the binary-bot one/zero on-off switch you're trying to squeeze it down to.

And as far as "affirmative action" that wasn't what the CRA was about, but fun fact, it was Republicans who started that practice -- whether you want to count it from Richard Nixon's "Philadelphia Plan" of 1969, or earlier from the "forty acres and a mule" land grants to ex-slaves in Reconstruction. Of course, in the 19th century the Republicans were the party of 'big government', a legacy of the ex-Whigs which largely made up their constituency at the time (for example, Lincoln).

As with everything else --- this ain't some binary on-off switch thing.