Where did it all go wrong

[Unkotare]

German writer sums up how Germany feels about the US. It's probably how most western countries feel.

"Peter Schneider, the novelist and journalist, expressed the attitude this way: “[The US] has created a model of a savior, and now we find by looking at you that you are not perfect at all—much less, you are actually corrupt, you are terrible businessmen, you have no ideals anymore.” With the Iraq War, Guantánamo, drones, the unmet expectations of the Obama Presidency, and now spying, “you actually have acted against your own promises, and so we feel very deceived.”

NB: This comes from a piece written in The New Yorker which is behind a pay wall so cannot link. Also, for all the Trump haters out there (of which I am one), the piece was written in 2015 when Obama was in office.

We just kept dropping our standards and dropping our standards until they dropped below those of other countries. Examples:

• Identifying victim groups and lowering expectations specifically for them
• Watching our culture decay quickly and doing nothing about it
• Not regulating our financial institutions effectively enough because they "create wealth"
• Making excuses for our political "leaders" when they lie and cheat, make horrible decision and/or accomplish nothing
• Allowed shallow partisanship to decay to a point where we hate each other and want to beat each other more than we love the country
  
• Raised a full generation of children who can't write or speak our language but can really play video games
  
• Choosing to forget that during our strongest years, we maintained a strong socio-economic safety net

This, as I say all the time, is a self-inflicted wound.
.

Most of those points other countries don’t care about or are worse. And when was this generation that can’t speak or write?

Right now.

....
.

That’s not true. Stop exaggerating.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Nobody here gives a shit what Germany thinks.

The world now cares more about what they think than they do what the U.S. does. That is because of Trump.

You should start packing.....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Merkel's Germany is the LAST nation on earth to give opinions about USA or any other country for that matter!

The nerve!

Yes the nerve of a good, free country with voting rights and happy people. Wow they are so bad. Oh and an ally of ours.

what Germany are you talking about? this one?

So we F'd up the middle east forcing Germany to take refugees as any good nation would, and they are bad guys now?

The only one's that forced them is the globalist,which of course Merkle is neck deep in as is barry and the clintons.

 

[Mac1958]

German writer sums up how Germany feels about the US. It's probably how most western countries feel.

"Peter Schneider, the novelist and journalist, expressed the attitude this way: “[The US] has created a model of a savior, and now we find by looking at you that you are not perfect at all—much less, you are actually corrupt, you are terrible businessmen, you have no ideals anymore.” With the Iraq War, Guantánamo, drones, the unmet expectations of the Obama Presidency, and now spying, “you actually have acted against your own promises, and so we feel very deceived.”

NB: This comes from a piece written in The New Yorker which is behind a pay wall so cannot link. Also, for all the Trump haters out there (of which I am one), the piece was written in 2015 when Obama was in office.

We just kept dropping our standards and dropping our standards until they dropped below those of other countries. Examples:

• Identifying victim groups and lowering expectations specifically for them
• Watching our culture decay quickly and doing nothing about it
• Not regulating our financial institutions effectively enough because they "create wealth"
• Making excuses for our political "leaders" when they lie and cheat, make horrible decision and/or accomplish nothing
• Allowed shallow partisanship to decay to a point where we hate each other and want to beat each other more than we love the country
  
• Raised a full generation of children who can't write or speak our language but can really play video games
  
• Choosing to forget that during our strongest years, we maintained a strong socio-economic safety net

This, as I say all the time, is a self-inflicted wound.
.

Most of those points other countries don’t care about or are worse. And when was this generation that can’t speak or write?

Right now.

....
.

That’s not true. Stop exaggerating.

Yes sir!
.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

[Q

Doubledareme, you have made many lame post here, but this one I can’t let slide. You clearly have not read any history of our civil war, but fear not, I will take pity on your ignorant ass, and educate you.

Slavery was not the cause that started the civil war. Lincoln engaged in the war for one underlying reason- to preserve the Union. He ultimately determined that adjoining slavery to his real cause would allow him the best opportunity to win the war and preserve the Union. In fact, Lincoln would have allowed slavery to continue, if he thought it would allow him to preserve the Union. Read this passage. When you’re done go ahead and read some more civil war history, so you can be more informed about this country than the average German writer.
What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it"
If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I

What a load of crap. It was about slavery. If there was no slavery, what would he have been saving the union from?

You do not know or understand history. There is no reputable source that will tell you the civil war was caused and fought over slavery. Sorry, I can’t fix stupid.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

With the exception of the Westwall, all the other replies are just jingoistic crap. Yeah, let's judge Germany on something that happened 70 years ago. I can easily harangue every other state in the world for unlawful killings. Whether it be 6,000 or 6 million. Dead is dead. I'm talking about the here and now.

Well shit man. Didn’t you judge your country over a civil wage faught between 1860-1865? And it was not fought over slaver entirely, it was fought over states rights!

The only States Right was to keep humans as property,

Doubledareme, you have made many lame post here, but this one I can’t let slide. You clearly have not read any history of our civil war, but fear not, I will take pity on your ignorant ass, and educate you.

Slavery was not the cause that started the civil war. Lincoln engaged in the war for one underlying reason- to preserve the Union. He ultimately determined that adjoining slavery to his real cause would allow him the best opportunity to win the war and preserve the Union. In fact, Lincoln would have allowed slavery to continue, if he thought it would allow him to preserve the Union. Read this passage. When you’re done go ahead and read some more civil war history, so you can be more informed about this country than the average German writer.
What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it"
If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I

If you read the statements of Jefferson Davis prior to the Civil War, you will find that slavery was indeed the cause of the Civil War. It was inevitable that slavery would end here as it had in every other civilized nation. And the South was going to do everything that it could to prevent that, including Civil War.

If you’ve got a point to make, back it up with a reliable link. It was clear that Lincoln would allow slavery to exist if it meant he could preserve the Union. In fact, he used the Emancipation Proclamation executive order as a threat to the rebel states, telling them he would free the slaves if they continued the rebellion. Sorry, History is what it is, and no amount of wishing and dreaming will change it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

With the exception of the Westwall, all the other replies are just jingoistic crap. Yeah, let's judge Germany on something that happened 70 years ago. I can easily harangue every other state in the world for unlawful killings. Whether it be 6,000 or 6 million. Dead is dead. I'm talking about the here and now.

Well shit man. Didn’t you judge your country over a civil wage faught between 1860-1865? And it was not fought over slaver entirely, it was fought over states rights!

The only States Right was to keep humans as property,

Doubledareme, you have made many lame post here, but this one I can’t let slide. You clearly have not read any history of our civil war, but fear not, I will take pity on your ignorant ass, and educate you.

Slavery was not the cause that started the civil war. Lincoln engaged in the war for one underlying reason- to preserve the Union. He ultimately determined that adjoining slavery to his real cause would allow him the best opportunity to win the war and preserve the Union. In fact, Lincoln would have allowed slavery to continue, if he thought it would allow him to preserve the Union. Read this passage. When you’re done go ahead and read some more civil war history, so you can be more informed about this country than the average German writer.
What is the context of Lincoln saying: "if I could save the union without freeing any slave I would do it"
If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I

If you read the statements of Jefferson Davis prior to the Civil War, you will find that slavery was indeed the cause of the Civil War. It was inevitable that slavery would end here as it had in every other civilized nation. And the South was going to do everything that it could to prevent that, including Civil War.

If you’ve got a point to make, back it up with a reliable link. It was clear that Lincoln would allow slavery to exist if it meant he could preserve the Union. In fact, he used the Emancipation Proclamation executive order as a threat to the rebel states, telling them he would free the slaves if they continued the rebellion. Sorry, History is what it is, and no amount of wishing and dreaming will change it.

Everything you've posted is correct, Buck.....

...but that doesn't mean that Lincoln favored slavery.

"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel."
The Collected Works of Abraham Lincolnedited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Letter to Albert G. Hodges" (April 4, 1864), p. 281.

 

[Dr Grump]

[
.what do you think the problem is?[QUOTE="D

The almighty dollar is God. Only 'I' matter. Anybody not white is a problem.

Who's mantras are these?

 

[Dr Grump]

While it's true our country has it's problems, one problem we don't need is getting a European approval. If you don't like our country, then don't pay attention to our country. Guess what? We'll do fine without you or your opinions of us.

When you solve all your problems there, then think about giving us advice. Until then, trial, error and imperfections are commonplace in nearly every nation on this planet.

If only decisions made in Washington didn't have a knock-on/spill over effect to the rest of us. You might have a good point.

Care to provide an example of what you claim here?

Example? I can give hundreds.

Korea
Iraq
Allende in Chile
Iran Contra
Vietnam

I could go on...and on....and on...

 

[Dr Grump]

German writer sums up how Germany feels about the US. It's probably how most western countries feel.

"Peter Schneider, the novelist and journalist, expressed the attitude this way: “[The US] has created a model of a savior, and now we find by looking at you that you are not perfect at all—much less, you are actually corrupt, you are terrible businessmen, you have no ideals anymore.” With the Iraq War, Guantánamo, drones, the unmet expectations of the Obama Presidency, and now spying, “you actually have acted against your own promises, and so we feel very deceived.”

NB: This comes from a piece written in The New Yorker which is behind a pay wall so cannot link. Also, for all the Trump haters out there (of which I am one), the piece was written in 2015 when Obama was in office.

We just kept dropping our standards and dropping our standards until they dropped below those of other countries. Examples:

• Identifying victim groups and lowering expectations specifically for them
• Watching our culture decay quickly and doing nothing about it
• Not regulating our financial institutions effectively enough because they "create wealth"
• Making excuses for our political "leaders" when they lie and cheat, make horrible decision and/or accomplish nothing
• Allowed partisanship to decay to a point where we hate each other & want to beat each other more than we love the country
  
• Raised a full generation of children who can't write or speak our language but can really play video games
  
• Choosing to forget that during our strongest years, we maintained a strong socio-economic safety net

This, as I say all the time, is a self-inflicted wound. These are all choices we've made.
.

Of all your points, the one that is the biggest problem IMO is the partisanship one. Happening now here in Australia. Politicians (and great examples of it here on the USMB, too) are so het up of getting 'one over' on the opposition they actually forget to govern for the people. They are more concerned about the 'gotcha' and news headline that makes them look good than actually doing anything. Having an idiot tweet all the time is a classic example.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

The only one's that forced them is the globalist,which of course Merkle is neck deep in as is barry and the clintons.

As if globilisation is a bad thing.

 

[Mac1958]

German writer sums up how Germany feels about the US. It's probably how most western countries feel.

"Peter Schneider, the novelist and journalist, expressed the attitude this way: “[The US] has created a model of a savior, and now we find by looking at you that you are not perfect at all—much less, you are actually corrupt, you are terrible businessmen, you have no ideals anymore.” With the Iraq War, Guantánamo, drones, the unmet expectations of the Obama Presidency, and now spying, “you actually have acted against your own promises, and so we feel very deceived.”

NB: This comes from a piece written in The New Yorker which is behind a pay wall so cannot link. Also, for all the Trump haters out there (of which I am one), the piece was written in 2015 when Obama was in office.

We just kept dropping our standards and dropping our standards until they dropped below those of other countries. Examples:

• Identifying victim groups and lowering expectations specifically for them
• Watching our culture decay quickly and doing nothing about it
• Not regulating our financial institutions effectively enough because they "create wealth"
• Making excuses for our political "leaders" when they lie and cheat, make horrible decision and/or accomplish nothing
• Allowed partisanship to decay to a point where we hate each other & want to beat each other more than we love the country
  
• Raised a full generation of children who can't write or speak our language but can really play video games
  
• Choosing to forget that during our strongest years, we maintained a strong socio-economic safety net

This, as I say all the time, is a self-inflicted wound. These are all choices we've made.
.

Of all your points, the one that is the biggest problem IMO is the partisanship one. Happening now here in Australia. Politicians (and great examples of it here on the USMB, too) are so het up of getting 'one over' on the opposition they actually forget to govern for the people. They are more concerned about the 'gotcha' and news headline that makes them look good than actually doing anything. Having an idiot tweet all the time is a classic example.

Sorry to hear it's happening there, too. The infection appears to be spreading.
.

 

[Dr Grump]

[

You do not know or understand history. There is no reputable source that will tell you the civil war was caused and fought over slavery. Sorry, I can’t fix stupid.

Hey, I know that you southerners think that it wasn't and that is fine. Every reputable source I know says it was slavery. If not, what was it about? Oh, the North trying to impose its will on the South? Because? Oh that's right, the southern economy was based on cotton. Which couldn't function economically for the plantation owners without....



.....wait for it...






...slavery!!!

Now you may sit on your high horse thinking you have an intellectually superior knowledge, however, you give me any reason and I'll lead it back to slavery every time.

Gee, who to believe? A person who is embarrassed that his country still believed in an institution that all other civilised countries had kicked to the curb, or all the highly educated, vast majority of historians....

It's a hard one I tell ya..

 

[Meathead]

German writer sums up how Germany feels about the US. It's probably how most western countries feel.

"Peter Schneider, the novelist and journalist, expressed the attitude this way: “[The US] has created a model of a savior, and now we find by looking at you that you are not perfect at all—much less, you are actually corrupt, you are terrible businessmen, you have no ideals anymore.” With the Iraq War, Guantánamo, drones, the unmet expectations of the Obama Presidency, and now spying, “you actually have acted against your own promises, and so we feel very deceived.”

NB: This comes from a piece written in The New Yorker which is behind a pay wall so cannot link. Also, for all the Trump haters out there (of which I am one), the piece was written in 2015 when Obama was in office.

Obviously Obama was a failure. Did you think we needed some Kraut to tell us that?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

While it's true our country has it's problems, one problem we don't need is getting a European approval. If you don't like our country, then don't pay attention to our country. Guess what? We'll do fine without you or your opinions of us.

When you solve all your problems there, then think about giving us advice. Until then, trial, error and imperfections are commonplace in nearly every nation on this planet.

If only decisions made in Washington didn't have a knock-on/spill over effect to the rest of us. You might have a good point.

Care to provide an example of what you claim here?

Example? I can give hundreds.

Korea
Iraq
Allende in Chile
Iran Contra
Vietnam

I could go on...and on....and on...

So what did any of those issues have to do with you?

 

[Dr Grump]

While it's true our country has it's problems, one problem we don't need is getting a European approval. If you don't like our country, then don't pay attention to our country. Guess what? We'll do fine without you or your opinions of us.

When you solve all your problems there, then think about giving us advice. Until then, trial, error and imperfections are commonplace in nearly every nation on this planet.

If only decisions made in Washington didn't have a knock-on/spill over effect to the rest of us. You might have a good point.

Care to provide an example of what you claim here?

Example? I can give hundreds.

Korea
Iraq
Allende in Chile
Iran Contra
Vietnam

I could go on...and on....and on...

So what did any of those issues have to do with you?

Nothing. What did they have to do with the US? Nothing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

While it's true our country has it's problems, one problem we don't need is getting a European approval. If you don't like our country, then don't pay attention to our country. Guess what? We'll do fine without you or your opinions of us.

When you solve all your problems there, then think about giving us advice. Until then, trial, error and imperfections are commonplace in nearly every nation on this planet.

If only decisions made in Washington didn't have a knock-on/spill over effect to the rest of us. You might have a good point.

Care to provide an example of what you claim here?

Example? I can give hundreds.

Korea
Iraq
Allende in Chile
Iran Contra
Vietnam

I could go on...and on....and on...

So what did any of those issues have to do with you?

Nothing. What did they have to do with the US? Nothing.

We were not discussing what they had to do with the US. You made a claim that what we do here affects you in Australia. And you provided a list of things that have nothing to do with you instead. Don't try to deflect. If you made an error, just admit it.