Where should stimulus money go?

[WillowTree]

The problem is, I won't just buy an American product JUST because it's American. If I can get a product cheaper that happens to be from another country, I'm going to do it, because ultimately, I care most about my purchasing power. I want to maximize the value of my Dollar. So if we impose tariffs, and foreign goods that are typically superior to their American counterparts, such as cars, rise in price, people like me lose out. Now I have to pay MORE for a product that's still better than its crappy American counterpart.

That's taking the burden off the American companies to be more efficient, and instead passing the financial liability on to the consumer. They don't have to budget themselves better, and make more competent manufacturing and investment decisions, because they can rely on the tariffs to increase their business instead.

It's a bad policy, in my opinion. I don't blame the trade deficit on the lack of tariffs. I blame it on an increase in domestic taxes, and a lackluster attitude on the part of WAY too many corporate hierarchies.

especially true of auto, foreign made is much better.

 

[Harry Dresden]

especially true of auto, foreign made is much better.

matter of opinion,i have had Chevys since 89 and have had zero problems,if something did break it was very minor.....

 

[oreo]

Taking the stimulus package as a fait accompli, where should the money go?

Your poll vote is a little misleading. Work, especially construction projects "have" to go to skilled, licensed people. I really don't care what color or race they are, but it's a must that they are skilled & or licensed to do the work they are hired to do.

Since I have been self-employed in the construction industry for over 30+ years & also on my local building department board of review--I know the costs when people in the construction industry try to cut costs by hiring the inexperienced. The cost for tearing out & starting over again far out-weighs using the proper people in the first place. People doing this also run a very high risk of endangering the public safety.

There are building codes & standards that have to be followed--& the people on these construction projects need to know these codes & standards. You don't get that kind of knowledge from an inexperienced/unskilled employee.

 

[oreo]

I don't think it's so much that we can't stomach the bad times, rather we'd like to avoid the bullshit associated with some hypothetical free market that is more rhetoric than anything worthy of trusting our economic lives to. The assumption of a benevolent free market is just a half step lower than jewish gods creating everything in seven days on the Fucking Retarded Concept meter. When WSJ conservatives manage to stop making excuses for trade deficits that cripple OUR ability to compete with third world slave wage nations then perhaps the free market bulshit might sound more viable than a request for a cigarette right before a firing squad.


The stimulus package won't solve anything unless it can be recycled BACK into the US economy. Buying a flat screen TV won't accomplish this. Rather than check from the gov each citizen should be given a tax exemption of all domestic products and services consumed for a period of specific months. Thus, our LOCAL economy gets an injection rather than blown on some temporary gratification.

I agree with you that the only way to get this economy moving is through tax cuts & incentives. The methods currently being talked about within the Obama administration were tried once before. We had Hoover a republican president that tried to incorporate these huge government spending bills, Roosevelt got elected & he basically did the exact same thing as Hoover but only put the economic stimulus bill on steroids.

It appears that this current administration does not realise that we no longer live in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, I am all for every single penny going to alternative energy--something we really haven't done. But, "roads & bridges". I'll agree that the 1930's needed new roads & bridges, but today--I don't think so.

I also question--how many people within this country know construction work, are licensed to handle heavy equipment, are building engineers, road & bridge builders? Not many.

Therefore, the best way to stimulate the "economy" for every single person is to lower capital gains rates, lower the corporate tax rate--"which is currently obscene"--the highest on the planet at 35%! Do that--the economy comes back for everyone.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't think it's so much that we can't stomach the bad times, rather we'd like to avoid the bullshit associated with some hypothetical free market that is more rhetoric than anything worthy of trusting our economic lives to. The assumption of a benevolent free market is just a half step lower than jewish gods creating everything in seven days on the Fucking Retarded Concept meter. When WSJ conservatives manage to stop making excuses for trade deficits that cripple OUR ability to compete with third world slave wage nations then perhaps the free market bulshit might sound more viable than a request for a cigarette right before a firing squad.


The stimulus package won't solve anything unless it can be recycled BACK into the US economy. Buying a flat screen TV won't accomplish this. Rather than check from the gov each citizen should be given a tax exemption of all domestic products and services consumed for a period of specific months. Thus, our LOCAL economy gets an injection rather than blown on some temporary gratification.

I agree with you that the only way to get this economy moving is through tax cuts & incentives. The methods currently being talked about within the Obama administration were tried once before. We had Hoover a republican president that tried to incorporate these huge government spending bills, Roosevelt got elected & he basically did the exact same thing as Hoover but only put the economic stimulus bill on steroids.

It appears that this current administration does not realise that we no longer live in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, I am all for every single penny going to alternative energy--something we really haven't done. But, "roads & bridges". I'll agree that the 1930's needed new roads & bridges, but today--I don't think so.

I also question--how many people within this country know construction work, are licensed to handle heavy equipment, are building engineers, road & bridge builders? Not many.

Therefore, the best way to stimulate the "economy" for every single person is to lower capital gains rates, lower the corporate tax rate--"which is currently obscene"--the highest on the planet at 35%! Do that--the economy comes back for everyone.

we still need roads and bridges
some are in desperate need of repair and replacement

 

[WillowTree]

especially true of auto, foreign made is much better.

matter of opinion,i have had Chevys since 89 and have had zero problems,if something did break it was very minor.....

not my experience, last american car i had was a mercury cougar, always in the shop.. now i have an eight year old toyota, never been in the shop.

 

[DiveCon]

especially true of auto, foreign made is much better.

matter of opinion,i have had Chevys since 89 and have had zero problems,if something did break it was very minor.....

not my experience, last american car i had was a mercury cougar, always in the shop.. now i have an eight year old toyota, never been in the shop.

ah, there is your problem, you bought a ford
LOL

 

[WillowTree]

matter of opinion,i have had Chevys since 89 and have had zero problems,if something did break it was very minor.....

not my experience, last american car i had was a mercury cougar, always in the shop.. now i have an eight year old toyota, never been in the shop.

ah, there is your problem, you bought a ford
LOL

ford and magnavox.. pfffft.

 

[Zoomie1980]

If we don't fix the housing market no amount of stimulus will work. Housing collapse is the root of this, enabled by out of control lending and leverage of lending, but until the free-fall in housing and run-away foreclosure is cured this economy is stuck. Infrastructure spending does absolutely nothing for that, and one of the reasons it will have NO immediate effect.

 

[WillowTree]

If we don't fix the housing market no amount of stimulus will work. Housing collapse is the root of this, enabled by out of control lending and leverage of lending, but until the free-fall in housing and run-away foreclosure is cured this economy is stuck. Infrastructure spending does absolutely nothing for that, and one of the reasons it will have NO immediate effect.

Well the Democrats will have some nice new bridges for people to live under. Til they fall down.

 

[oreo]

I don't think it's so much that we can't stomach the bad times, rather we'd like to avoid the bullshit associated with some hypothetical free market that is more rhetoric than anything worthy of trusting our economic lives to. The assumption of a benevolent free market is just a half step lower than jewish gods creating everything in seven days on the Fucking Retarded Concept meter. When WSJ conservatives manage to stop making excuses for trade deficits that cripple OUR ability to compete with third world slave wage nations then perhaps the free market bulshit might sound more viable than a request for a cigarette right before a firing squad.


The stimulus package won't solve anything unless it can be recycled BACK into the US economy. Buying a flat screen TV won't accomplish this. Rather than check from the gov each citizen should be given a tax exemption of all domestic products and services consumed for a period of specific months. Thus, our LOCAL economy gets an injection rather than blown on some temporary gratification.

I agree with you that the only way to get this economy moving is through tax cuts & incentives. The methods currently being talked about within the Obama administration were tried once before. We had Hoover a republican president that tried to incorporate these huge government spending bills, Roosevelt got elected & he basically did the exact same thing as Hoover but only put the economic stimulus bill on steroids.

It appears that this current administration does not realise that we no longer live in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, I am all for every single penny going to alternative energy--something we really haven't done. But, "roads & bridges". I'll agree that the 1930's needed new roads & bridges, but today--I don't think so.

I also question--how many people within this country know construction work, are licensed to handle heavy equipment, are building engineers, road & bridge builders? Not many.

Therefore, the best way to stimulate the "economy" for every single person is to lower capital gains rates, lower the corporate tax rate--"which is currently obscene"--the highest on the planet at 35%! Do that--the economy comes back for everyone.

we still need roads and bridges
some are in desperate need of repair and replacement

There are some bridges & roads that need repair. But let's face it, this is not the 1930's were there were hardly any roads or bridges. Today we have 4 lane highways that criss-cross this country & we have bridges.

The point being repair jobs are not going to put 2 million Americans to work. Let alone the engineering & design process (which is a very lenghty process)--prior to the first shovel going into the dirt.

This type of construction only stimulates Americans who already work on roads & bridges. It does nothing for the thousands of Americans that will be loosing their jobs at Sprint, Home Depot, Micro-soft, Intel, etc.

To stimulate the entire economy in all sectors--tax breaks & incentives are needed. That means corporate tax cuts--tax incentives to buy autos that are highly efficient--capital gains tax cut--so our markets will stop the hemoraging.

Then if there is someway to get mortgage interest rates down in the 4% range, we would see this economy explode in new growth.

 

[Lycurgus]

This stimulus package is stuffed with wasteful pork and should go directly into the trash can. But as the GOP was told by Obama, I won, I trump you. Then he blamed some of the pork onto Pelosi and others!

The DC shuffle. Change we can count on!

If we must have a stimulus package, then at least give us one which has not one dollar of waste in it. At least respect the American Taxpayer that much!

 

[editec]

I agree with you that the only way to get this economy moving is through tax cuts & incentives. The methods currently being talked about within the Obama administration were tried once before. We had Hoover a republican president that tried to incorporate these huge government spending bills, Roosevelt got elected & he basically did the exact same thing as Hoover but only put the economic stimulus bill on steroids.

It appears that this current administration does not realise that we no longer live in the 1930's. Don't get me wrong, I am all for every single penny going to alternative energy--something we really haven't done. But, "roads & bridges". I'll agree that the 1930's needed new roads & bridges, but today--I don't think so.

I also question--how many people within this country know construction work, are licensed to handle heavy equipment, are building engineers, road & bridge builders? Not many.

Therefore, the best way to stimulate the "economy" for every single person is to lower capital gains rates, lower the corporate tax rate--"which is currently obscene"--the highest on the planet at 35%! Do that--the economy comes back for everyone.

we still need roads and bridges
some are in desperate need of repair and replacement

There are some bridges & roads that need repair. But let's face it, this is not the 1930's were there were hardly any roads or bridges. Today we have 4 lane highways that criss-cross this country & we have bridges.

Most of America's bridge and overpasses are older than most American are. Eventually they need repairs or replacement.

The point being repair jobs are not going to put 2 million Americans to work. Let alone the engineering & design process (which is a very lenghty process)--prior to the first shovel going into the dirt.

Yeah, that's true. So?

This type of construction only stimulates Americans who already work on roads & bridges. It does nothing for the thousands of Americans that will be loosing their jobs at Sprint, Home Depot, Micro-soft, Intel, etc.

True, very true...which is why that is not the entire stimulus package.

To stimulate the entire economy in all sectors--tax breaks & incentives are needed. That means corporate tax cuts--tax incentives to buy autos that are highly efficient--capital gains tax cut--so our markets will stop the hemoraging.

I just posted a fairly well detailed account of the stimulus package on another thread.

Then if there is someway to get mortgage interest rates down in the 4% range, we would see this economy explode in new growth.

Rethinking the rates of interest that many newer buyers are facing might be a grand idea.

OTOH, I carried my 10.5% mortgage for 15 years. Can I get a rebate?

Cause I've already paid in more than twice the asking price for my house so I'd appreciate it tremendously if the banks would reimburse me based on my mortgage having been 4%.

I figure they'd owe me over $100,000 and of course I'd own my home free and clear.

 

[Old Rocks]

Taking the stimulus package as a fait accompli, where should the money go?

Your poll vote is a little misleading. Work, especially construction projects "have" to go to skilled, licensed people. I really don't care what color or race they are, but it's a must that they are skilled & or licensed to do the work they are hired to do.

Since I have been self-employed in the construction industry for over 30+ years & also on my local building department board of review--I know the costs when people in the construction industry try to cut costs by hiring the inexperienced. The cost for tearing out & starting over again far out-weighs using the proper people in the first place. People doing this also run a very high risk of endangering the public safety.

There are building codes & standards that have to be followed--& the people on these construction projects need to know these codes & standards. You don't get that kind of knowledge from an inexperienced/unskilled employee.

But we can create more skilled and knowledgable people by requiring apprenticeship programs on the new projects. There has been all too little of this done in the last 20 years. Basically, the old CCC did just this. And we need to do it again.

 

[Old Rocks]

Your poll is loaded to make liberals look good.

I pass!

Hey we already look good. 365 electorial votes, remember?

Look, tempest in a teapot. The idea is to create more skilled workers of whatever color or sex. They have to start somewhere. So we start them in apprentice programs. We start them off as unskilled laborers on projects, fire the lazy or incompetant, and recruit the ambitous into the trades. In my trade, I am an industrial millwright, the average age is 56 years old. We need younger people learning the trades.

 

[Lycurgus]

Your poll is loaded to make liberals look good.

I pass!

Hey we already look good. 365 electorial votes, remember?

Look, tempest in a teapot. The idea is to create more skilled workers of whatever color or sex. They have to start somewhere. So we start them in apprentice programs. We start them off as unskilled laborers on projects, fire the lazy or incompetant, and recruit the ambitous into the trades. In my trade, I am an industrial millwright, the average age is 56 years old. We need younger people learning the trades.

Now your talking about an educational package, not a stimulus package!

Make up your mind!

I could go on, but, with all those electoral votes, why bother!

 

[dilloduck]

Your poll is loaded to make liberals look good.

I pass!

Hey we already look good. 365 electorial votes, remember?

Look, tempest in a teapot. The idea is to create more skilled workers of whatever color or sex. They have to start somewhere. So we start them in apprentice programs. We start them off as unskilled laborers on projects, fire the lazy or incompetant, and recruit the ambitous into the trades. In my trade, I am an industrial millwright, the average age is 56 years old. We need younger people learning the trades.

A lot of people have trades---there's just no place to apply them.

 

[editec]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

Is there another choice?

 

[DiamondDave]

Education (all by itself) is not the solution.

We need to make investments to educate people, but we also need to take the workers we have now who are trained and find productive work for them, too.

Not an easy task, I'll admit, but counting on the market to do it is, I think, not a wise choice, either.

How about the goddamn people invest in themselves and their own education?? Not the government's responsibility... It's not up to the government or the concern of the government (or anyone else for that matter) what you learn, how well you learn it, or whether you apply what you learn... you are a goddamn adult... you're responsible for yourself