Where are all the peaceful muslims?

[dilloduck]

The usual damned if you do, and damned if you dont. When American Christians stand up for their values, they are called oppresive and mean spirited. When they become tolerant, they are considered having covertly converted to capitalism. Cant win for losing, ahhh, what the hell.

I have never criticized Christians for standing up for thier values. I posed a possiblity for Christians not resorting to Muslim behavior. You can stop the victim routine now.

 

[theHawk]

Why do we only hear about the enraged muslims? If the majority of the muslims are in fact peaceful then why are they not lining up to condemn these radicals that are allegedly bastardizing their religion?

Silenced....like the minority opinion on a plantation.

 

[Mariner]

with Saudi Arabia. He is very clear about that he is as angry with the Saudi royal family for allying with us and permitting our military bases there as he is at us.

As for "seeing a rattlesnake and killing it," GunnyL, the problem with the idea of "War on Terror," is that terror is a technique not an army. So it's not exactly clear whom to kill. Terrorists are made, not born like rattlesnakes, so if you want to eliminate them, it becomes important to examine the process that makes them. Saying "kill them all" feels good, but won't work if more are continually being made, and if it only takes a handful to commit a major terrorist act.

Re: comparing Irish Catholic tacit support for the I.R.A. with moderate Muslims' unwililngness to speak out against Muslim terrorists--I can't imagine a better parallel. In what way is the situation not parallel? The IRA purposefully killed 3500 British civilians to try to force the British out of Northern Ireland. How is that different from Al Qaeda killing nearly 3000 U.S. civilians to try to get the U.S. military bases out of Saudi Arabia? U.S. Catholics did not widely denounce the I.R.A., and actually sent it money and still sing Republican songs as part of the culture--even though when asked directly, they would say terrorism was wrong. Seems like a good parallel to me.

Mariner.

 

[KarlMarx]

Well... the peace loving Muslim nations had damn well better start to stand up to those who are violent....

I saw another crowd of Muslims tear apart the offices of the ferry company whose boat sunk last week....

In this case, perception is reality. Muslims who refuse to do anything, or simply stand by and don't publicly reject those who are violent are in effect condoning what they do. After all silence is considered consent.

I believe that the Muslims are going to wake up one day and find that their worst enemy is a band of Muslims rather than the State of Israel.

 

[Bonnie]

Why do we only hear about the enraged muslims? If the majority of the muslims are in fact peaceful then why are they not lining up to condemn these radicals that are allegedly bastardizing their religion?

That's what I have been wondering. At this point now Im tired of wondering and I'm furious and sickened by this

http://www.canada.com/national/nati....html?id=53d7fd3d-83b5-4bfb-a03f-09a089d53709



Priest killed as fury grows
Gunman shouts, 'God is great,' then pulls trigger Nada Raad and Hannah Allam, Knight Ridder, with files from news services

- A Muslim protest over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad turned into a rampage that injured at least 30 people in Beirut yesterday, as outrage over the drawings spread across continents and widened the rift between Islam and the West.

Protesters in the Lebanese capital torched the Danish embassy, clashed with police and stoned a church -- the most violent reaction yet to 12 cartoons lampooning the prophet that first appeared in a Danish newspaper and were reprinted in other media this month.

In Turkey, a Roman Catholic priest was shot dead yesterday in the courtyard of a church, a shooting authorities fear could be linked to the cartoon uproar.

Italian priest Andrea Santoro, 59, was shot twice in the entrance to the Santa Maria Catholic Church in the northern city of Trabzon.

The Vatican's ambassador to Turkey said the gunman shouted, "God is great" as he fired his pistol.

"We don't have much to go on to make a proper interpretation of what happened. However, the only element which a collaborator of Father Santoro's mentioned to me is that the person who killed him shouted, 'Allahu Akhbar,' " Monsignor Antonio Lucibello was quoted as saying by Italy's ANSA news agency. The acclamation, used in prayer, is also employed as a rallying cry by Islamic militants.

Muslims in several cities throughout the Middle East and Europe have stormed foreign embassies, burned Danish flags, staged massive demonstrations and launched a boycott that is costing Danish firms an estimated US$2-million a day.

One protester, among those who set the Danish consulate on fire in Beirut, was encircled by flames and died after jumping from the third floor.

Lebanese Interior Minister Hassan al-Sabaa resigned yesterday after police used tear gas and water cannons to disperse thousands of protesters, some of whom ransacked and burned the consulate and hurled rocks at police.

''We had two solutions: either to try to keep people away [from consulate] as we did, or to use weapons against them,'' he told reporters. ''I am a person who would never order the use of arms against the Lebanese.''

The world's leading Islamic body rejected the violence.

''Overreactions surpassing the limits of peaceful democratic acts ... are dangerous and detrimental to the efforts to defend the legitimate case of the Muslim world,'' the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference said in a statement.

Naser Khader, a moderate Muslim leader in Denmark, said the sudden explosion of protests against four-month-old cartoons had more to do with manoeuvres by the Syrian government and rival Palestinian factions than religion.

Mr. Khader, a Syrian born-Danish MP, told the Spanish newspaper La Vanguardia: ''This is not only about the cartoons, there are other agendas. ''In Palestine, those who lost the elections were the first to protest, even though Hamas is more religious -- they needed to show they were good Muslims. And [President Bashar] Assad, in Syria, has never been religious. Now he is saying the cartoons are a problem.'''

 

[dilloduck]

Bush needs to call Islam out on the carpet and let's get the ball rolling on this one. He's been very careful to condemn only the extremist but it's time for the secular world to get an explanation of Islams' intentions--from clerics !!!

 

[Adam's Apple]

I think we've seen those "peaceful" Muslims, no longer silent, come out of the woodwork in the streets of Syria and Lebanon, marching, burning flags, and demanding that the Danish cartoonist have his hands cut off. These people seemed to me to be "rank and file" Muslims, not the radical terrorists. What barbarians! Still living in the 7th century and acting like it. Is it any wonder the civilized world left them behind a long time ago? I guess I would be angry and humiliated, too, if I were one of them. Instead of blaming Western civilization for their state of affairs, they should take a good look deep inside their caliphate. And the West is doing them no favors by making excuses for them.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Why do we only hear about the enraged muslims? If the majority of the muslims are in fact peaceful then why are they not lining up to condemn these radicals that are allegedly bastardizing their religion?

If it bleeds, it leads.

There is little, or no reporting about moderate Muslims condemning these actions in much the same way moderate Christians, which are the majority of Christians in this country, get little or no coverage in their protests against the radicals that ARE bastardizing their religion.

The radicals fame the flames of intolerance, fear, stupidity and greed. Besides, they produce outrageous sound-bites and images, thus making good copy, which in turn sells more adverts, thus generating more income.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Religious people who have covertly converted to capitalism are usually much less agressive unless someone threatens thier money. (security)

Spot on!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

with Saudi Arabia. He is very clear about that he is as angry with the Saudi royal family for allying with us and permitting our military bases there as he is at us.

As for "seeing a rattlesnake and killing it," GunnyL, the problem with the idea of "War on Terror," is that terror is a technique not an army. So it's not exactly clear whom to kill. Terrorists are made, not born like rattlesnakes, so if you want to eliminate them, it becomes important to examine the process that makes them. Saying "kill them all" feels good, but won't work if more are continually being made, and if it only takes a handful to commit a major terrorist act.

Re: comparing Irish Catholic tacit support for the I.R.A. with moderate Muslims' unwililngness to speak out against Muslim terrorists--I can't imagine a better parallel. In what way is the situation not parallel? The IRA purposefully killed 3500 British civilians to try to force the British out of Northern Ireland. How is that different from Al Qaeda killing nearly 3000 U.S. civilians to try to get the U.S. military bases out of Saudi Arabia? U.S. Catholics did not widely denounce the I.R.A., and actually sent it money and still sing Republican songs as part of the culture--even though when asked directly, they would say terrorism was wrong. Seems like a good parallel to me.

Mariner.

It's a bad parallel.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

with Saudi Arabia. He is very clear about that he is as angry with the Saudi royal family for allying with us and permitting our military bases there as he is at us.

As for "seeing a rattlesnake and killing it," GunnyL, the problem with the idea of "War on Terror," is that terror is a technique not an army. So it's not exactly clear whom to kill. Terrorists are made, not born like rattlesnakes, so if you want to eliminate them, it becomes important to examine the process that makes them. Saying "kill them all" feels good, but won't work if more are continually being made, and if it only takes a handful to commit a major terrorist act.

Re: comparing Irish Catholic tacit support for the I.R.A. with moderate Muslims' unwililngness to speak out against Muslim terrorists--I can't imagine a better parallel. In what way is the situation not parallel? The IRA purposefully killed 3500 British civilians to try to force the British out of Northern Ireland. How is that different from Al Qaeda killing nearly 3000 U.S. civilians to try to get the U.S. military bases out of Saudi Arabia? U.S. Catholics did not widely denounce the I.R.A., and actually sent it money and still sing Republican songs as part of the culture--even though when asked directly, they would say terrorism was wrong. Seems like a good parallel to me.

Mariner.

The process that creates them is growing up in a despotic islamic theocracy. When we depose those regimes you libs still get pissed. There's no winning with you. Maybe that's the point. America must lose, according to you.

 

[dilloduck]

The process that creates them is growing up in a despotic islamic theocracy. When we depose those regimes you libs still get pissed. There's no winning with you. Maybe that's the point. America must lose, according to you.

Islam ITSELF creates people who have no problem with violence. It encourages violence against non-beleivers. How is the world going to attack a religion. The next meeting of world religious leaders outta be a doozy.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Islam ITSELF creates people who have no problem with violence. It encourages violence against non-beleivers. How is the world going to attack a religion. The next meeting of world religious leaders outta be a doozy.

There ought to be a way to legally separate a religion from a death cult, for national security and tax purposes.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I have a system: Let's go ahead and designate Islam as a death cult, and decide on the others on an "as needed" basis as they start killing people.

 

[Just a guy]

Why do we only hear about the enraged muslims? If the majority of the muslims are in fact peaceful then why are they not lining up to condemn these radicals that are allegedly bastardizing their religion?

I think I can answer this one.

I think many muslims are alot more devoted to their religion than the average christian. In fact I think it might be the only constant factor in their lives at all. So when cynical voilent groups starts their rioting, the rest face a dilemma: Divert from the only constant factor they ever known - or be quiet.
I can easyly forgive the silent in this case, they just don't know anything else (than Islam). The groups - and the leaders - that instigate all this is a whole other matter: They must be stopped.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think I can answer this one.

I think many muslims are alot more devoted to their religion than the average christian. In fact I think it might be the only constant factor in their lives at all. So when cynical voilent groups starts their rioting, the rest face a dilemma: Divert from the only constant factor they ever known - or be quiet.
I can easyly forgive the silent in this case, they just don't know anything else (than Islam). The groups - and the leaders - that instigate all this is a whole other matter: They must be stopped.

That's a nice explanation. But it will no longer suffice going forward. The only ones who can identify "the groups - and the leaders - and the instigators" are the muslims themselves. They must stand up or be thrown out with the bad apples.

 

[Annie]

I think I can answer this one.

I think many muslims are alot more devoted to their religion than the average christian. In fact I think it might be the only constant factor in their lives at all. So when cynical voilent groups starts their rioting, the rest face a dilemma: Divert from the only constant factor they ever known - or be quiet.
I can easyly forgive the silent in this case, they just don't know anything else (than Islam). The groups - and the leaders - that instigate all this is a whole other matter: They must be stopped.

Something to think about:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/773

Live Free or Die
From the desk of Paul Belien on Tue, 2006-02-07 00:03

It is easy to terrorise people. Just tell them that you will kill them and most people tend to shut up. Sometimes it does not work. This is the case with people who have made the motto of the great state of New Hampshire – “Live Free or die” – their own.

“Terrorism only works when people agree to live in fear,” a Brussels Journal reader wrote to me last week. She is not entirely right. Terrorists have a fall-back strategy when dealing with brave people who value freedom above their own lives. The terrorists just threaten to kill others. Indeed, it is one thing for the morally upright to stand for their own principles and be prepared to die for them, but quite another to realize that others will have to die for them. Many heroic people are tender-hearted, but the terrorists are neither. The real martyr is prepared to die so that others may live free, but not to let others die so that he may live free.

Last week it looked as if the threats of Muslim fanatics against European media defending their freedom of speech might have strengthened the latter’s resolve. Now that the fanatics are taking it out on Christians in the Middle East – killing priests, torching churches and taking Lebanon to the brink of civil war, all because of twelve drawings in Denmark – people are beginning to wonder whether our freedom is worth the lives of all these innocents. Perhaps the answer is “no.”

If the answer is “no,” however, a few conclusions should be drawn. First of all, forget the talk about Islam being a “religion of peace” and the arguments – also heard in our comments section – that Muslims would never attack Christians, never destroy churches, never burn bibles, never smash images of the Virgin Mary or of Jesus, because, they say, Jesus is also their prophet and they respect all religions.

Here is an e-mail we received today:

salam is what we say before talking. its mean peace for all. so alsalam alykom. we are muslim and we are totally angry about what happened. we respect all religion and we dont insult anyone what ever he or she beleives of. so am so upset and feel anger cause i really like denemark but now totally i don’t. i hope u`ll stop and apologize about what happened. we start and end of this word salam all. so salam all

If we were to adhere to the same type of peace (salam) as some Muslims do (let us hope only a minority) we would now be “totally angry” about what is happening to priests and churches in the Middle East, we would ask Syria and Turkey for apologies, and – if we did not get them – we would burn the Syrian and Turkish embassies to the ground, kill at least one imam and destroy a few mosques.

I am quite willing, however, to accept that the majority of the Muslims are moderates, that they are being terrorised by the radicals, that they do not condone the crimes currently committed by the radicals but that they are too frightened to speak out. Though there is evidence contradicting this (namely the fact that only last month in free and democratic elections in Palestine this so-called moderate majority voted overwhelmingly for… the terrorists) I remain willing to accept that the majority are moderates. Even then, however, the simple fact remains that those who are now reacting so violently to the twelve Danish cartoons make it quite clear by their violent reaction that they are only insulted because the cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb under his turban mirrors their own (not necessarily my) view of Islam: a religion of revenge, terror and bombs. “Above all else, the Devil cannot stand to be mocked,” C.S. Lewis said. Lewis was wrong: Above all else, the Devil cannot stand to be shown his own image. It is the truth that hurts.

The second conclusion to be drawn from the present cartoon case is that Europeans are apparently no longer free to do and say in their own countries what they want to do and say. The Danish cartoons were not published in a Muslim paper. They were printed in a privately-owned, regional newspaper in rural Denmark, addressing Danish subscribers, to illustrate an article about the freedom of expression in a multicultural society with a Muslim minority within its borders. The article and the cartoons were initiated by the complaint of a Danish author that he could not find an artist to illustrate a book about Muhammad. European media republishing the cartoons did so, not to insult Muslims but simply to inform their European readers and to allow them to make up their own minds about how “insulting” these drawings really are. The Brussels Journal, too, is not a website addressing the Muslim world, it is a European website, as its name indicates, about European (mostly EU) affairs. Saudis and other Muslims are welcome to read it, but not to tell us what to do or not to do. However, what did we receive in our mailbox during the past week from so-called adherents of “the religion of peace”? Death threats, pictures of burned bodies, and warnings to shut up about the cartoon case.

Today, we received the following e-mail from a Muslim, and though at least he does not threathen to kill us, he nevertheless wants us to shut up:

Kindly note that its not appropriate at all to talk about the matter of those shameful comics this much and to try to open this subject to discussion. i m a muslim and i m proud of being so, i m not a terrorist, i m not thinking of killing any body, i just want to be left to live in peace and thats whats mentioned in Quran.

We, too, want to live in peace, but for the short time that we, Europeans, still have before the era of Eurabia, we want to do so in our land according to our rules, not those of islam. Jyllands-Posten wondered whether this was still possible in a country with a Muslim minority. It found out that when a country has let in a Muslim minority it has let in the Muslim majority from the rest of the globe. Today Muslim radicals set the Middle East on fire, bullying their religious minorities, because we dare to “disrespect” them, our religious minority (which our political leaders have so foolishly allowed to enter our countries), by printing mild cartoons in our newspapers.

It is 1933 again and the SA is marching in Europe. This time they are not shouting “Heil Hitler,” but a creed I will not quote for fear of provoking them to kill a poor priest somewhere in Turkey, Palestine or Lebanon. Six years from now it will be 1939 and our future looks bleak. A war is about to begin, but Europe is in even worse shape than it was in the 1930s. It will not only have to overcome its islamofascist enemy, but it is dying because, when it lost its own religion about two decades ago, it embarked upon a protracted suicide by ceasing to procreate. The coming of Allah to a continent with an increasing population of elderly natives is inevitable. The young Muslim hordes are arrogant. Who can blame them? They smell victory. The Danish cartoon case shows us what deep down we know is going to happen. Soon we will be slaves. Christianity has left a religious vacuum in Europe and Islam is filling the void.

Another Muslim wrote to us today:

i am a muslim. peace be upon you firstly. prophet mohammed not only mercy for muslims but else for all the world and there is a difference between press freedom and the lack of freedom, we can not as muslims assault the christ because Islam orders us to respect all the prophets so we are better than you finally you are a part from the true concept of freedom. ISLAM IS COMING

It sure is. Europe has only itself to blame for this disaster. As if to make this clear the renowned Belgian cartoon award of the international “Knokke Humor Festival” yesterday awarded its first prize to a cartoon depicting a yawning Christ above the bed of an elderly couple lying with their backs to each other. Asked for a reaction to this cartoon, the Archbishop of Brussels, Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels, communicated through his spokesman: “We should be able to laugh at ourselves from time to time so that we do not take ourselves too seriously.”

Asked whether this self-relativization does not apply to Islam and the Danish cartoons, the Cardinal’s spokesman told the press: “One does not mock the essence of someone’s faith. It is forbidden to depict the prophet. If you do, what’s more with a bomb in his turban, then that is a provocation. Just look at the violent reactions. The cardinal does not condone this violence, but he believes our own freedom has its bounds.”

The Belgian Cardinal would be the perfect bishop for Christian dhimmis in the Muslim continent of Eurabia. We are in the closing years of the pre-Islamic era of Europe’s history, and The Brussels Journal is there to record them – so that America may hopefully gain some insights from this and learn from our fatal mistakes.

 

[dilloduck]

I have a system: Let's go ahead and designate Islam as a death cult, and decide on the others on an "as needed" basis as they start killing people.

Most sensible solution I have heard so far. If nothing else it will begin a dialogue where "moderates" (if there are any) can explain to us why we should tolerate a "religion" that condones killing. We can no longer pretend that it's only radicals we have a problem with. We have a problem with an entire religion. It's time to be honest.

 

[007]

The simplest solution... start killing muslims until the "peaceful" muslims say they'll clean up the rest, and if they don't, keep killing them until the problem is gone.

And if Iran builds and tosses a nuke, that should be the end of the road for militant muslims. That should be all the reason we need to wipe them out, once and for all, like a disease.

 

[dilloduck]

The simplest solution... kill 'em all.

Right--that's realistic