Where Is the Outcry from "Peaceful" Muslims?

[Adam's Apple]

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Muslim Violence
By Jeff Jacoby, The Boston Globe
September 20, 2006

AS SHE LAY dying in a Mogadishu hospital, Sister Leonella forgave her killers. She had lived in Africa for almost four decades and could speak fluent Somali, but her last words were murmured in Italian, her mother tongue. ``Perdono, perdono," she whispered. I forgive, I forgive.

She was 65 and had devoted her life to the care of sick mothers and children. She was on her way to meet three other nuns for lunch on Sunday when two gunmen shot her several times in the back. "Her slaying was not a random attack," the Associated Press reported. It "raised concerns" that she was the latest victim of "growing Islamic radicalism in the country."

Raised concerns? Sister Leonella was gunned down less than two days after a prominent Somali cleric had called on Muslims to kill Pope Benedict XVI for his remarks about Islam in a scholarly lecture last week.

"We urge you, Muslims, wherever you are to hunt down the pope for his barbaric statements," Sheik Abubukar Hassan Malin had exhorted worshippers during evening prayers at a Mogadishu mosque. "Whoever offends our prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim." Sister Leonella was not the pope, but she was presumably close enough for purposes of the local jihadists.

If it weren't so sickening, it would be farcical: A line in the pope's speech suggests that Islam has a dark history of violence, and offended Muslims vent their displeasure by howling for his death, firebombing churches, and attacking innocent Christians. One of the points Benedict made in his speech at the University of Regensburg was that religious faith untethered by reason can lead to savagery. The mobs denouncing him could hardly have done a better job of proving him right.

In his lecture, Benedict quoted the late Byzantine emperor Manuel II, who had condemned Islam's militancy with these words: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

In the ensuing uproar, British Muslims demonstrated outside Westminster Cathedral with signs reading "Pope go to Hell" and "Islam will conquer Rome," while the head of the Society of Muslim Lawyers declared that the pope must be "subject to capital punishment." In Iraq, the radical Mujahideen's Army vowed to "smash the crosses in the house of the dog from Rome" and the Mujahideen Shura Council swore to "continue our jihad and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks." Arsonists in the West Bank set churches on fire, and a group calling itself "The Sword of Islam" issued a warning: "If the pope does not appear on TV and apologize for his comments, we will blow up all of Gaza's churches."

In fact, the pope did apologize, more than once. Whether the studied frenzy will now subside remains to be seen. But it's only a matter of time until the next one erupts.

This time it was a 14th-century quote from a Byzantine ruler that set off -- or rather, was exploited by Islamist firebrands to ignite -- the international demonstrations, death threats, and violence. Earlier this year it was cartoons about Mohammed in a Danish newspaper. Last year it was a Newsweek report, later debunked, that a Koran had been descecrated by a US interrogator in Guantanamo. Before that it was Jerry Falwell's comment on "60Minutes" that Mohammed was a "terrorist." Back in 1989 it was the publication of Salman Rushdie's satirical novel, The Satanic Verses.

In every case, the pretext for the Muslim rage was the claim that Islam had been insulted. Freedom of speech was irrelevant: While the rioters and those inciting them routinely insult Christianity, Judaism, and other religions, they demand that no one be allowed to denigrate Islam or its prophet. It is a staggering double standard, and too many in the West seem willing to go along with it. Witness the editorials in US newspapers this week scolding the pope for his speech. Recall the State Department's condemnation of the Danish cartoons last winter.

Of course nobody's faith should be gratuitously affronted. But the real insult to Islam is not a line from a papal speech or a cartoon about Mohammed. It is the violence, terror, and bloodshed that Islamist fanatics unleash in the name of their religion -- and the unwillingness of most of the world's Muslims to say or do anything to stop them.

 

[Rico]

their lunatic brethren. Islam was spread through violence and death and knows no other method to express itself. It is a religion of death and that is exactly the conditon where this Christian would like to see Islam... dead.

 

[Adam's Apple]

their lunatic brethren. Islam was spread through violence and death and knows no other method to express itself. It is a religion of death and that is exactly the conditon where this Christian would like to see Islam... dead.

AMEN! I'll second that. The more I learn about Islam, the more I think it is a satanic cult instead of a "peaceful" religion.

 

[Rico]

AMEN! I'll second that. The more I learn about Islam, the more I think it is a satanic cult instead of a "peaceful" religion.

Being a Christian my first inclination is to follow Jesus' teaching and turn the other cheek. But do that with these folks and they'll decapitiate you. Also, being a Christian, I believe that no other prophet would follow Christ. I'm tired of playing nice. I believe Islam is a bastard religion whose founder had delusional insanity based visions in a cave and wrote down the same. Later, after having gained some power, he further, "extended" his visions.


Islam is a lie pure and simple.

At the age of thirty-five, Mohammed began taking retreats to a cave in Mount Hiraa', in the desert hills outside Mecca, to meditate in solitude. It was during one of these retreats that Mohammed received his Call. It was the year 610 e.v., one of the last ten nights of the month of Ramadan; and at that time, Ramadan occurred during the hottest part of the summer. He was sitting alone in his cave in the darkness.

The guy was a lunatic. His vision a lie. His book a forgery of his insanity.

 

[ErikViking]

their lunatic brethren. Islam was spread through violence and death and knows no other method to express itself. It is a religion of death and that is exactly the conditon where this Christian would like to see Islam... dead.

Intresting enough, if I swap the words "christian" and "islam" in this post I get about the same sort of message and equally accurate too. Isn't this what we all fight against?

Wouldn't this fit more under War for terror?

 

[Rico]

Intresting enough, if I swap the words "christian" and "islam" in this post I get about the same sort of message and equally accurate too. Isn't this what we all fight against?

Wouldn't this fit more under War for terror?

Ah no Erik it doesn't swap. Islamists would be the ones killing people in the name of their religion now wouldn't they? Say it with me now VERY SLOWLY "The Muslims are the ones killing people and commiting acts of violence in the name of their religion NOT CHRISTIANS".

And don't give me that hooey about how during the Crusades Christians killed for their religion. Remember that was 800-1000 yeasrs ago. We are discussing current events. You may now return your mind to its upright position.

 

[Annie]

Ah no Erik it doesn't swap. Islamists would be the ones killing people in the name of their religion now wouldn't they? Say it with me now VERY SLOWLY "The Muslims are the ones killing people and commiting acts of violence in the name of their religion NOT CHRISTIANS".

And don't give me that hooey about how during the Crusades Christians killed for their religion. Remember that was 800-1000 yeasrs ago. We are discussing current events. You may now return your mind to its upright position.

Exactly, it wasn't even true back then!

 

[trobinett]

AS SHE LAY dying in a Mogadishu hospital, Sister Leonella forgave her killers. She had lived in Africa for almost four decades and could speak fluent Somali, but her last words were murmured in Italian, her mother tongue. ``Perdono, perdono," she whispered. I forgive, I forgive.

She was 65 and had devoted her life to the care of sick mothers and children. She was on her way to meet three other nuns for lunch on Sunday when two gunmen shot her several times in the back. "Her slaying was not a random attack," the Associated Press reported. It "raised concerns" that she was the latest victim of "growing Islamic radicalism in the country."

Raised concerns? Sister Leonella was gunned down less than two days after a prominent Somali cleric had called on Muslims to kill Pope Benedict XVI for his remarks about Islam in a scholarly lecture last week.

Wait, I must of missed something.

To my figuring there is NO SUCH THING as a non-violent Muslim.

Have I missed something?

I'd sure like to meet one, and I don't mean one of these fair weather types, that the MSM holds up for display ever so often.

I'll tell ya straight up, when it comes to Muslim's, its a brotherhood of violence, and should be dealt with as such, period.

Take it from one who knows, there is no other way.

 

[nt250]

Being a Christian my first inclination is to follow Jesus' teaching and turn the other cheek. But do that with these folks and they'll decapitiate you. Also, being a Christian, I believe that no other prophet would follow Christ. I'm tired of playing nice. I believe Islam is a bastard religion whose founder had delusional insanity based visions in a cave and wrote down the same. Later, after having gained some power, he further, "extended" his visions.


Islam is a lie pure and simple.

At the age of thirty-five, Mohammed began taking retreats to a cave in Mount Hiraa', in the desert hills outside Mecca, to meditate in solitude. It was during one of these retreats that Mohammed received his Call. It was the year 610 e.v., one of the last ten nights of the month of Ramadan; and at that time, Ramadan occurred during the hottest part of the summer. He was sitting alone in his cave in the darkness.

The guy was a lunatic. His vision a lie. His book a forgery of his insanity.

I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist with a little a. All religious people are stupid. Including you. You also believe a lie. The lie you believe just happens to be less dangerous to unbelievers.

Islam is far worse than Christianity. Muhammad wasn't insane. He was a very smart guy who looked at this new religion called Christianity and he decided that he could do the same thing. Why not? If people were dumb enough to believe God sent His Son to Earth to be tortured and killed in His name, they'd believe pretty much anything, wouldn't they? He proved they would.

It's not at all surprising that Islam now claims almost a billion and a half followers. Islam is a political philosphy and a way of life that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whoever he wants, as long as he can say it is in defense of Islam. And EVERYTHING is in defense of Islam. Islam permeates every aspect of a Muslim's llife from the moment he wakes up in the morning to the second he goes to bed at night. It tells them what they can and cannot eat, when and with whom they have sex, how many times a day and exactly how they pray. Between the Koran and the Hadiths, there is not a single aspect of daily life that isn't covered, and that doesn't allow a Muslim to do exactly what they want to do.

There is not a single rule in Islam that doesn't have an exception or a qualifier that allows a Muslim to do exactly what he wants to do and still justify it. Even the 5 Pillars have "outs". Except for the one that makes a Muslim a Muslim, and they only have to say that one once, there is not a single rule that has to be followed for reasons as simple as not wanting to.

Oh, Muhammad knew exactly what he was doing. He knew human nature very well.

 

[Rico]

I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist with a little a. All religious people are stupid. Including you. You also believe a lie. The lie you believe just happens to be less dangerous to unbelievers.








In Psalm 14:1 we read, "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God."

It would appear from scripture that the Psalmist (David) knew some humans' nature 3000 years ago, that of the fool.

You, sir, are a fool. Interesting the arrogance of the athiest. Blind arrogance is indicative of foolishness.

 

[Rico]

I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist with a little a. All religious people are stupid. Including you. You also believe a lie. The lie you believe just happens to be less dangerous to unbelievers.

Islam is far worse than Christianity. Muhammad wasn't insane. He was a very smart guy who looked at this new religion called Christianity and he decided that he could do the same thing. Why not? If people were dumb enough to believe God sent His Son to Earth to be tortured and killed in His name, they'd believe pretty much anything, wouldn't they? He proved they would.

It's not at all surprising that Islam now claims almost a billion and a half followers. Islam is a political philosphy and a way of life that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, to whoever he wants, as long as he can say it is in defense of Islam. And EVERYTHING is in defense of Islam. Islam permeates every aspect of a Muslim's llife from the moment he wakes up in the morning to the second he goes to bed at night. It tells them what they can and cannot eat, when and with whom they have sex, how many times a day and exactly how they pray. Between the Koran and the Hadiths, there is not a single aspect of daily life that isn't covered, and that doesn't allow a Muslim to do exactly what they want to do.

There is not a single rule in Islam that doesn't have an exception or a qualifier that allows a Muslim to do exactly what he wants to do and still justify it. Even the 5 Pillars have "outs". Except for the one that makes a Muslim a Muslim, and they only have to say that one once, there is not a single rule that has to be followed for reasons as simple as not wanting to.

Oh, Muhammad knew exactly what he was doing. He knew human nature very well.

Futhermore:

If we are to understand how to answer the fool, if we are to be able to demonstrate that God has made the pseudo-wisdom of the world foolish, then we must first study the biblical conception of the fool and his foolishness. In scriptural perspective the fool is not basically a shallow-minded or illiterate ignoramus; he can be quite educated and sophisticated in social reckoning. However, he is a fool because he has forsaken the source of true wisdom in God in order to rely on his own (allegedly), self-sufficient, intellectual powers. He is unteachable (Prov. 10:8) and despises instruction (Prov. 15:5); whereas the wise man heeds council given to him, 'The way of a fool is right in his own eyes' (Prov. 12:15). The fool has utter self-confidence and imagines himself to be intellectually autonomous. 'He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool' (Prov. 28:26). A fool cannot think of himself as mistaken (Prov. 17:10). He judges matters according to his own pre-established standards of truth and right, and thus his own thoughts always turn out in the long run to be correct. The fool is sure that he can rely on his own rational authority and intellectual scrutiny. 'The fool beareth himself insolently and is confident' (Prov. 14:16), and therefore he utters his own mind (Prov. 29:11). In actuality, this autonomous man is dull, stubborn, boorish, obstinate and stupid. He professes himself to be wise, but from the opening of his mouth it is clear that he is (in the biblical sense) 'a fool' - his only wisdom would consist in keeping silent (Prov. 17:28). 'The heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness' (Prov. 12:23), and the fool flaunts his folly (Prov. 13:16). He eats up folly unreflectingly (Prov. 15:14), pours it out (Prov. 15:2), and returns to it like a dog to his vomit (Prov. 26:11). He is so in love with his folly and so dedicated to its preservation that 'It is better for a man to meet a bear robbed of her whelps, than a fool is his folly' (Prov. 17:12). The fool does not want to find the truth; he only wants to be self-justified in his own imaginations. While he may feign objectivity, 'A fool hath no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may reveal itself' (Prov. 18:2). He is committed to his own presuppositions and wishes to guard his autonomy. Thus he will not depart from evil (Prov. 13:19), and thus all his knowledgeable talk reveals nothing but perverse and lying lips (Prov. 10:18; 19:1). He may talk proudly, but "A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are a snare of his soul' (Prov. 18:7). He shall not endure the judgment of God (Ps. 5:5)."

 

[Reneer]

Futhermore:

If we are to understand how to answer the fool, if we are to be able to demonstrate that God has made the pseudo-wisdom of the world foolish, then we must first study the biblical conception of the fool and his foolishness. In scriptural perspective the fool is not basically a shallow-minded or illiterate ignoramus; he can be quite educated and sophisticated in social reckoning. However, he is a fool because he has forsaken the source of true wisdom in God in order to rely on his own (allegedly), self-sufficient, intellectual powers. He is unteachable (Prov. 10:8) and despises instruction (Prov. 15:5); whereas the wise man heeds council given to him, 'The way of a fool is right in his own eyes' (Prov. 12:15). The fool has utter self-confidence and imagines himself to be intellectually autonomous. 'He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool' (Prov. 28:26). A fool cannot think of himself as mistaken (Prov. 17:10). He judges matters according to his own pre-established standards of truth and right, and thus his own thoughts always turn out in the long run to be correct. The fool is sure that he can rely on his own rational authority and intellectual scrutiny. 'The fool beareth himself insolently and is confident' (Prov. 14:16), and therefore he utters his own mind (Prov. 29:11). In actuality, this autonomous man is dull, stubborn, boorish, obstinate and stupid. He professes himself to be wise, but from the opening of his mouth it is clear that he is (in the biblical sense) 'a fool' - his only wisdom would consist in keeping silent (Prov. 17:28). 'The heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness' (Prov. 12:23), and the fool flaunts his folly (Prov. 13:16). He eats up folly unreflectingly (Prov. 15:14), pours it out (Prov. 15:2), and returns to it like a dog to his vomit (Prov. 26:11). He is so in love with his folly and so dedicated to its preservation that 'It is better for a man to meet a bear robbed of her whelps, than a fool is his folly' (Prov. 17:12). The fool does not want to find the truth; he only wants to be self-justified in his own imaginations. While he may feign objectivity, 'A fool hath no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may reveal itself' (Prov. 18:2). He is committed to his own presuppositions and wishes to guard his autonomy. Thus he will not depart from evil (Prov. 13:19), and thus all his knowledgeable talk reveals nothing but perverse and lying lips (Prov. 10:18; 19:1). He may talk proudly, but "A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are a snare of his soul' (Prov. 18:7). He shall not endure the judgment of God (Ps. 5:5)."

Interesting how simply believing in the Christian god suddenly transforms oneself from a fool to a non-fool.

It's easy to call someone a fool if they don't believe in your god; but I'd like to see some reason behind just why I am a fool for not believing.

But...this has very little to do with the original post, and we haven't even gotten off the first page yet. Perhaps another thread should be created in another forum to discuss this.

 

[ErikViking]

Ah no Erik it doesn't swap. Islamists would be the ones killing people in the name of their religion now wouldn't they? Say it with me now VERY SLOWLY "The Muslims are the ones killing people and commiting acts of violence in the name of their religion NOT CHRISTIANS".

And don't give me that hooey about how during the Crusades Christians killed for their religion. Remember that was 800-1000 yeasrs ago. We are discussing current events. You may now return your mind to its upright position.

Well, I am not blind and I do recognize the problem. But everytime someone paints a totally black or white picture there are pieces missing. People suddenly gets very eager to mark other people with black or white labels. To me that seems to be a very good way to instigate conflicts.

The basic repeated message is: ALL muslims are BAD. ALL christians are GOOD.

When someone tries to point out good things about muslims, they are fighting for the wrong side and being deceptive. When someone tries to point out something bad about christians they are overwhelmed with explanations of how this "bad" differ from the really "bad" (the muslim bad).

The picture is askew. It is so skew it is hard to find anything as skew in the world... if we don't include... radical islamists! They also adopt a totally black and white perspective on the world.

That is why I think the post was reversible. And I don't think the war on terror is won by thinking like our enemy.

 

[nt250]

Interesting how simply believing in the Christian god suddenly transforms oneself from a fool to a non-fool.

It's easy to call someone a fool if they don't believe in your god; but I'd like to see some reason behind just why I am a fool for not believing.

But...this has very little to do with the original post, and we haven't even gotten off the first page yet. Perhaps another thread should be created in another forum to discuss this.

How does this have little to do with the initial post?

This kind of thing happens EVERY single time someone tells the truth about Islam. Christianity always gets brought up in comparison, and usually some Christian has to come along and "defend" their faith.

Or is that what you mean? That Islam should not be excused simply because of what another religion is? I agree. But good luck with that.

 

[nt250]

Futhermore:

If we are to understand how to answer the fool, if we are to be able to demonstrate that God has made the pseudo-wisdom of the world foolish, then we must first study the biblical conception of the fool and his foolishness. In scriptural perspective the fool is not basically a shallow-minded or illiterate ignoramus; he can be quite educated and sophisticated in social reckoning. However, he is a fool because he has forsaken the source of true wisdom in God in order to rely on his own (allegedly), self-sufficient, intellectual powers. He is unteachable (Prov. 10:8) and despises instruction (Prov. 15:5); whereas the wise man heeds council given to him, 'The way of a fool is right in his own eyes' (Prov. 12:15). The fool has utter self-confidence and imagines himself to be intellectually autonomous. 'He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool' (Prov. 28:26). A fool cannot think of himself as mistaken (Prov. 17:10). He judges matters according to his own pre-established standards of truth and right, and thus his own thoughts always turn out in the long run to be correct. The fool is sure that he can rely on his own rational authority and intellectual scrutiny. 'The fool beareth himself insolently and is confident' (Prov. 14:16), and therefore he utters his own mind (Prov. 29:11). In actuality, this autonomous man is dull, stubborn, boorish, obstinate and stupid. He professes himself to be wise, but from the opening of his mouth it is clear that he is (in the biblical sense) 'a fool' - his only wisdom would consist in keeping silent (Prov. 17:28). 'The heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness' (Prov. 12:23), and the fool flaunts his folly (Prov. 13:16). He eats up folly unreflectingly (Prov. 15:14), pours it out (Prov. 15:2), and returns to it like a dog to his vomit (Prov. 26:11). He is so in love with his folly and so dedicated to its preservation that 'It is better for a man to meet a bear robbed of her whelps, than a fool is his folly' (Prov. 17:12). The fool does not want to find the truth; he only wants to be self-justified in his own imaginations. While he may feign objectivity, 'A fool hath no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may reveal itself' (Prov. 18:2). He is committed to his own presuppositions and wishes to guard his autonomy. Thus he will not depart from evil (Prov. 13:19), and thus all his knowledgeable talk reveals nothing but perverse and lying lips (Prov. 10:18; 19:1). He may talk proudly, but "A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are a snare of his soul' (Prov. 18:7). He shall not endure the judgment of God (Ps. 5:5)."

Not exactly a good way to argue with an athiest.

I'm a woman, btw. But that's OK. I use a non gendar specific user name for a reason.

 

[ErikViking]

Exactly, it wasn't even true back then!

What wasn't true back then?

 

[Rico]

Not exactly a good way to argue with an athiest.

I'm a woman, btw. But that's OK. I use a non gendar specific user name for a reason.

Why argue with an athiest? Just responding to your calling me a stupid. Athiests are simply people who chose not to recognize the obvious, the existence of God and his creation, or feel jiltd by God because they percieve existence as "imperfect" or "unjust". All athiests I've ever known fit into one of these categories. Which one are you? Blind or just peeved?

 

[MissileMan]

Why argue with an athiest? Just responding to your calling me a stupid. Athiests are simply people who chose not to recognize the obvious, the existence of God and his creation, or feel jiltd by God because they percieve existence as "imperfect" or "unjust". All athiests I've ever known fit into one of these categories. Which one are you? Blind or just peeved?

How many hundreds of atheists have you "known" that would make it possible to assign all atheists into these two groups?

 

[Rico]

How many hundreds of atheists have you "known" that would make it possible to assign all atheists into these two groups?

Not hundreds. Are there hundreds? I knew dozens in college, was an arts & sciences major. Wonder if they're still athiests.. Doubt it. Life's lessons usually cure one of it. Enough though. Tell me which category describes you?

 

[Reneer]

How does this have little to do with the initial post?

This kind of thing happens EVERY single time someone tells the truth about Islam. Christianity always gets brought up in comparison, and usually some Christian has to come along and "defend" their faith.

Or is that what you mean? That Islam should not be excused simply because of what another religion is? I agree. But good luck with that.

I was mostly referring to the idea that simply believing - or not believing - in a religion doesn't make anyone a fool, in the modern or the biblical sense. I felt that what (in my interpretation) Rico was doing - condemning those who don't believe in a Christian god (by citing biblical verses that call those people fools) - wasn't really on-topic in regards to the original post, which was talking about the willingness of Islamic fundamentalists to prove the Byzantine ruler correct, which I find rather stupid. I would think the last thing you want to do when you are charged with being violent is to start firebombing buildings.

Athiests are simply people who chose not to recognize the obvious, the existence of God and his creation, or feel jiltd by God because they percieve existence as "imperfect" or "unjust". All athiests I've ever known fit into one of these categories. Which one are you? Blind or just peeved?

Well, quite frankly, I'm an atheist that you don't know, so please refrain from trying to simply force me into a box of your choosing. I'll choose my own box, thank you very much.