Where should stimulus money go?

[editec]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

Is there another choice?

Well obviously there's another choice than doing nothing and hoping the market will solve the problem,

The other choice is pretty much what we see evolving right now...massive government spending.

Some of us obviously believe that the government should do nothing, and some of us believe that the government should do SOMETHING.

So obviously there is a choice to be made.

 

[Paulie]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

You know the liberals won't listen. They don't need to be bothered with parenting and nurturing. There's a company somewhere that's polluting the atmosphere, and that's WAY more important right now.

 

[KMAN]

Why not give contracts to the most qualified person? Then again that makes too much sense and we wouldn't want to offend anyone who may not be as smart as another person...LOL

 

[Paulie]

Why not give contracts to the most qualified person?

That's not fair!

 

[Shogun]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

a 50 year old Lathe worker who lost his job because his work is cheaper in mexico WONT just do a magic little dance and all of a sudden become a fucking java programmer. Sorry, thats just not how reality works. Blaming people who want the government to put more concern into their standard of living than your bullshit rhetoric IS a byproduct of democracy. Love it or leave it, bukko.

 

[Shogun]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

You know the liberals won't listen. They don't need to be bothered with parenting and nurturing. There's a company somewhere that's polluting the atmosphere, and that's WAY more important right now.

Do you have relatives above the age of 40 who used to make a living in a factory? Are you telling me that they are going to *POOF* become a fucking java programmer if they "invest in themselves" rather than demand that an elected government protect domestic production from free market capitalists?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

Is there another choice?

Well obviously there's another choice than doing nothing and hoping the market will solve the problem,

The other choice is pretty much what we see evolving right now...massive government spending.

Some of us obviously believe that the government should do nothing, and some of us believe that the government should do SOMETHING.

So obviously there is a choice to be made.

It's not obvious at all. Government spending that does not spark growth in the private sector may provide a short term boost to local economies and even a net short term boost to the national economy but it will provide no lasting boost to the economy. The spending projects in this bill that will create jobs are nearly all short term projects, such as repairing roads and bridges and schools that will do nothing to spur the private sector and the jobs will disappear when the project is over. In fact, large scale government spending projects that do not produce growth in the private sector that is not directly created by the government spending, such as wars, are likely to produce a recession when the projects are completed and the workers become idle.

The great exception is the building of the inter state highway system in the 1950's, which had an unexpectedly large impact on commerce after it was completed. But nothing in this present bill can conceivably be expected to produce such benefits - the difference between building a road and repairing a road is that a new road facilitates commerce between two places, which creates jobs, and a repaired road just has fewer potholes. You can take an unskilled worker and train him to be a skilled worker and give him a job on a government funded project such as this bill will, but when the project is completed he will become an unemployed skilled worker unless the private sector, what you like to call markets, has grown and created new jobs in the meantime. The spending parts of this bill have nothing to do with recovery. They are intended only to provide some small amount of relief and to pay for some pet projects while waiting for the private sector, markets, to recover and pull us out of this recession.

 

[DiamondDave]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

a 50 year old Lathe worker who lost his job because his work is cheaper in mexico WONT just do a magic little dance and all of a sudden become a fucking java programmer. Sorry, thats just not how reality works. Blaming people who want the government to put more concern into their standard of living than your bullshit rhetoric IS a byproduct of democracy. Love it or leave it, bukko.

And government using 436 levels of bureaucracy to "educate" is not going to make them one either...

But a person is responsible for their own education, their own well being, and their own earning and employment success as a fucking adult

Government, and those within the government, can have all the concern they fucking want... does not mean it is the responsibility of government to take over your personal responsibilities for you... does not mean government is to be used as a red taped filled redistribution center that is voted into place that way by people who can be very generous and wasteful with other people's money

The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail... bukko

 

[Shogun]

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

a 50 year old Lathe worker who lost his job because his work is cheaper in mexico WONT just do a magic little dance and all of a sudden become a fucking java programmer. Sorry, thats just not how reality works. Blaming people who want the government to put more concern into their standard of living than your bullshit rhetoric IS a byproduct of democracy. Love it or leave it, bukko.

And government using 436 levels of bureaucracy to "educate" is not going to make them one either...

But a person is responsible for their own education, their own well being, and their own earning and employment success as a fucking adult

Government, and those within the government, can have all the concern they fucking want... does not mean it is the responsibility of government to take over your personal responsibilities for you... does not mean government is to be used as a red taped filled redistribution center that is voted into place that way by people who can be very generous and wasteful with other people's money

The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail... bukko

Perhaps, but we ALL vote for the government that we want. You had your turn at the free market wheel and you lost it last November. If the majority wants this nations government to do more than throw our production class under your free market bus then, I guess, you have a reason to look forward to '12. Sorry, we won't sacrifice our American SOl just because you have an economic theory and the ability to ignore the utter failure thereof. We are not talking about a freedom to compete wtih other Americans and the freedom to fail to other Americans; No, WE are talking about being undermined by slave labor wages in semi-third world countries for the sake of America's non-production class. Its the timeless conflict between the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie. And I KNOW you love that nomenclature. Regardless, again, democracy has consequences.. remember that statement? I assure you that the people who went to the polls for the SOLE purpose of changing our economic "free market" clusterfuck do.

 

[DiamondDave]

a 50 year old Lathe worker who lost his job because his work is cheaper in mexico WONT just do a magic little dance and all of a sudden become a fucking java programmer. Sorry, thats just not how reality works. Blaming people who want the government to put more concern into their standard of living than your bullshit rhetoric IS a byproduct of democracy. Love it or leave it, bukko.

And government using 436 levels of bureaucracy to "educate" is not going to make them one either...

But a person is responsible for their own education, their own well being, and their own earning and employment success as a fucking adult

Government, and those within the government, can have all the concern they fucking want... does not mean it is the responsibility of government to take over your personal responsibilities for you... does not mean government is to be used as a red taped filled redistribution center that is voted into place that way by people who can be very generous and wasteful with other people's money

The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail... bukko

Perhaps, but we ALL vote for the government that we want. You had your turn at the free market wheel and you lost it last November. If the majority wants this nations government to do more than throw our production class under your free market bus then, I guess, you have a reason to look forward to '12. Sorry, we won't sacrifice our American SOl just because you have an economic theory and the ability to ignore the utter failure thereof. We are not talking about a freedom to compete wtih other Americans and the freedom to fail to other Americans; No, WE are talking about being undermined by slave labor wages in semi-third world countries for the sake of America's non-production class. Its the timeless conflict between the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie. And I KNOW you love that nomenclature. Regardless, again, democracy has consequences.. remember that statement? I assure you that the people who went to the polls for the SOLE purpose of changing our economic "free market" clusterfuck do.

No bukko.. that is why we have a constitution and only democratically elected officials within a constitutional republic... to ensure we do not have the tyranny of a 'democracy'

And our constitution was never set up to have an all powerful government taking over for the personal responsibilities for every individual within the country....

 

[Paulie]

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself

You know the liberals won't listen. They don't need to be bothered with parenting and nurturing. There's a company somewhere that's polluting the atmosphere, and that's WAY more important right now.

Do you have relatives above the age of 40 who used to make a living in a factory? Are you telling me that they are going to *POOF* become a fucking java programmer if they "invest in themselves" rather than demand that an elected government protect domestic production from free market capitalists?

I have 40 year olds in class with me right now. I'm almost 30. My current career is not viable for me in the long run, so I took a student loan and enrolled in school to learn a new career. There are a LOT of 40 something's that are going to school either for the first time, or to re-train for something new. In this technology age, life-long education is a foregone conclusion.

 

[doeton]

it really cracks me up to hear you guys talking all tough bout how you want to accept personal responsibility.

hahahaha.

it's called civilization people...then throw in a modern economy.

and then realize how frickin laughable your personal resposibility will become when the banks all fail and 1/3 of the population becomes unemployed.

sure dandelions make a nutritional salad supplement...but your fast fooding eating asses trying to live on them makes me laugh.

thank god Obama is the messiah...may allah be with him.

 

[Ravi]

You know the liberals won't listen. They don't need to be bothered with parenting and nurturing. There's a company somewhere that's polluting the atmosphere, and that's WAY more important right now.

Do you have relatives above the age of 40 who used to make a living in a factory? Are you telling me that they are going to *POOF* become a fucking java programmer if they "invest in themselves" rather than demand that an elected government protect domestic production from free market capitalists?

I have 40 year olds in class with me right now. I'm almost 30. My current career is not viable for me in the long run, so I took a student loan and enrolled in school to learn a new career. There are a LOT of 40 something's that are going to school either for the first time, or to re-train for something new. In this technology age, life-long education is a foregone conclusion.

Student Loans are underwritten by the Federal Government.

 

[DiamondDave]

You know the liberals won't listen. They don't need to be bothered with parenting and nurturing. There's a company somewhere that's polluting the atmosphere, and that's WAY more important right now.

Do you have relatives above the age of 40 who used to make a living in a factory? Are you telling me that they are going to *POOF* become a fucking java programmer if they "invest in themselves" rather than demand that an elected government protect domestic production from free market capitalists?

I have 40 year olds in class with me right now. I'm almost 30. My current career is not viable for me in the long run, so I took a student loan and enrolled in school to learn a new career. There are a LOT of 40 something's that are going to school either for the first time, or to re-train for something new. In this technology age, life-long education is a foregone conclusion.

But how can anyone ever survive without big mommy government to pick them up, dust off their bottoms, hand them $10 dollars, give them an ice cream, and go down and scold that big nasty bully of a business that made them feel bad because they no longer had use for their services

Ones like the far left and Shogun love to believe that people truly are incapable of taking care of themselves.. or that even when they can't, it is the absolute duty of a government to take care of all their personal needs, at the expense of everyone else around them...

It is amazing what any person can do when they have to.... but you never really get to see that with the nanny state mentality we have so prevalent now

 

[Paulie]

Shogun, my girlfriend has a 50 year old woman in her LPN class right now. That woman will get a secure job that pays well as soon as she graduates. There's a huge demand for nurses right now. Healthcare is about the only section in my local paper's jobs classifieds that has more than a select few to pick from.

If age is being used as an excuse, I don't have much sympathy.

 

[Paulie]

Do you have relatives above the age of 40 who used to make a living in a factory? Are you telling me that they are going to *POOF* become a fucking java programmer if they "invest in themselves" rather than demand that an elected government protect domestic production from free market capitalists?

I have 40 year olds in class with me right now. I'm almost 30. My current career is not viable for me in the long run, so I took a student loan and enrolled in school to learn a new career. There are a LOT of 40 something's that are going to school either for the first time, or to re-train for something new. In this technology age, life-long education is a foregone conclusion.

Student Loans are underwritten by the Federal Government.

Apparently you don't know what "loan" means. Better yet, what "interest-bearing loan" means.

It means, and I'll say this slowly so even YOU can understand..

That I pay back the government underwritten loan, PLUS the interest. So the government made a profit off of me getting a better education, in which case I'll make more, in which case I'll pay more taxes.

I know that was tough to comprehend in your limited critical thinking ability, but that's what I'm here for.

 

[Ravi]

I have 40 year olds in class with me right now. I'm almost 30. My current career is not viable for me in the long run, so I took a student loan and enrolled in school to learn a new career. There are a LOT of 40 something's that are going to school either for the first time, or to re-train for something new. In this technology age, life-long education is a foregone conclusion.

Student Loans are underwritten by the Federal Government.

Apparently you don't know what "loan" means. Better yet, what "interest-bearing loan" means.

It means, and I'll say this slowly so even YOU can understand..

That I pay back the government underwritten loan, PLUS the interest. So the government made a profit off of me getting a better education, in which case I'll make more, in which case I'll pay more taxes.

I know that was tough to comprehend in your limited critical thinking ability, but that's what I'm here for.

OMG! You're a socialist. In fact, you are much more socialist than I am.

 

[Paulie]

Student Loans are underwritten by the Federal Government.

Apparently you don't know what "loan" means. Better yet, what "interest-bearing loan" means.

It means, and I'll say this slowly so even YOU can understand..

That I pay back the government underwritten loan, PLUS the interest. So the government made a profit off of me getting a better education, in which case I'll make more, in which case I'll pay more taxes.

I know that was tough to comprehend in your limited critical thinking ability, but that's what I'm here for.

OMG! You're a socialist. In fact, you are much more socialist than I am.

You ought to be required to make your case before you get to post a bunch of lol smileys like you somehow won a prize.

I've never disagreed with student loans in my life. If there's anything worth the government investing money in, it's higher education. If they can make a profit off of lending money for school, I'm all for it.

You on the other hand, support food stamps for people going to school. But I'M the socialist.

You tried yet again to catch me on something, and failed. I get to use more smileys than you now. ... and ...

 

[xsited1]

The stimulus money should go to Negroes.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

UNCF

 

[Shogun]

And government using 436 levels of bureaucracy to "educate" is not going to make them one either...

But a person is responsible for their own education, their own well being, and their own earning and employment success as a fucking adult

Government, and those within the government, can have all the concern they fucking want... does not mean it is the responsibility of government to take over your personal responsibilities for you... does not mean government is to be used as a red taped filled redistribution center that is voted into place that way by people who can be very generous and wasteful with other people's money

The freedom to succeed goes hand in hand with the freedom to fail... bukko

Perhaps, but we ALL vote for the government that we want. You had your turn at the free market wheel and you lost it last November. If the majority wants this nations government to do more than throw our production class under your free market bus then, I guess, you have a reason to look forward to '12. Sorry, we won't sacrifice our American SOl just because you have an economic theory and the ability to ignore the utter failure thereof. We are not talking about a freedom to compete wtih other Americans and the freedom to fail to other Americans; No, WE are talking about being undermined by slave labor wages in semi-third world countries for the sake of America's non-production class. Its the timeless conflict between the Proletariat and Bourgeoisie. And I KNOW you love that nomenclature. Regardless, again, democracy has consequences.. remember that statement? I assure you that the people who went to the polls for the SOLE purpose of changing our economic "free market" clusterfuck do.

No bukko.. that is why we have a constitution and only democratically elected officials within a constitutional republic... to ensure we do not have the tyranny of a 'democracy'

And our constitution was never set up to have an all powerful government taking over for the personal responsibilities for every individual within the country....

hey, you can scream that until you are blue in the face. The constitution does not preserve free market economies. You sure were busy listening to complaints about the "tyranny of the majority" over the last 8 years, eh? I disagree with your last sentence 100%. No one is assuming that the gov is literally wiping asses and getting beers from the fridge just because you want to act like a fucking drama queen when the people vote to preserve our economy after the failure of your economic opinion left office.