Where should the line be drawn on abortion?

[Noomi]

There are no babies killed during abortion.

Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?

They carry fetuses.

 

[Lumpy 1]

There are no babies killed during abortion.

Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?

They carry fetuses.

fetus,

term used to describe the unborn offspring in the uterus of vertebrate animals after the embryonic stage (see embryo). In humans, the fetal stage begins seven to eight weeks after fertilization of the egg, when the embryo assumes the basic shape of the newborn and all the organs are present. This stage continues until birth. The fetus is protected by a sac of amniotic fluid that also enables movement to occur. The placenta and umbilical cord are the sources of oxygen and nutrients and the means of waste elimination.

During the fetal stage, the body grows larger, the proportions of the features are refined, and organ development is completed. During the seventh and eighth weeks, the body grows more erect, the chest area develops, and the face begins to acquire a human look. In the third month, facial features continue to develop, nails form, ossification centers develop in bones, the sex of the unborn can be determined, and the fetus is capable of responding to outside stimulation. During the second trimester (fourth to sixth months), distinctive facial features develop, the fetal heartbeat can be detected, and fetal quickening (movements) can be felt externally. In the third trimester (the seventh to ninth months), the body proportions, except for the somewhat large head, are established, the skin becomes smoother, and the organs develop sufficiently for the newborn to function on its own.

If the fetus is expelled before 36 weeks of gestation are completed, it often can survive outside the womb, but artificial assistance, such as intravenous feedings and strict maintainance of the ambient temperature, may be needed during the remainder of its normal developmental period. Such births are called premature. Fetuses expelled before that period are not viable and are termed either a miscarriage or an abortion. A dead fetus delivered in the third trimester is termed stillborn.

Fetus | Learn everything there is to know about Fetus at Reference.com

 

[FA_Q2]

There are no babies killed during abortion.

Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?

They carry fetuses.

Call it what you will, playing a semantic game does not change the fact that a baby is killed during an abortion. Whatever term you use does not change the fact that you are ending the existence of a unique and growing human. Call it a baby or fetus, a rose is still a rose.

 

[PixieStix]

Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?

They carry fetuses.

Call it what you will, playing a semantic game does not change the fact that a baby is killed during an abortion. Whatever term you use does not change the fact that you are ending the existence of a unique and growing human. Call it a baby or fetus, a rose is still a rose.

Yeah, if a fetus wasn't something that is alive and viable, then why is there fetology
[fētol′əjē]
Etymology: L, fetus + Gk, logos, science
the branch of medicine that is concerned with the fetus in utero, including the diagnosis of congenital anomalies, the prevention of teratogenic influences, and the treatment of certain disorders. Also called embryatrics.

 

[JagOnDaRoad]

Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?

They carry fetuses.

fetus,

term used to describe the unborn offspring in the uterus of vertebrate animals after the embryonic stage (see embryo). In humans, the fetal stage begins seven to eight weeks after fertilization of the egg, when the embryo assumes the basic shape of the newborn and all the organs are present. This stage continues until birth. The fetus is protected by a sac of amniotic fluid that also enables movement to occur. The placenta and umbilical cord are the sources of oxygen and nutrients and the means of waste elimination.

During the fetal stage, the body grows larger, the proportions of the features are refined, and organ development is completed. During the seventh and eighth weeks, the body grows more erect, the chest area develops, and the face begins to acquire a human look. In the third month, facial features continue to develop, nails form, ossification centers develop in bones, the sex of the unborn can be determined, and the fetus is capable of responding to outside stimulation. During the second trimester (fourth to sixth months), distinctive facial features develop, the fetal heartbeat can be detected, and fetal quickening (movements) can be felt externally. In the third trimester (the seventh to ninth months), the body proportions, except for the somewhat large head, are established, the skin becomes smoother, and the organs develop sufficiently for the newborn to function on its own.

If the fetus is expelled before 36 weeks of gestation are completed, it often can survive outside the womb, but artificial assistance, such as intravenous feedings and strict maintainance of the ambient temperature, may be needed during the remainder of its normal developmental period. Such births are called premature. Fetuses expelled before that period are not viable and are termed either a miscarriage or an abortion. A dead fetus delivered in the third trimester is termed stillborn.

Fetus | Learn everything there is to know about Fetus at Reference.com

Very clinical. Those damned pesky fetuses. If women laid eggs we could just decide if we wanted breakfast, or a family. Is that too much?

 

[JagOnDaRoad]

It was your contention that these women are likely to be abused, yes? Is it a stretch to think that if they had children, they would also be abused?

A woman is trying to get ahead by attending college. College is expensive. She gets pregnant and decides to (or is coerced into) carry to term. She is forced to drop out in order to care for the baby because child care is expensive, and being a full time mother is time consuming, demanding, and also expensive. Without the college degree, she is less in demand in the work force and has to scrape by on menial jobs. Between motherhood and work, where is the time or money to try and go back to school?

I did not make the assertion that dead is preferable to poor and uneducated. In some cases though, it might be a matter of taste. Some people think it is better to die in childbirth, starve in misery, or die in a war than to have never lived at all.

My own preference would be adoption. I was adopted, my father in law was adopted, and I have an adopted son who is now an adult with 2 adopted kids of his own. If my 13 year old daughter were raped and got pregnant, I would support abortion in that case.

As far as the abuse questions go, of course I don't think that women should be abused, nor do I think they should remain in an abusive relationship. I don't know if domestic abuse is something that is part of planned parenthood's charter. Perhaps it should be. Should that disqualify a person seeking an abortion? Perhaps the woman wants to get away and doesn't want to carry her abuser's child.

Preference and taste have no place when it comes to determining whether another person should live or not. And your personal hypotheticals do not support your previous assertions.

There is no evidence that abortion reduces the incidence of child abuse/neglect/poverty. There is plenty of evidence that coercion is a very real issue when it comes to women obtaining abortions (64 percent maintain that they were pressured..that's a huge number).

Yes, obviously children born into a situation where there is domestic abuse, neglect, and poverty will suddenly transform everything into goodness and light. There is probably just as much coercion wrt women carrying to term.

As far as preference and taste, neither yours or mine count for anything. We have settled case law supported by the 9th, 10th, and 14th amendments to the constitution supporting a woman's right to choose. You may not like it, but it is what it is.

Problem is: Biology. Solution is Intelligence. Today we have condoms. Today we know what causes pregnancy. Today we have a pro-sex-any-way-you-want-whenever-you-want society that has decided when that inconvenient being enters our schedule we can delete it. We legislated an ugly, reprehensible solution to a societal problem. We have no strength at the top of our intellectual heap....only wimps, wimps who will not stand for what is right.

Intelligence: Biology mandates the urge to procreate. We know it. The girls, no longer the ungainly twigs, seduce the boys; the boys, no longer repelled by their weakness and now enticed with girl's new attributes, pursue. It is up to us to keep these biological magnets apart until they can couple with the understanding that if they don't prevent pregnancy they will produce a life. Ya know, this is a job for a really intelligent group of people....and as I see it we just don't have enough intelligence to get the job done.

So, let's just uncork this whole thing. Why, pray tell me, is prostitution illegal? Can't a girl or guy make a buck doing what everyone just takes for granted? Heck, if it's perfectly legal to give it away then abort a human life, what is the problem with prostitution. " I say who, I say when." So, then that girl who is being abused and living in poverty can make a decent living, right? That would fix it...nice clothes, a new car, warts.

Why are X-rated movies X-rated? Let's go prime time! We practically dish the crap out on public TV. We talk about it over the airwaves all day long.

Am I mixing up issues? I don't think so. Am I moralizing? Well, do we have any morals? Because if we don't have any how can I be moralizing?

 

[Uncensored2008]

They carry fetuses.

No doubt excited women run about declaring "I'm having a fetus - which is not human according to the pro-aborts."

If a position requires one to employ disingenuous language, one can be assured they are on the wrong side of the issue.