Which country has a model capitalistic healthcare system?

[sablelaw]

Maybe you have a time machine that can take you back 50 years ago for health care. I am 61 years old, and I can tell you that I don't want to go back to those times. Some of the physical and psychiatric medicine practiced was pretty barbaric. It was the beginning of health insurance being offered. When I was born, there was a Polio epidemic.

You might want to factor in the cost to all of us to have so many people presently can't get health insurance, and who end up using hospital emergency rooms for regular medical care when they or their children get sick or injured. We all pay for this. Why not pay for wellness care & be proactive instead of footing this huge bill.

I believe that the Affordable Care Act is a step in the right direction. Of course, there has been an unrelenting and well financed attack upon it since it was enacted.

Personally, I work two jobs which I would not have nor would I have health insurance and proper care if it was not for a Medicaid program in Pennsylvania called Medical Assistance Worker's Disability Insurance. I pay an affordable premium each month, and have access to good physical, mental and wellness healthcare. During my lifetime, I have gone from paying for health insurance for my family and employees to paying for just myself to not being able to afford to pay for health insurance at all for 5 years.

I believe it is disingenuous to blame Obama and The Affordable Health Care Act for increases in health insurance premiums as it appears that the Act is already reducing the amount of increase. I am also not too worried about the health insurance industry, as the companies I am familiar with, have made huge profits.

On a regular basis I meet and deal with people for whom, health insurance would make a major difference in the quality of their lives, and the contributions that they can make to our society.

Thank you for takng th time to read this. Maybe other posters can share their stories and views?

 

[eflatminor]

Maybe you have a time machine that can take you back 50 years ago for health care. I am 61 years old, and I can tell you that I don't want to go back to those times. Some of the physical and psychiatric medicine practiced was pretty barbaric.

How could that be possible? The FDA existed well before you were born. My goodness, you mean the government failed to prevent every instance of malpractice...color me shocked. Besides, it has been TECHNOLOGY, not government meddling that has progressed medicine to where it is today.

It was the beginning of health insurance being offered.

Bullshit. Accident and health insurance date back to the 1860s in America (well prior to that in Europe). The fee for service model worked. It kept innovation high and prices low.

When I was born, there was a Polio epidemic.

Non sequitur. There are epidemics today.

You might want to factor in the cost to all of us to have so many people presently can't get health insurance, and who end up using hospital emergency rooms for regular medical care when they or their children get sick or injured. We all pay for this.

Wrong. Some of us are FORCED to pay for it. Big frickin' difference. Just because you have one bad law does not mean we need another one. A voluntary approach worked for centuries and in the process, created the world's finest healthcare market.

Why not pay for wellness care & be proactive instead of footing this huge bill?

Because theft is wrong.

I believe that the Affordable Care Act is a step in the right direction.

Of course you do.

Of course, there has been an unrelenting and well financed attack upon it since it was enacted.

Hell yes.

Personally, I work two jobs which I would not have nor would I have health insurance and proper care if it was not for a Medicaid program in Pennsylvania called Medical Assistance Worker's Disability Insurance. I pay an affordable premium each month, and have access to good physical, mental and wellness healthcare. During my lifetime, I have gone from paying for health insurance for my family and employees to paying for just myself to not being able to afford to pay for health insurance at all for 5 years.

State program. Forcing charity from you neighbors...how honorable of you.

I believe it is disingenuous to blame Obama and The Affordable Health Care Act for increases in health insurance premiums as it appears that the Act is already reducing the amount of increase.

Attempting to provide proof of your claim by stating the unprovable is rather slippery of you. Rising costs are due to both state and federal government meddling. Where government meddles most (like education and healthcare), costs always outpace the overall rate of inflation. Always.

I am also not too worried about the health insurance industry, as the companies I am familiar with, have made huge profits.

Bullshit. Healthcare insurance companies have among the LOWEST profit margins of any major industry. Your beloved Apple can exceed 20% easily, while health insurance rarely tops 3-4%. The total premiums involved are large of course, because the cost of medicine is skyrocketing....again, the fault of government meddling. When people don't pay for a product or service directly, they come to expect everything without questioning the cost. Government meddling brings about this reality.

On a regular basis I meet and deal with people for whom, health insurance would make a major difference in the quality of their lives, and the contributions that they can make to our society.

Then vote for those that will allow the market for medicine to thrive through competition, innovation and customer service. Repeal the stupid law that requires companies to provide health insurance (hey, how about milk too?!). Tell your state DOI to allow carriers to offer bare bones 'emergency-only' policies to keep costs down (sadly, no coverage for drug rehab or Viagra). Tell them to allow insurers to price to the exposure so the healthier you are, the less you pay. Tell the feds stay the hell out of the medicine and allow the market to work.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

Five Capitalist Democracies & How They Do It | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

Interviews - Interviews | Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[Toronado3800]

Great. So does Mexico or any turd country have a real free market system that worksish?

Still, beware. I am looking for a real capitalist system that will throw you out on your sick bleeding rear if u can't pay.

 

[dblack]

Great. So does Mexico or any turd country have a real free market system that worksish?

Still, beware. I am looking for a real capitalist system that will throw you out on your sick bleeding rear if u can't pay.

A capitalist system doesn't do that, people do. Keeping the government out of our economic decisions, out of our health care, is not synonymous with social Darwinism, and it doesn't imply, or even encourage people to turn their backs on others. A free nation lets people decide for themselves who they want to help, how much they want to help them and under what circumstances. It leaves us free to be the kind of society we want to be - compassionate and supportive of those in need, or cruel and unforgiving.

 

[Toronado3800]

Great. So does Mexico or any turd country have a real free market system that worksish?

Still, beware. I am looking for a real capitalist system that will throw you out on your sick bleeding rear if u can't pay.

A capitalist system doesn't do that, people do. Keeping the government out of our economic decisions, out of our health care, is not synonymous with social Darwinism, and it doesn't imply, or even encourage people to turn their backs on others. A free nation lets people decide for themselves who they want to help, how much they want to help them and under what circumstances. It leaves us free to be the kind of society we want to be - compassionate and supportive of those in need, or cruel and unforgiving.

Interesting.

So in a capitalist system you would volunteer to pay for chemo for the uninsured? Would I? Mitt perhaps? He is dim but seems a nice man.

 

[Sallow]

Which country has a model capitalistic healthcare system?

The United State of America, 1776 to 1965.

You liked the healthcare of 1776?

Seriously?

 

[Toronado3800]

I just can not see expecting hospitals to care for the ill and poor w/o passing that cost on to those who can pay. I don't want to show up at the hospital and find out my surgery costs 3 times what yours does because I can afford it either.

 

[gwennie]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The best system in my opinion would be for the majority of people to have tax free health savings accounts with catastrophic policies because that's all most of us need. We don't need insurance plans that cover 80% of every doctor's visit for a simple sniffle. When something major does happen we're covered for the potential five, six, or seven figure costs involved and can more than likely handle taking a hit of a few thousand dollars to meet the deductible. This introduces a moniker of capitalism back into the equation, which is sorely missing right now, and over the long run would bring down the cost of health care.

Actually, no, most single people and families cannot handle paying $3k out of pocket for medical expenses. And that's certainly going to be the case seeing as how basics are more expensive now than they were 4 years ago......gas prices have skyrocketed along with energy costs, food prices have increased dramatically, etc....all that stuff costs money as well. For those who are making $75k or more, then yes they probably can afford to cover $3k in medical costs throughout the year but for the vast majority who are making anywhere between $35-74k they can't.

 

[gwennie]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

NONE.

That's why its called a MODEL.

In fact, there is no MODEL capitalist ANYTHING in reality. The very precise reason right wingies demand a MODEL capitalist economy is because it CANNOT EXIST IN NATURE. That way, they can ALWAYS demand less taxes and ALWAYS less regulation, no matter how low each of those are.

As opposed to continuing to raise taxes to astronomical levels so the working people can fork over about 40% of their paycheck to support programs that they will never benefit from, and much of the time doesn't fix the problem anyway? Sorry, but barring SS and programs that help the children/vets/disabled, no has the right to take money that I make and put it toward people who refuse to work or cheat the system or use generational welfare as a way to live their life. There are systems that would work, but the dems refuse to consider anything that doesn't feed their base......they'd lose votes otherwise.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Sick Around the World
Can the U.S. learn anything from the rest of the world about how to run a health care system?Introduction Sick Around The World | FRONTLINE | PBS


How Five Capitalist Democracies Do It

The show is a few years ago, but there is lots of info to be gained.

In Sick Around the World, FRONTLINE teams up with veteran Washington Post foreign correspondent T.R. Reid to find out how five other capitalist democracies -- the United Kingdom, Japan, Germany, Taiwan and Switzerland -- deliver health care, and what the United States might learn from their successes and their failures.

 

[Kimura]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

Obamacare was actually written by the health insurance lobby. They've managed to create a captive marketplace using the government as an enforcement arm.

Yeah, the uninsured do pay out-of-pocket at clinics. It gets dicey when people need surgery or emergency medical care. Sixty two percent of all bankruptcies in this country are related to medical bills and expenses. This simply doesn't happen in any other industrialized countries.

 

[Oddball]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

Obamacare was actually written by the health insurance lobby. They've managed to create a captive marketplace using the government as an enforcement arm.

Well, DUUUUH!

Yeah, the uninsured do pay out-of-pocket at clinics. It gets dicey when people need surgery or emergency medical care. Sixty two percent of all bankruptcies in this country are related to medical bills and expenses. This simply doesn't happen in any other industrialized countries.

Worn out statistics an platitudes don't change the fact that it's not the federal gubmint's role to run a centralized medical monopoly.

 

[Kimura]

The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

Obamacare was actually written by the health insurance lobby. They've managed to create a captive marketplace using the government as an enforcement arm.

Well, DUUUUH!

Yeah, the uninsured do pay out-of-pocket at clinics. It gets dicey when people need surgery or emergency medical care. Sixty two percent of all bankruptcies in this country are related to medical bills and expenses. This simply doesn't happen in any other industrialized countries.

Worn out statistics an platitudes don't change the fact that it's not the federal gubmint's role to run a centralized medical monopoly.

I never said it was. So what should the indigent, poor and uninsured do?

 

[Oddball]

The poor and indigent already qualify for Medicaid and a slew of other state programs and private charities.

 

[koshergrl]

I doubt any system is perfect but ours is anti-patient and pro-big business. We get crappy care and pay more for it than many other countries.

Yep. Shame we didn't change that when we had the chance.

The big business whose dick we are being forced to suck is...insurance companies.

 

[Kimura]

The poor and indigent already qualify for Medicaid and a slew of other state programs and private charities.

You basically have to be indigent to qualify for Medicaid. If you're part of the lower class or even the middle class, and you aren't covered with basic insurance, you're basically screwed. Charity is great but their resources are finite. For example, I don't know of any charities that would foot the entire bill for chemotherapy and/or an entire round of cancer treatment.

 

[Oddball]

The poor and indigent already qualify for Medicaid and a slew of other state programs and private charities.

You basically have to be indigent to qualify for Medicaid. If you're part of the lower class or even the middle class, and you aren't covered with basic insurance, you're basically screwed. Charity is great but their resources are finite. For example, I don't know of any charities that would foot the entire bill for chemotherapy and/or an entire round of cancer treatment.

Well, you asked about the poor and the indigent and I told you...That you don't know of charities doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Nobody (read: NOBODY) has the right to have a third party pay their bills.

 

[AquaAthena]

Just curious who we should model ourselves after.


America in the past is an answer but beware if you talk about the previous fifty years of our system that was some weird backend redistribution socialist network where freeloaders had the opportunity to be treated and I (maybe you also) paid for it.

The previous 50 years have had Medicare/Medicaid screwing with the marketplace....Speaking of freeloaders.

I also notice that since the passage of Obolshevikcare, the focus from the left has shifted from the pooooor "50 million uninsured" to calling everyone who doesn't have insurance as "freeloaders"...Never mind the fact that the uninsured pay for medical care out-of-pocket at urgent care clinics every day of the week.

By

weird backend redistribution socialist network

do you mean the REPUBLICAN/MITTENS endorsed "go to the ER and wait" SOCIALISTIC system of health care? Why should I have to pay for your health care? Why should I have to pay for illegals' healthcare?

I've always said it was health care for lazy rw freeloaders. Pay for your own healthcare. And, don't bother telling me all about how YOU pay for your own because somebody out there is NOT paying for their own and ObamaCare would be a good start to ending that. (Yes, that's right - some of you freeloaders will slip through.)

Gotta love the hypocrisy of you rw's. In the "atlas shrugged" thread

http://www.usmessageboard.com/media...face-of-american-politics-62.html#post6240483

rw's are saying how Ayn Rand was right to take advantage of Medicare and Soc Sec because SHE PAID INTO IT AND WAS ENTITLED TO IT.

You might want to check out the difference between SS, Medicare and Medicaid. Or not. I know how you prize your ignorance so that's your decision.

First of all, I am not aware of Ayn Rand being on Medicare? If you are, then please post that link.

She did, for 7 or 8 years, receive her refund from the Social Security program. Monies she was forced to pay into the system, to help others, for all her working years. She was merely being reimbursed. Smart lady.

 

[Kimura]

The poor and indigent already qualify for Medicaid and a slew of other state programs and private charities.

You basically have to be indigent to qualify for Medicaid. If you're part of the lower class or even the middle class, and you aren't covered with basic insurance, you're basically screwed. Charity is great but their resources are finite. For example, I don't know of any charities that would foot the entire bill for chemotherapy and/or an entire round of cancer treatment.

Well, you asked about the poor and the indigent and I told you...That you don't know of charities doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Nobody (read: NOBODY) has the right to have a third party pay their bills.

I personally know one person that was ruined because of medical bills (Chapter 7). This person tried to get charity care from the hospital but didn't qualify. The best they could do was lower the bill by around two thousand dollars. By the way, this was a twenty five thousand dollar medical bill when all was said and done. Also, this person wasn't broke, his employer sandbagged his insurance and he wasn't covered for like two years.

Technically, if you have insurance through your employer or you pay for your own plan, wouldn't the insurance company paying out the claim be a third party? Just sayin'....