Which Holocausts Get Taught?

[Dr Grump]

No, a comment about how many civilian's who died in Iraq is a common Liberal talking point as they don't have really any good excust to attack the war in Iraq and they know it.

Who needs an excuse? The war in Iraq was a futile attempt by a mental midget, who got voted in by other mental midgets, to flex his 110-pound weakling frame in the ME and he got his arse handed to him on a plate.

If you see civilians as just collateral damage, then that says a lot about you.

if you want an education on the ME read a book called The Great War For Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East. You might actually learn something...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The magnitude of Muslim attrocities in India is so great that I grossly understimate their scope simply by attempting to describe them. By the sword of Islam, an entire civilization was destroyed and the number of dead easily number in the millions over several decades. The value of the booty--'jewels and unbored pearls and rubies, shining like sparks or like wine congealed with ice, and emeralds like fresh sprigs of myrtle, and diamonds in size and weight like pomegranates' [Smith Oxford History of India p207]--can never be measured. As a result of [this] fanaticism, thousands of temples which had represented the art of India through a millennium were laid in ruins. We can never know, from looking at India today, what grandeur and beauty she once possessed. [Will Durant] This rich cultural heritage, like the foundations and materials of Hindu temples used to erect Muslim mosques, were highjacked by Islam. Indian mathemeticians conceived algebra and the number zero, which were translated to the Muslim world through its conquests, and then brought to the West through conquest; Islamic civilization now mistakenly recieves credit for these innovations. India before Islam was one of the most advanced civilizations of all time.
According to Prof. K.S. Lal, the author of the Growth of Muslim population in India, the Hindu population decreased by about 80 million between 1000 AD, the year Mahmud Ghazni invaded India and 1525 AD, a year before the battle of Panipat.

One can safely add another 20 million Hindus to this list to account for the number that were killed during the Mughal rule or the rule of the Muslim rulers in the Deccan plateau. By all known accounts of world history, as pointed out by Koenard Elst in his book the Negationism in India, destruction of about 100 million hindus is perhaps the biggest holocaust in the whole world history.
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/history/holocaust.asp

 

[Amanda]

You don't get one without the other.

Try being an unwilling participant in socialist regimes and you'll find out how "voluntary" the are, in short order.

I don't think there have ever been any true-blue socialist states. Many have tried, but never reached the mark....

Yea, imagine how much damage they could have done if they'd been "true blue"...

 

[strollingbones]

how many died in the "great leap" in china....30 million or so?

estimates in russia under stalin reach a staggering number....

i would think the most recent examples would be rwanda....

According to Gérard Prunier, "Because of the chaotic nature of the genocide, the total number of people killed has never been systematically assessed, but most experts believe the total was around 800,000 people. This includes about 750,000 Tutsis and approximately 50,000 politically moderate Hutus who did not support the genocide. ... Only about 130,000 Tutsis survived the massacres." Some, though, have taken issue with Prunier's (and others') estimates, alleging that the number of Tutsis in Rwanda was lower at the outbreak of the genocide than is generally believed. By these measures, "an estimated 500,000 Rwandan Tutsi were killed, or more than three-quarters of their population. ... The number of Hutu killed during the genocide and civil war is even less certain, with estimates ranging from 10,000 to well over 100,000." (Alan J. Kuperman, "Genocide in Rwanda and the Limits of Humanitarian Military Intervention," unpublished paper, 2000; see also Kuperman, "Rwanda in Retrospect," Foreign Affairs, January/February 2000.)

Gendercide Watch: Rwanda


where is the outcry over these and there are many many more?

 

[Charles Stucker]

Most on the board seem to agree that teaching the "Holocaust" (TM) should be state-mandated. It's just history.

So how do the same people feel about the murder of 7 million Ukranians by the Soviets? Should that be taught?

The same way as the murder of several million Poles by the Germans or Armenians by Turks or... the list gets rather long.
It was monstrous.

 

[Alvin]

They should teach what the Soviet union was, so many people today have a hardon for communism, they should study its finest example.

And too many people have no bloody idea what communisim looks like, as a result they see it everywhere.

 

[Oddball]

You don't get one without the other.

Try being an unwilling participant in socialist regimes and you'll find out how "voluntary" the are, in short order.

I don't think there have ever been any true-blue socialist states. Many have tried, but never reached the mark....

Yeah, right.

No wonder all the socialists mewl that socialism can't be judged as a failure, because nobody has done it "right".

A-fucking-mazing.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

They should teach what the Soviet union was, so many people today have a hardon for communism, they should study its finest example.

And too many people have no bloody idea what communisim looks like, as a result they see it everywhere.

Stalin quoting Marx is like Kaiaphas quoting Jesus' 'render unto ceaser' while moonlighting as a tax collector.

 

[Dr Grump]

You don't get one without the other.

Try being an unwilling participant in socialist regimes and you'll find out how "voluntary" the are, in short order.

I don't think there have ever been any true-blue socialist states. Many have tried, but never reached the mark....

Yea, imagine how much damage they could have done if they'd been "true blue"...

Well, if they had done it right, then it would have been fine and dandy...but they didn't...

 

[Dr Grump]

You don't get one without the other.

Try being an unwilling participant in socialist regimes and you'll find out how "voluntary" the are, in short order.

I don't think there have ever been any true-blue socialist states. Many have tried, but never reached the mark....

Yeah, right.

No wonder all the socialists mewl that socialism can't be judged as a failure, because nobody has done it "right".

A-fucking-mazing.

Well it's true. Read Marx or Engels and tell me which so-called Communist or Socialist states matched the criteria of their manifestos...The only ones that came even close are Cuba and Viet Nam...but even they missed quite a few steps.

If I call a dog a cat, is it a cat? Just because some tinpot dictator of a totalitarian state claims they have created a Communist Utopia, it doesn't mean they have.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Well it's true. Read Marx or Engels and tell me which so-called Communist or Socialist states matched the criteria of their manifestos...The only ones that came even close are Cuba and Viet Nam...but even they missed quite a few steps.

If I call a dog a cat, is it a cat? Just because some tinpot dictator of a totalitarian state claims they have created a Communist Utopia, it doesn't mean they have.

Name me a true free market capitalist society.
Not one that gets close.
Not one called free market capitalist.
One that was pure free market capitalist.

Every attempt at socialism has resulted in abject failure.
Socialism does not work beyond the family unit because it works against human nature.
Don't tkae my word for it though, go get some abandoned Pacific Island and create YOUR ideal socialist society and see if it works.
Just Please leave the USA to capitalism

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Well it's true. Read Marx or Engels and tell me which so-called Communist or Socialist states matched the criteria of their manifestos...The only ones that came even close are Cuba and Viet Nam...but even they missed quite a few steps.

If I call a dog a cat, is it a cat? Just because some tinpot dictator of a totalitarian state claims they have created a Communist Utopia, it doesn't mean they have.

Name me a true free market capitalist society.

There are none, for the same reason. A pure free market capitalist society is just as much a pie-in-the-sky utopian ideal as a pure Communist state.

Not one that gets close.
Not one called free market capitalist.
One that was pure free market capitalist.

Every attempt at socialism has resulted in abject failure.

Only once you get enough people invovled to fuck it up for everyone else. Just like capitalism.

Socialism does not work beyond the family unit because it works against human nature.
Don't tkae my word for it though, go get some abandoned Pacific Island and create YOUR ideal socialist society and see if it works.
Just Please leave the USA to capitalism

The problem with your argument here is that human nature fucks up capitalism as well. Look at monopolies, corrupt CEOs, Bernie fucking Madoff. In a pure, government free lassiez faire capitalist society, things like that happen as soon as someone figures out how to milk the system - a natural effect of human nature. In a weird way, I'm arguing for the status quo - our current mixture of capitalism and socialism - for the same reason I argue for partisan politics. When the extremes exist on both sides, the safest path is somewhere in between. And as much as you'd like to claim only the left extreme is in power now, that argument is proven wrong by the ridiculous pathetic excuse for a healthcare bill. If the far left was the only power, you'd see a strong public option, and no payoffs to the insurance companies.

Our society as we know it would collapse if either the far right or the far left got their way, human nature being the way it is.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well it's true. Read Marx or Engels and tell me which so-called Communist or Socialist states matched the criteria of their manifestos...The only ones that came even close are Cuba and Viet Nam...but even they missed quite a few steps.

If I call a dog a cat, is it a cat? Just because some tinpot dictator of a totalitarian state claims they have created a Communist Utopia, it doesn't mean they have.

Name me a true free market capitalist society.

There are none, for the same reason. A pure free market capitalist society is just as much a pie-in-the-sky utopian ideal as a pure Communist state.

Not one that gets close.
Not one called free market capitalist.
One that was pure free market capitalist.

Every attempt at socialism has resulted in abject failure.

Only once you get enough people invovled to fuck it up for everyone else. Just like capitalism.

Socialism does not work beyond the family unit because it works against human nature.
Don't tkae my word for it though, go get some abandoned Pacific Island and create YOUR ideal socialist society and see if it works.
Just Please leave the USA to capitalism

The problem with your argument here is that human nature fucks up capitalism as well. Look at monopolies, corrupt CEOs, Bernie fucking Madoff. In a pure, government free lassiez faire capitalist society, things like that happen as soon as someone figures out how to milk the system - a natural effect of human nature. In a weird way, I'm arguing for the status quo - our current mixture of capitalism and socialism - for the same reason I argue for partisan politics. When the extremes exist on both sides, the safest path is somewhere in between. And as much as you'd like to claim only the left extreme is in power now, that argument is proven wrong by the ridiculous pathetic excuse for a healthcare bill. If the far left was the only power, you'd see a strong public option, and no payoffs to the insurance companies.

Our society as we know it would collapse if either the far right or the far left got their way, human nature being the way it is.

Actually, the only thing human nature does that fucks up free market societies is that doofuses like you always exist to think you're smart enough to improve on nature and try to jam your socialist ideas down everyone's throat.

Monopolies only exist due to government involvement. The more free-market a society is, the more impossible it is for true monopolies to survive. The reason is that as soon as someone figures a way to cheat the system, someone ELSE figures out a way to exploit his weakness and the desire of others NOT to be cheated to undercut him. You can only get away with cheating people if they have no choice but to let you, and only government can produce that.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Name me a true free market capitalist society.

There are none, for the same reason. A pure free market capitalist society is just as much a pie-in-the-sky utopian ideal as a pure Communist state.

Only once you get enough people invovled to fuck it up for everyone else. Just like capitalism.

Socialism does not work beyond the family unit because it works against human nature.
Don't tkae my word for it though, go get some abandoned Pacific Island and create YOUR ideal socialist society and see if it works.
Just Please leave the USA to capitalism

The problem with your argument here is that human nature fucks up capitalism as well. Look at monopolies, corrupt CEOs, Bernie fucking Madoff. In a pure, government free lassiez faire capitalist society, things like that happen as soon as someone figures out how to milk the system - a natural effect of human nature. In a weird way, I'm arguing for the status quo - our current mixture of capitalism and socialism - for the same reason I argue for partisan politics. When the extremes exist on both sides, the safest path is somewhere in between. And as much as you'd like to claim only the left extreme is in power now, that argument is proven wrong by the ridiculous pathetic excuse for a healthcare bill. If the far left was the only power, you'd see a strong public option, and no payoffs to the insurance companies.

Our society as we know it would collapse if either the far right or the far left got their way, human nature being the way it is.

Actually, the only thing human nature does that fucks up free market societies is that doofuses like you always exist to think you're smart enough to improve on nature and try to jam your socialist ideas down everyone's throat.

Monopolies only exist due to government involvement. The more free-market a society is, the more impossible it is for true monopolies to survive. The reason is that as soon as someone figures a way to cheat the system, someone ELSE figures out a way to exploit his weakness and the desire of others NOT to be cheated to undercut him.

Do you know why our government is as bloated as it is?
If you think it's because of "the socialists", you've been blinded by the right. Our government is as bloated as it is because it didn't take very long before people realized money could buy votes. Our government was horribly corrupt long before Karl Marx had even been born.

You can only get away with cheating people if they have no choice but to let you, and only government can produce that.

Then why can't I choose which Cable provider I want. I only have the choice of one - and that's not because of the government, that's because of all the cable companies joining together to fix their prices.

Absolute free market obsessives are just as pie-in-the-sky idealists as socialists. Both are blind to the actual process.

 

[Dr Grump]

Name me a true free market capitalist society.
Not one that gets close.
Not one called free market capitalist.
One that was pure free market capitalist.

Every attempt at socialism has resulted in abject failure.
Socialism does not work beyond the family unit because it works against human nature.
Don't tkae my word for it though, go get some abandoned Pacific Island and create YOUR ideal socialist society and see if it works.
Just Please leave the USA to capitalism

We actually agree - neither system works.

And I do live on a Pacific Island (well, did until I moved to Oz) and it was a great place to live. Much more socialist than the US, but mainly made up of capitalism..

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are none, for the same reason. A pure free market capitalist society is just as much a pie-in-the-sky utopian ideal as a pure Communist state.

Only once you get enough people invovled to fuck it up for everyone else. Just like capitalism.


The problem with your argument here is that human nature fucks up capitalism as well. Look at monopolies, corrupt CEOs, Bernie fucking Madoff. In a pure, government free lassiez faire capitalist society, things like that happen as soon as someone figures out how to milk the system - a natural effect of human nature. In a weird way, I'm arguing for the status quo - our current mixture of capitalism and socialism - for the same reason I argue for partisan politics. When the extremes exist on both sides, the safest path is somewhere in between. And as much as you'd like to claim only the left extreme is in power now, that argument is proven wrong by the ridiculous pathetic excuse for a healthcare bill. If the far left was the only power, you'd see a strong public option, and no payoffs to the insurance companies.

Our society as we know it would collapse if either the far right or the far left got their way, human nature being the way it is.

Actually, the only thing human nature does that fucks up free market societies is that doofuses like you always exist to think you're smart enough to improve on nature and try to jam your socialist ideas down everyone's throat.

Monopolies only exist due to government involvement. The more free-market a society is, the more impossible it is for true monopolies to survive. The reason is that as soon as someone figures a way to cheat the system, someone ELSE figures out a way to exploit his weakness and the desire of others NOT to be cheated to undercut him.

Do you know why our government is as bloated as it is?
If you think it's because of "the socialists", you've been blinded by the right. Our government is as bloated as it is because it didn't take very long before people realized money could buy votes. Our government was horribly corrupt long before Karl Marx had even been born.

You can only get away with cheating people if they have no choice but to let you, and only government can produce that.

Then why can't I choose which Cable provider I want. I only have the choice of one - and that's not because of the government, that's because of all the cable companies joining together to fix their prices.

Absolute free market obsessives are just as pie-in-the-sky idealists as socialists. Both are blind to the actual process.

I hate to tell you this, Einstein, but your lack of cable provider choice IS due to government regulation, in this case likely your local government, which requires cable companies to negotiate with them for the right to provide services there. My area was deregulated a couple of years ago, and choices proliferated like bunnies on aphrodisiacs.

 

[Toronado3800]

Then why can't I choose which Cable provider I want. I only have the choice of one - and that's not because of the government, that's because of all the cable companies joining together to fix their prices.

There was an old stick in the mud idea a company would have to lay cable to be a cable provider. Just like a company would have to lay pipe to be a water provider. To prevent a maze of competing tunnels under your yard cities picked one company. Socialist or Capitalist, I dunno.

Back on topic. I love the list of genocides. They need taught left, right, every day. Hatred is a terrible thing and if folks realize how many times humans have gotten out of hand maybe racism would get nipped in the bud a little quicker.

 

[garyd]

gump you are in did an idiot. The point was simply this, if you reference every damn battle as attempted genocide you render the term essentailly meaningless and reduce it to just another one of the clubs leftist nitwits use to attempt to brow beat their opponents into submission. Oh wait I forgot you are a leftist nitwit which goe a long way to explaining why you always miss the point. Especially those made by people who actually give a damn about reality and the human beings leftist swine always demean by there every action and attitude.

Oh and gump the main reason true communism has never been tried is that you can't get there from here using human beings as the basic building block of the system. Human beings simply don't work that way. You'll always wind up stoping at the point of the dictatorship of the proletariat which in point of fact is almost always rule by either an oligarchical clique as in the former Soviet Union of by one horses rear end as in Maoist China Fidels Cuba or Kim Jong Ill's North Korea. And Frankly there are no more despostic regimes on the face of the earth than those.

One last thing ole dipstick. Do you know what the difference between a socialist and a communist is? A socilaist isn't gullible enough to believe that any government that has the necessary power and is invasive enough of it's subjects private lives to make even a half hearted attempt at from each according to his means to each accorsing to his needs is ever going to go away of its own accord.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Actually, the only thing human nature does that fucks up free market societies is that doofuses like you always exist to think you're smart enough to improve on nature and try to jam your socialist ideas down everyone's throat.

Monopolies only exist due to government involvement. The more free-market a society is, the more impossible it is for true monopolies to survive. The reason is that as soon as someone figures a way to cheat the system, someone ELSE figures out a way to exploit his weakness and the desire of others NOT to be cheated to undercut him.

Do you know why our government is as bloated as it is?
If you think it's because of "the socialists", you've been blinded by the right. Our government is as bloated as it is because it didn't take very long before people realized money could buy votes. Our government was horribly corrupt long before Karl Marx had even been born.

You can only get away with cheating people if they have no choice but to let you, and only government can produce that.

Then why can't I choose which Cable provider I want. I only have the choice of one - and that's not because of the government, that's because of all the cable companies joining together to fix their prices.

Absolute free market obsessives are just as pie-in-the-sky idealists as socialists. Both are blind to the actual process.

I hate to tell you this, Einstein, but your lack of cable provider choice IS due to government regulation, in this case likely your local government, which requires cable companies to negotiate with them for the right to provide services there. My area was deregulated a couple of years ago, and choices proliferated like bunnies on aphrodisiacs.

I stand corrected, you are right. But do you know why those "regulations" exist? They were lobbied for, and gotten by Time Warner and Comcast, who used their money to, in effect, create a monopoly for themselves. This isn't about liberal socialists who are regulating cable - its about cable companies fixing the laws to create a monopoly for themselves.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Then why can't I choose which Cable provider I want. I only have the choice of one - and that's not because of the government, that's because of all the cable companies joining together to fix their prices.

There was an old stick in the mud idea a company would have to lay cable to be a cable provider. Just like a company would have to lay pipe to be a water provider. To prevent a maze of competing tunnels under your yard cities picked one company. Socialist or Capitalist, I dunno.

Oh, its capitalism, at its best. At least when Capitalism is like it is in this country - if you have enough money, you can make your own laws.

Back on topic. I love the list of genocides. They need taught left, right, every day. Hatred is a terrible thing and if folks realize how many times humans have gotten out of hand maybe racism would get nipped in the bud a little quicker.

I agree completely.