CDZ Which is more important: Unity or Diversity?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by jwoodie, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. SobieskiSavedEurope
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    SobieskiSavedEurope VIP Member

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    So, why are Hispanic nations so behind?

    Was Spain ever a top intellectual power of Europe?

    I'm quite certain during the Renaissance Italy, Poland, and Germany were ahead of Spain by a wide margin in intellectual contributions.
     
  2. Toronado3800
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    Poland, Germany in 1600 while the Muslim hybrid Spaniards ruled the western world and was Italy a real country then or are we talking some city state arrangement of Papal power?

    We should be talking about the Ottomans or Qing Chinese.

    Also remember the Renaissance you mentioned is the Renaissance of what, European genetics which were great from 500 BC to 450 AD but sucked until 1450? No, it was political happenstance, a hoard from Asia, the fall of an empire, and some plague like I said earlier.

    Here is a neat Euro-Centric view of history but it still gets the point across:

    Interactive World History Atlas since 3000 BC | GeaCron
     
  3. SobieskiSavedEurope
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    Actually the genes for Europeans might have become smarter since the Iron Age.

    Eurogenes Blog: We're probably smarter than our Bronze and Iron Age ancestors

    But, there were massive population differences.

    The plague disproportionately hit the Mediterranean regions, which bought down their populations in comparison to Northern Europeans.

    While Mesolithic Europeans nearly went extinct from the Ice Age, the Near-East could build up agriculture, which furthered their population growth.

    Eurogenes Blog: European foragers were almost wiped out by the ice age

    So, the Near-East had a head start.

    Besides, the Near-Easterners who founded agriculture had a good deal of Villabruna related European ancestry.

    Eurogenes Blog: Villabruna cluster =/= Near Eastern migrants
     
  4. Picaro
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    you made the generalization, not me, so don't snivel when it gets answeredand you don't like it and then jump back to demanding 'being specific'.

    And like in Hollywood is was all positive and wonderful and everybody ended up living in big houses and had lots of fun forever after. It was all good, cuz 'Diversity n Stuff'!. Yes, we've all heard the platitudes and selective narratives. They aren't facts or reality, they're selective half-truths and propaganda, mostly delusional.

    Pick whatever time period you want; I referred to mass immigration all across our history; if you think cherrypicking little windows of time will change the results go ahead and give it a shot.

    Mass immigration isn't the same as 'no immigration', or' restricted and selective immigration' , but I can see why you would want to avoid the inconvenient stuff that belies the happy 'inclusiveness' narrative. As for WW II, we could have had 10 times the population we had then, and we would still have effectively fielded close to what we did at the time; the difference would have been a 99% poverty rate and an unstable political environment which more than likely would have kept us out altogether. In any case there were the Brits, Free French, Soviets, the Indian colonials, etc. all in the war and we didn't to have any more than we did at the time, so this isn't a real point. Manpower we had plenty of on the Allied side, way more than enough.

    That's the origin of those Cold War propaganda narratives in the first place; it's a deliberately misleading fake ploy to demonize white people and the Xian influence; it's meant to undermine and create divisions and disorder. It isn't factual or even partly accurate. Gullible people still believe it and try to sell it.
     
  5. Picaro
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    Mestizos mostly not; hispanics not a real problem. Cubans do well, many PRs do too, as do some Haitians, Columbians, and the other more 'pure' hispanics do fine. Mexicans and Central Americans are demographic nobody likes or wants around, especially other South American and Caribbean ethnic groups. They're despised and hated by every other South American latino cultures; has to do with that wonderful Aztec legacy, the western hemisphere's version of Islam. The more European the culture is, the more acceptable it is.
     
  6. SobieskiSavedEurope
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    Puerto Ricans don't do well on the whole, they are actually poorer than Mexicans are in the U.S.A.
     
  7. Toronado3800
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    OK, lets find some common ground. The OP typed "America" three times in his paragraph so I am focused on America.

    And like in Hollywood is was all positive and wonderful and everybody ended up living in big houses and had lots of fun forever after. It was all good, cuz 'Diversity n Stuff'!. Yes, we've all heard the platitudes and selective narratives. They aren't facts or reality, they're selective half-truths and propaganda, mostly delusional.[/quote]

    I agree. It was not always great. Irish, Italian, Polish immigrants were all the dredge of society at one time and there were white vs white problems where no one more apparently different was to fight against. This is an ongoing problem with humanity I agree.

    Pick whatever time period you want; I referred to mass immigration all across our history; if you think cherrypicking little windows of time will change the results go ahead and give it a shot.[/quote]

    Show me the negative effect of the great Irish immigration or any of them if you must. Maybe I missed it. I will give you that absorbing 10 million unskilled people can be a drag on society if you give me the fact that removing illegals from California farms and Tyson Chicken will help our economy in the long run.

    Mass immigration isn't the same as 'no immigration', or' restricted and selective immigration' , but I can see why you would want to avoid the inconvenient stuff that belies the happy 'inclusiveness' narrative. As for WW II, we could have had 10 times the population we had then, and we would still have effectively fielded close to what we did at the time; the difference would have been a 99% poverty rate and an unstable political environment which more than likely would have kept us out altogether. In any case there were the Brits, Free French, Soviets, the Indian colonials, etc. all in the war and we didn't to have any more than we did at the time, so this isn't a real point. Manpower we had plenty of on the Allied side, way more than enough.[/quote]

    A line must be drawn I agree. 50 million immigrants a year is obviously not permissible. If you think the Russians and Brits had the Germans in 1942 it is a theory but modern Europe is very happy every GI was there at Anzio and Normandy.

    That's the origin of those Cold War propaganda narratives in the first place; it's a deliberately misleading fake ploy to demonize white people and the Xian influence; it's meant to undermine and create divisions and disorder. It isn't factual or even partly accurate. Gullible people still believe it and try to sell it.[/QUOTE]

    OK, let's cut away political talk. Did the Europeans eliminate the Native Americans in what is now the United States or is that propaganda?
     
  8. Picaro
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    I don't live in New York, so I can only go by the hispanics here; Puerto Ricans do better than Mexicans, all non-Meixcan latinos do, Cubans usually do the best. As I mentioned, mestizos are the worst demographic; being 'Hispanic' covers a lot of ground, and not all of them are the same as mestizos from Mexico. My wife is Hispanic, her family's ancestors were among the first to get land grants here; they married other Hispanics, Germans, and Italians, no indians or mestizos; they do as well or better than any white ethnic group does, and so do others like them.
     
  9. SobieskiSavedEurope
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    I agree. It was not always great. Irish, Italian, Polish immigrants were all the dredge of society at one time and there were white vs white problems where no one more apparently different was to fight against. This is an ongoing problem with humanity I agree.

    [/QUOTE]

    Poland, and Ireland were colonized, and oppressed, while Southern Italians were under a new state, which didn't invest in it's more rural Southern regions.

    But, ultimately these White Catholics became part of a core of educated, high income America by the 1970's, or even earlier.
     
  10. SobieskiSavedEurope
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    I live in suburban New York, and no Puerto Ricans aren't doing well, what so ever, a lot of them live off of welfare, and in public housing.

    Actually Puerto Ricans are one of New York's poorest ethnic groups, even behind African Americans.
     

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