Where are you?

[ChrisL]

I'm not in favor of forcing women to do anything. What I do emphatically oppose is the sugar coating of abortion with descriptions like "pro choice" and desensitizing abortion like destroying a human life is no big deal, like having a mole removed.

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

 

[Plasmaball]

Today, four gays died by the hands of the radical Islamist terror group, ISIS, they threw them from a high rise. For all of you celebrating the SCOTUS ruling legalizing gay marriage here, where are you? Where is your outrage against this atrocity? I have all along said that the fight for gay rights with some of you are nothing but a hollow cause. If anything, gays deserve the same rights worldwide. All gays won for them was a right to marry, here in America. But over there, nobody is fighting for their right to simply exist. But, alas, where are you? Where are all of the self professed gay rights warriors now?

Four gay men were executed by members of the Islamic State following the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide Friday.

As was reported by a Syrian Twitter user on a tweet posted on the #LoveWins hashtag and picked up by Gateway Pundit, the men were thrown off the roof of a highrise building in the Syrian city of Deir ez-Zor as a crowd gathered to watch below.

Several Islamists also reportedly sent out anti-gay messages on the social networking site using the hashtag #LoveWins. That hashtag was used by many worldwide to celebrate the ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges.

ISIS Responds to SCOTUS Gay Marriage Ruling by Showing 4 Gays What the Islamic State Thinks of It

so your example is ISIS, who basically kills anyone and everything because they are ISIS.
You are one stupid motherfucker you know that potato head?

 

[BluesLegend]

You are just uncomfortable with people pointing out the horror of abortion and poking holes in the excuses you tell yourself to make it seem okay to kill a helpless human life in the womb.

No, I am just a person who tries to take on a realistic perspective of the world around me. I don't think it is a good idea to force women, who may not be very good people, to have babies.

Also, I find it rather hypocritical that a lot of conservatives would like to force women to have babies but then have NO plans on how to care for all of these unwanted babies.

I'm not in favor of forcing women to do anything. What I do emphatically oppose is the sugar coating of abortion with descriptions like "pro choice" and desensitizing abortion like destroying a human life is no big deal, like having a mole removed.

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Did you even read the thread? There was deep discussion on that topic and common ground reached, not that you would care I guess.

 

[Coyote]

I just expanded on your logic, why waste money then on fetuses with birth defects?

We shouldn't, they should be aborted, especially trisomes. We already have too many healthy children to care for without additional sick ones.

Reminder: I ignore your stupid posts.

You suggested that helpless human fetuses should be killed because nobody is willing to pay for the drug addicted mom and baby's medical care and hospital stays. I just expanded on your logic, why waste money then on fetuses with birth defects? Your attempt to excuse abortion puts you on a very slippery slope.

Because those babies are WANTED by their parents. It is up to the potential parent whether or not they will become a parent, not you!

You are in free fall on this slippery slope now, so the bar should be if you don't want the baby just kill it in the womb? Does the mom have no responsibility to the fetus for getting pregnant in the first place?

Sadly, no, some women do not. Some people are drug addicts, some are just not very good people, etc. I'm sure some have perfectly legitimate reasons too. My point being, it's really not MY business. If it was someone I know or a family member of mine, then that's a little different. I feel then I would have some advice to give, but still not my place to force a pregnancy or a baby on another person. It's their decision. If they want to do that and live with that, that's on them. The people who actually want to be parents and would be good parents won't be aborting their children.

Not all people - not even most people - have abortions because they are "bad people" or even drug addicts. They find themselves pregnant, at a bad time in life, for what ever reason. Maybe birth control failed, maybe she's still in highschool, maybe the family lost their jobs or their homes.

Sure. That's why I said some women.

There are some seriously messed up people in this world though and they probably have no business being parents. Just look around THIS place for an example!

true...but don't you find the seroiusly messed up people are the ones that keep having kids?

I have a friend who was my dog's physical therapist - her other other job is physical therapist for disabled children 0-3. Lots of her kids are kids born out of drug abuse, alcohal abuse and kids having kids. It's really sad - she loves the kids and does it for the kids, some of the parents really care...some see it as a free state service and don't even bother to work with their kids.

 

[BluesLegend]

I'm not in favor of forcing women to do anything. What I do emphatically oppose is the sugar coating of abortion with descriptions like "pro choice" and desensitizing abortion like destroying a human life is no big deal, like having a mole removed.

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

I accept your apology.

 

[ChrisL]

When I was pregnant, I remember feeling "life" at about the 3 or 4-month mark into my pregnancy. I remember lying in my bed on my belly and feeling "something" fluttering around in there (that's what it felt like, like a fluttering feeling). That is when I first really came to the realization that there was actually a living being residing inside my tummy!!! This is why I feel kind of uncomfortable with abortions past the first trimester.

 

[Coyote]

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

 

[Coyote]

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

I accept your apology.

I accept your idiocy. Can we move on from here or shall we continue with this foolishness?

 

[ChrisL]

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

We will have to disagree here. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get your affairs in order. Like I said, if there are problems with the fetus, that is another story. I'm talking elective abortion here.

 

[Coyote]

No, I am just a person who tries to take on a realistic perspective of the world around me. I don't think it is a good idea to force women, who may not be very good people, to have babies.

Also, I find it rather hypocritical that a lot of conservatives would like to force women to have babies but then have NO plans on how to care for all of these unwanted babies.

I'm not in favor of forcing women to do anything. What I do emphatically oppose is the sugar coating of abortion with descriptions like "pro choice" and desensitizing abortion like destroying a human life is no big deal, like having a mole removed.

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Did you even read the thread? There was deep discussion on that topic and common ground reached, not that you would care I guess.

Again - how about you injecting your own words into my statements?

 

[ChrisL]

Think about this for a minute. After about the 4 or 5-month mark, you really start to notice your baby's activity level increase. The baby is moving around inside the tummy all day long sometimes. You can feel it and you can see it. I remember when a little baby body part would poke out and I would try to guess which part it was, the butt, the elbow, the knee, etc. Now, how on EARTH could a woman go get an abortion at that point during the pregnancy? Gosh, I don't think I could LIVE with myself!!!

 

[Coyote]

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

We will have to disagree here. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get your affairs in order. Like I said, if there are problems with the fetus, that is another story. I'm talking elective abortion here.

We can agree to disagree.

The way I see it - first month, you might not even know you are pregnant - in fact maybe not for the first two months if you are irregular. You then need to find a clinic, get there, deal with the state's mandated waiting times or other obstacles - often necessitating more than one visit and come up with the money. What if you are a kid afraid to tell your parents or, the victim of incest?

 

[BluesLegend]

I'm not in favor of forcing women to do anything. What I do emphatically oppose is the sugar coating of abortion with descriptions like "pro choice" and desensitizing abortion like destroying a human life is no big deal, like having a mole removed.

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Did you even read the thread? There was deep discussion on that topic and common ground reached, not that you would care I guess.

Again - how about you injecting your own words into my statements?

Do you need me to quote your post where you started the entire line of discussion on trimesters or the post where you moved the goal posts back to the 1st trimester after I researched your post and found out how many 2nd trimester abortions were occuring...no need to answer we are done here.

 

[ChrisL]

Probably because of me. I was saying that I wouldn't have a problem with limiting abortion to the first trimester (except for cases like you mentioned, where the mother's life is in danger, baby is severely deformed, etc.)

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

We will have to disagree here. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get your affairs in order. Like I said, if there are problems with the fetus, that is another story. I'm talking elective abortion here.

We can agree to disagree.

The way I see it - first month, you might not even know you are pregnant - in fact maybe not for the first two months if you are irregular. You then need to find a clinic, get there, deal with the state's mandated waiting times or other obstacles - often necessitating more than one visit and come up with the money. What if you are a kid afraid to tell your parents or, the victim of incest?

Sorry but 3 months is plenty of time. That is 12 weeks. If you don't know you're pregnant by then, you are in denial and that is all. Lack of a period is not the ONLY symptom of pregnancy.

What you are talking about with being a kid? I was a kid. I managed.

 

[Coyote]

Think about this for a minute. After about the 4 or 5-month mark, you really start to notice your baby's activity level increase. The baby is moving around inside the tummy all day long sometimes. You can feel it and you can see it. I remember when a little baby body part would poke out and I would try to guess which part it was, the butt, the elbow, the knee, etc. Now, how on EARTH could a woman go get an abortion at that point during the pregnancy? Gosh, I don't think I could LIVE with myself!!!

89-92% of all abortions happen during the first trimester prior to the 13th week of gestation so 2nd trimester abortions are a very small group but there can be some good reasons for it: Why women have second trimester abortions - Salon.com

 

[Coyote]

Calling it "pro-choice" is not sugar-coating anything. It describes what it is. It isn't "pro-abortion" - it's supporting the pregnant woman's right to make choices.

Why not call "pro-life" - "anti-choice" or maybe "pro-some-life".

When it's literally nothing more than a microscopic clump of cells - what is so special about it? What makes it special?

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Did you even read the thread? There was deep discussion on that topic and common ground reached, not that you would care I guess.

Again - how about you injecting your own words into my statements?

Do you need me to quote your post where you started the entire line of discussion on trimesters or the post where you moved the goal posts back to the 1st trimester after I researched your post and found out how many 2nd trimester abortions were occuring...no need to answer we are done here.

Actually...you seem butt in with what seem like non-sequiters and one liners rather than carrying on a conversation. I have no problem conversing with ChrisL. You on the other hand...

 

[Coyote]

I'm not quite willing to limit it to the first trimester only...but I would definately not agree with elective abortions in the third trimester.

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

We will have to disagree here. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get your affairs in order. Like I said, if there are problems with the fetus, that is another story. I'm talking elective abortion here.

We can agree to disagree.

The way I see it - first month, you might not even know you are pregnant - in fact maybe not for the first two months if you are irregular. You then need to find a clinic, get there, deal with the state's mandated waiting times or other obstacles - often necessitating more than one visit and come up with the money. What if you are a kid afraid to tell your parents or, the victim of incest?

Sorry but 3 months is plenty of time. That is 12 weeks. If you don't know you're pregnant by then, you are in denial and that is all. Lack of a period is not the ONLY symptom of pregnancy.

What you are talking about with being a kid? I was a kid. I managed.

Good for you (not meant sarcastically) - you were fortunate. Not all are. Some get thrown out, some get beaten - some are terrified. Some have supportive families, some manage to get through it some don't. If you don't have much of an education - you might well not know you are pregnant or be indenial.

 

[BluesLegend]

100,000+ 2nd trimester abortions a year are just a microscopic clump of cells? Why don't you return when we can have an honest discussion which my guess will be never.

Who was talking about 2nd trimester abortions?

How about you stop injecting your own words into another person's statements and then maybe we can discuss things like adults.

Did you even read the thread? There was deep discussion on that topic and common ground reached, not that you would care I guess.

Again - how about you injecting your own words into my statements?

Do you need me to quote your post where you started the entire line of discussion on trimesters or the post where you moved the goal posts back to the 1st trimester after I researched your post and found out how many 2nd trimester abortions were occuring...no need to answer we are done here.

Actually...you seem butt in with what seem like non-sequiters and one liners rather than carrying on a conversation. I have no problem conversing with ChrisL. You on the other hand...

Obviously you are wrong, and if you bothered to read the posts between ChrisL and I you would know this. But it matters not I honestly don't care what you think at this point, have yourself a nice day.

 

[ChrisL]

Why not? Why not limit it to the first trimester (exceptions for problems)?

Because there are a lot of legitimate factors that can force a woman into a 2nd trimester abortion, including cost and access barriers (distance to travel, inability to get off work or have transportation, mandated waiting periods), late detection of pregnancy, and difficulty deciding whether to continue the pregnancy. These - coupled with increasingly draconian measures designed to close down low-cost clinics mean that poor women are particularly vulnerable. Also many genetic and health conditions in the fetus are not diagnosed until after the twelfth week of pregnancy.

We will have to disagree here. I think 3 months is plenty of time to get your affairs in order. Like I said, if there are problems with the fetus, that is another story. I'm talking elective abortion here.

We can agree to disagree.

The way I see it - first month, you might not even know you are pregnant - in fact maybe not for the first two months if you are irregular. You then need to find a clinic, get there, deal with the state's mandated waiting times or other obstacles - often necessitating more than one visit and come up with the money. What if you are a kid afraid to tell your parents or, the victim of incest?

Sorry but 3 months is plenty of time. That is 12 weeks. If you don't know you're pregnant by then, you are in denial and that is all. Lack of a period is not the ONLY symptom of pregnancy.

What you are talking about with being a kid? I was a kid. I managed.

Good for you (not meant sarcastically) - you were fortunate. Not all are. Some get thrown out, some get beaten - some are terrified. Some have supportive families, some manage to get through it some don't. If you don't have much of an education - you might well not know you are pregnant or be indenial.

Of course there are going to be exceptions to every rule. Generally speaking, MOST people would know they were pregnant by the 3rd month. I did and I was 16 years old.