Where should the line be drawn on abortion?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by manifold, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Noomi
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    Noomi Ninja Kicker Supporting Member

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    I agree, and I am yet to hear from any lifer why they feel justified in controlling the reproductive system of a woman.
     
  2. AVG-JOE
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    AVG-JOE American Mutt Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

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    As far as the technology goes, abortion as a procedure is not going anywhere.

    The trick to drawing a line around it is to keep it safe and out of the black market by keeping it legal and available, while preventing abortion from becoming a profitable stand-alone industry.

    As with most things in our non-transparent politics... follow the money.
     
  3. Steelplate
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    Steelplate Bluesman

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    That's what this thread is about, finding that line. The absolutists on either side of this debate don't seem to want to find that line. Which is fine, they are certainly entitled to their opinions. But it's not very practical.
     
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  4. thanatos144
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    thanatos144 Gold Member

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    So no laws ever?
     
  5. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    You must have missed my reference to China.
     
  6. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    Did you think pregnant women carry chickens, then?
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  7. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    "64% of women reported feeling pressured to abort.1

    • Most felt rushed or uncertain, yet 67% weren’t counseled.1
    • 79% weren’t told of available resources.1




    • 84% weren’t sufficiently informed before abortion.1
    • Pressure to abort can escalate to violence.2




    • Homicide is the leading killer of pregnant women.3
    • Clinics fail to screen for coercion.4




    • Women nearly 4 times more likely to die after abortion.5

    • Suicide rates 6 times higher after abortion.6
    • 65% of women suffer trauma symptoms after abortion.1



    1. VM Rue et. al., “Induced abortion and traumatic stress: A preliminary comparison of American and Russian women,” Medical Science Monitor 10(10): SR5-16 (2004).



    2. See the Abortion is the UnChoice for futher information and cases.

    3. I.L. Horton and D. Cheng, “Enhanced Surveillance for Pregnancy-Associated Mortality-Maryland, 1993-1998,”
    JAMA 285(11): 1455-1459(2001); see also J. Mcfarlane et. al., "Abuse During Pregnancy and Femicide: Urgent Implications for Women's Health,"Obstetrics & Gynecology 100: 27-36 (2002).



    4. See stopforcedabortions.com.
    5. M Gissler et. al., “Pregnancy Associated Deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage,”
    Acta Obsetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 76:651-657, (1997). Another study found that, compared to women who gave birth, women who had abortions had a 62% higher risk of death from all causes for at least eight years after their pregnancies. DC Reardon et. al., “Deaths Associated With Pregnancy Outcome: A Record Linkage Study of Low Income Women,”

    Southern Medical Journal 95(8):834-41, (2002).



    6. M Gissler et. al., “Pregnancy Associated Deaths in Finland 1987-1994 -- definition problems and benefits of record linkage,”
    Acta Obsetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica 76:651-657 (1997); and M. Gissler, “Injury deaths, suicides and homicides associated with pregnancy, Finland 1987-2000,” European J. Public Health 15(5):459-63 (2005).




     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  8. Uncensored2008
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    Uncensored2008 Libertarian Radical Supporting Member

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    Abortion is already a multi-billion dollar industry. The passion of the pro-abortion crowd isn't based on an innate hatred of babies, but on a desire to make a profit.
     
  9. koshergrl
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    koshergrl Diamond Member

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    Not only do the majority of women who get abortions feel "pressured" to abort (see above) but they are also much, much more likely to be abused or murdered.

    "Women with unwanted or mistimed pregnancies are at an increased risk for violence by their partners compared with women with intended pregnancies."

    Since the huge majority of women who get abortions are aborting based on "mistimed" or unintended pregnancy, it follows that these are women who are much more likely to be suffering abuse.

    Additionally, women who are receiving government benefits (foodstamps) and at the lower end of the education/income spectrum are also much more likely to be abused. Since the large majority of women who seek abortions state they do so because they don't want to interrupt their education plans or because they don't feel they can afford a child, then it follows that these are women at the lower end of the education/income spectrum, and thus at higher risk of abuse.

    The relationship between pregnancy intendedne... [Obstet Gynecol. 1995] - PubMed - NCBI
     
  10. Borillar
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    Borillar Gold Member

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    Do you want these women, who are "at the lower end of the education/income spectrum" and in possibly abusive relationships to be forced to carry to term children that are unwanted, unneeded, and unaffordable? Once born, the children would likely be subjected to the same abuse and poor conditions. And at the same time, conservatives want to remove the social safety net, so these poor mothers wouldn't even get the paltry benefits they receive now? Mothers seeking to better themselves via education, would be forced to stop to take care of a child, dooming herself to remain poor and uneducated. While I would hope that the expectant mother would consider adoption before abortion, pregnancy and delivery are not mere trivial inconveniences. They are life changing experiences, not to mention the expense.
     

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