Where Was God?

[NATO AIR]

i thought this was interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10safire.html?oref=login&hp

Where Was God?
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: January 10, 2005

In the aftermath of a cataclysm, with pictures of parents sobbing over dead infants driven into human consciousness around the globe, faith-shaking questions arise: Where was God? Why does a good and all-powerful deity permit such evil and grief to fall on so many thousands of innocents? What did these people do to deserve such suffering?

After a similar natural disaster wiped out tens of thousands of lives in Lisbon in the 18th century, the philosopher Voltaire wrote "Candide," savagely satirizing optimists who still found comfort and hope in God. After last month's Indian Ocean tsunami, the same anguished questioning is in the minds of millions of religious believers.

Turn to the Book of Job in the Hebrew Bible. It was written some 2,500 years ago during what must have been a crisis of faith. The covenant with Abraham - worship the one God, and his people would be protected - didn't seem to be working. The good died young, the wicked prospered; where was the promised justice?

The poet-priest who wrote this book began with a dialogue between God and the Satan, then a kind of prosecuting angel. When God pointed to "my servant Job" as most upright and devout, the Satan suggested Job worshipped God only because he had been given power and riches. On a bet that Job would stay faithful, God let the angel take the good man's possessions, kill his children and afflict him with loathsome boils.

The first point the Book of Job made was that suffering is not evidence of sin. When Job's friends said that he must have done something awful to deserve such misery, the reader knows that is false. Job's suffering was a test of his faith: even as he grew angry with God for being unjust - wishing he could sue him in a court of law - he never abandoned his belief.

And did this righteous Gentile get furious: "Damn the day that I was born!" Forget the so-called "patience of Job"; that legend is blown away by the shockingly irreverent biblical narrative. Job's famous expression of meek acceptance in the 1611 King James Version - "though he slay me, yet will I trust in him" - was a blatant misreading by nervous translators. Modern scholarship offers a much different translation: "He may slay me, I'll not quaver."

The point of Job's gutsy defiance of God's injustice - right there in the Bible - is that it is not blasphemous to challenge the highest authority when it inflicts a moral wrong. (I titled a book on this "The First Dissident.") Indeed, Job's demand that his unseen adversary show up at a trial with a written indictment gets an unexpected reaction: in a thunderous theophany, God appears before the startled man with the longest and most beautifully poetic speech attributed directly to him in Scripture.

Frankly, God's voice "out of the whirlwind" carries a message not all that satisfying to those wondering about moral mismanagement. Virginia Woolf wrote in her journal "I read the Book of Job last night - I don't think God comes well out of it."

The powerful voice demands of puny Man: "Where were you when I laid the Earth's foundations?" Summoning an image of the mythic sea-monster symbolizing Chaos, God asks, "Canst thou draw out Leviathan with a hook?" The poet-priest's point, I think, is that God is occupied bringing light to darkness, imposing physical order on chaos, and leaves his human creations free to work out moral justice on their own.

Job's moral outrage caused God to appear, thereby demonstrating that the sufferer who believes is never alone. Job abruptly stops complaining, and - in a prosaic happy ending that strikes me as tacked on by other sages so as to get the troublesome book accepted in the Hebrew canon - he is rewarded. (Christianity promises to rectify earthly injustice in an afterlife.)

Job's lessons for today:

(1) Victims of this cataclysm in no way "deserved" a fate inflicted by the Leviathanic force of nature.

(2) Questioning God's inscrutable ways has its exemplar in the Bible and need not undermine faith.

(3) Humanity's obligation to ameliorate injustice on earth is being expressed in a surge of generosity that refutes Voltaire's cynicism.

E-mail: [email protected]

 

[Arabian]

Qur'an
The Cow (Baqarah) 2

We shall test you with a bit of fear and hunger, plus a shortage of wealth and souls and produce. Announce such to patient people (155)

The whole answer comes from this verse
Allah examine each one in this life and the one who always keep in touch with Allah in all this examinations and keep in thanking Allah cause he don’t know what is better for him
No ones know
Qur'an surat Ibrahim (Abraham) 14
So your Lord announced: " If you act grateful, I shall give you even more, while if you are thankless, then My torment will be severe." (7)he will be rewarded,,,

and if there is no bad their won't be good
I wanna ask,, when you know your true friends and the people who care about you??

 

[dilloduck]

Qur'an
The Cow (Baqarah) 2

We shall test you with a bit of fear and hunger, plus a shortage of wealth and souls and produce. Announce such to patient people (155)

The whole answer comes from this verse
Allah examine each one in this life and the one who always keep in touch with Allah in all this examinations and keep in thanking Allah cause he don’t know what is better for him
No ones know
Qur'an surat Ibrahim (Abraham) 14
So your Lord announced: " If you act grateful, I shall give you even more, while if you are thankless, then My torment will be severe." (7)he will be rewarded,,,

and if there is no bad their won't be good
I wanna ask,, when you know your true friends and the people who care about you??

I'm confused---could you try to paraphrase this or explain what you mean ??

 

[no1tovote4]

Qur'an
The Cow (Baqarah) 2

We shall test you with a bit of fear and hunger, plus a shortage of wealth and souls and produce. Announce such to patient people (155)

The whole answer comes from this verse
Allah examine each one in this life and the one who always keep in touch with Allah in all this examinations and keep in thanking Allah cause he don’t know what is better for him
No ones know
Qur'an surat Ibrahim (Abraham) 14
So your Lord announced: " If you act grateful, I shall give you even more, while if you are thankless, then My torment will be severe." (7)he will be rewarded,,,

and if there is no bad their won't be good
I wanna ask,, when you know your true friends and the people who care about you??

Basically it appears that the verse is saying what Job's lesson was saying. God is inscrutable. That it is important to thank Allah for what you have rather than expect from him what you don't have.

It also says that God awards those that are thankful, but those that take it for granted will be punished.

I think you just posted the short Islamic version of the article above.

 

[Joz]

Why is it God's fault?

When faced with a tragedy such as this, or any for that matter, why does God get the blame? It reallly depends whether you believe in 'good' AND 'evil'. You really can't have one without the other.
Since my son died, God & I haven't been on the best of terms. But that's between Him & me. But, when sin entered the world, certain events were set in motion; and Satan became the ruler of the world. So we have tragedies, sickness, death, uncertainty, problems...... God cannot interfere. He has to let this world 'run it's course' until He returns to claim His faithful. It's just that simple.

 

[no1tovote4]

Why is it God's fault?

When faced with a tragedy such as this, or any for that matter, why does God get the blame? It reallly depends whether you believe in 'good' AND 'evil'. You really can't have one without the other.
Since my son died, God & I haven't been on the best of terms. But that's between Him & me. But, when sin entered the world, certain events were set in motion; and Satan became the ruler of the world. So we have tragedies, sickness, death, uncertainty, problems...... God cannot interfere. He has to let this world 'run it's course' until He returns to claim His faithful. It's just that simple.

I don't necessarily think that an earthquake can be considered "evil". To me that is something that happens. We know about them and sometimes cannot avoid the damage but it was from no forethought and therefore cannot be evil.

 

[no1tovote4]

Oh and good to see ya Joz, we missed you.

 

[MissileMan]

What I have trouble understanding is this. You say God is too busy with the "big picture" to worry about a few thousand people dying in a tsunami, but he has time enough to pass out "tests of faith" to individuals...seems a contradiction to me.

 

[Joz]

Oh and good to see ya Joz, we missed you.

Wow, thank you.

 

[Joz]

I don't necessarily think that an earthquake can be considered "evil". To me that is something that happens. We know about them and sometimes cannot avoid the damage but it was from no forethought and therefore cannot be evil.

How can you not call it evil? The same as floods, tornados, hurricanes, car accidents, disease. Sure they just 'happen' but why?

 

[no1tovote4]

How can you not call it evil? The same as floods, tornados, hurricanes, car accidents, disease. Sure they just 'happen' but why?

The Earth was set in motion long ago. This was a product of how it was made, not of any conscience decision of an eternal being to kill tens of thousands of people.

We have learned many different things since then. We can see the Hurricane when it is coming and warn people, etc. This Tsunami was caused by just such an event. They knew there was a possibility of a Tsunami and some governments chose not to warn anybody, that was evil. The Tsunami happened, like an avalanche or other natural action. What would be evil is if we ignored their need and gave no action to save the lives of those who lived through the disaster, not the Earthquake itself. We can use this to create a safer life for people in the way of such waves by creating warning systems, safer buildings that will survive Earthquake and Tsunami damage, etc. If we ignore this and do not work to save later lives our action will then be evil as well.

The Tsunami was a terrible disaster but evil can only happen from a decision.

 

[5stringJeff]

How can you not call it evil? The same as floods, tornados, hurricanes, car accidents, disease. Sure they just 'happen' but why?

I tend to agree with no1. An earthquake (and/or a tsunami) is a morally neutral event. The outcome of those events certainly caused suffering. Why do they happen? Because God created the world in such a way that plates shift, causing earthquakes, and massive waves can be created by massive earthquakes, causing tsunamis. Of course, God also created the world to be exactly the right distance away from the sun to sustain life, created the moon to be just the right mass and distance away as to effect tides the way they do, etc. etc.

 

[5stringJeff]

Basically it appears that the verse is saying what Job's lesson was saying. God is inscrutable. That it is important to thank Allah for what you have rather than expect from him what you don't have.

It also says that God awards those that are thankful, but those that take it for granted will be punished.

I think you just posted the short Islamic version of the article above.

I don't think it's that God is inscrutable (or unknowable). It's that God is God. Job presents his complaints before God, and God replies, basically saying 'Who are you? Do you really know how this all works, outside of your little corner of the universe?' And that's the view that most of us have - our little corner of the universe. But God's view is infinite. He understands the second-, third-, and thousandth-order effects of the earthquake and incurring tsunami.

 

[no1tovote4]

I don't think it's that God is inscrutable (or unknowable). It's that God is God. Job presents his complaints before God, and God replies, basically saying 'Who are you? Do you really know how this all works, outside of your little corner of the universe?' And that's the view that most of us have - our little corner of the universe. But God's view is infinite. He understands the second-, third-, and thousandth-order effects of the earthquake and incurring tsunami.

And it is inscrutable. Basically it says that we little people cannot possibly understand the big picture while God can.

 

[Joz]

First, God did NOT create the world which we are so familiar with. Depends if you believe the creation story. God created the world perfect and deemed the Garden of Eden as 'home' for Adam & Eve. After they sinned, they were no longer permitted inside the Garden. Once sin entered the world it began to deteriorate and it still doing so.

 

[no1tovote4]

First, God did NOT create the world which we are so familiar with. Depends if you believe the creation story. God created the world perfect and deemed the Garden of Eden as 'home' for Adam & Eve. After they sinned, they were no longer permitted inside the Garden. Once sin entered the world it began to deteriorate and it still doing so.

I do not have the Christian perspective. I understand the Creation story as I was raised in a Fundamental Christian house but am not a Christian personally.

However the change effected the landscape, hills and mountains were formed. This would be the very time that the Plate Techtonics theory began. This set into motion the events of today, therefore the Earthquake was caused by the first sin, and is a consequence of human action. It in itself is not evil but an event that is tragic.

 

[Joz]

What I have trouble understanding is this. You say God is too busy with the "big picture" to worry about a few thousand people dying in a tsunami, but he has time enough to pass out "tests of faith" to individuals...seems a contradiction to me.

That's not what I said.

And what "tests of faith" are you referring to?

 

[5stringJeff]

And it is inscrutable. Basically it says that we little people cannot possibly understand the big picture while God can.

I think we are getting caught up in the terminology. I agree that our minds our finite. I'm just saying that God is not 100% unknowable. I do believe, however, that God has revealed enough to mankind that we know how He operates, who He is, etc.

 

[no1tovote4]

I think we are getting caught up in the terminology. I agree that our minds our finite. I'm just saying that God is not 100% unknowable. I do believe, however, that God has revealed enough to mankind that we know how He operates, who He is, etc.

Yeah, it is just semantics.

 

[MissileMan]

That's not what I said.

And what "tests of faith" are you referring to?

Individual hardships like one's baby getting sick and dying.