When Your Wife Doesn't Want It

[dmp]

See? And that's what I and my girlfriend were resisting. Husbands and wives shouldn't COMPETE. They are on the same team. The man is the captain, and the wife is the manager.

Or, the illustration I like to use is: The man is the head of the family, and the woman is the heart. The family body isn't going to get very far without BOTH those parts.

...the man is the head, the woman is the neck.

 

[Nienna]

...the man is the head, the woman is the neck.

Even better!

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Bingo. I grow SO Tired of women (generally) Bitching and complaining about their husbands. How often do a group of women get together, say, at a bus stop, and BRAG about their man's efforts to one-another? Ya know?

I've been working, mostly non-stop, since 1992. I've found that EVERYONE likes to be the Victim. Ask somebody in the office 'how's it going?' And you'll hear "Wayyy Too busy! I can't believe they are dumping all this work on me, blah blah blah". The only reply is to out-DO them:

"That's IT?? Oh yeah?? Well MY Situation sucks worse!! I have to do the job of FIFTEEN employees, and...AND...I have to PAY MY BOSS for the opportunity!"

SAHM's are no different...whether men or moms, quite often people seek praise by putting what THEY do in a very negative/stressed etc, light. Women bitch about their men because they want to be LOOKED UP TO for "having to put UP with all the stuff he does or doesn't do."

It's to the point where MY wife feels like she SHOULD NOT brag about me to her friends, lest they feel worse about their husbands.

My guess is, after Mary kept bragging, THEY would start bragging too - because mary would start getting MORE attention than those bitching....see what I mean?

In conclusion, we (as couples) need to do what it takes to ensure our spouse realizes how special and appreciated they are to us. It doesn't cut it to 'say it' now and again...or 'grunt' back when your spouse says something nice to you. Our spouses DESERVE our loyalty and praise. We need to FORCE a connection - daily if possible...Just yourself and the one who shares your heart, forehead-to-forehead...absorbing and refreshing and replenishing our very souls and junk.

How often do you hear guys complain about their girlfriends/wives?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

...the man is the head, the woman is the neck.

Yeah ok MBFGW

 

[dmp]

How often do you hear guys complain about their girlfriends/wives?

Rarely. Except for once in a great while, I hear guys BRAGGING about their women.

 

[Abbey Normal]

...
It's to the point where MY wife feels like she SHOULD NOT brag about me to her friends, lest they feel worse about their husbands.
...

I can really relate to this, D. I have found myself actually trying to think up something to complain about, so my friends wouldn't feel like I had it too good, or that my silence meant I was bragging by omission. Women's friendships really do build on sharing secrets though, so this phenomenon is not going to go away any time soon. I have also found that just when you get the most complacent in your marriage, is when everything goes haywire.


As for the debate over whose work is harder, IMO, there is no stress like mental stress. Physical exertion can be alleviated by rest, but mental stress stays with you no matter how long you sleep. I say that as someone who has worked as an attorney, and who has also been a SAHM. Working a 70 hour week at a very demanding job, having to meet often unrealistic billable quotas, keeping up with the law, and having to find new business at the same time can be pretty tough. But almost everyone thinks they have it tougher than the next guy. It is the rarest soul who will admit, "Lucky me; I have an easy job!"

 

[Said1]

It is the rarest soul who will admit, "Lucky me; I have an easy job!"

I have an easy job.

Oh, the horror.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I have an easy job.

Oh, the horror.

What a woman!

 

[Annie]

Just because it's done out of love doesn't make it easier.

Try staying home with 3 kids all under 4 when they're all sick and puking. Love them to death, but that's exhausting. No question at those times I would have gladly switched positions with my husband.

Sick and puking sucks. Sick without puking is a break. They are quiet. Three healthy kids under 5 is beyond exhausting, though wonderful. A man that wants a stay at home wife to 'want' him, had best enjoy his dinner and tell her, 'he's in charge, go take a bath and read for an hour and a half.' Mom will give a good night kiss to the kids and be ready for some talk and then anything. Really.

The hardest part of being at home with kids is the physical coupled with the inability to communicate with an adult about something other than kids.

 

[Annie]

...but what about the OTHER 98% of the time where he slaves away under the soul-quenching thumb of 'TheMan'?

Being at home with the kids is ALWAYS easier than going to work - while at work I'm expected to 'do' something to somebody else's schedule. At home I rule the roost. If I don't WANT to feed the kids at 11, I can wait until 11:30. Or just not feed them.

Nope, I've done both. Work for boss is way easier. I think the same for those that are entrepreneurs rather than working for someone else. It's much harder being your own boss, but more rewarding. There is a connection I'm not making clear, but the proof is in the possibility of payoff.

 

[Annie]

It's equally as dangerous for SAHM's to play the role of the victim, while minimizing the efforts the GTWD puts forth to ALLOW (financially) the M to SAH.

I think you are onto something here. I know when I was home, which I do not regret for the 14 years, I was very mindful that my husband made enough money to make that possible, savings, (for kids' college and retirement), and extras too. (which btw, he took when I filed for divorce.) I never felt I could measure up, he made sure of that.

Mindful enough that I never asked him to do anything that I perceived to be in 'my rhelm.' I took care of house,(inside and out, which considering our home was on 3/4 acre was alot of outside. He did offer to have a landscaping service, but I was trying to save $$$), bills, and kids, he took care of making $$$. He wanted certain things, which meant he did help out early on with giving me a 'break' to get calmed down in early evening. He also helped out with certain kid related community positions, which he used for promotion activities-AYSO, Indian guides/princesses. It was all fitting in with how to keep getting what he wanted.

It was hard to explain, moreso for him than myself, why our marriage failed, we 'looked' so successful. It is hard to see how a narcissitic personality can warp the perfect family. I really didn't see it, until I've watched him do the same thing, with another family. I look at what I've written and think, delete. Then I think, it might help someone else. Note, I'm not 'nice', like I used to be.

Fool me once...

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think you are onto something here. I know when I was home, which I do not regret for the 14 years, I was very mindful that my husband made enough money to make that possible, savings, (for kids' college and retirement), and extras too. (which btw, he took when I filed for divorce.) I never felt I could measure up, he made sure of that.

Mindful enough that I never asked him to do anything that I perceived to be in 'my rhelm.' I took care of house,(inside and out, which considering our home was on 3/4 acre was alot of outside. He did offer to have a landscaping service, but I was trying to save $$$), bills, and kids, he took care of making $$$. He wanted certain things, which meant he did help out early on with giving me a 'break' to get calmed down in early evening. He also helped out with certain kid related community positions, which he used for promotion activities-AYSO, Indian guides/princesses. It was all fitting in with how to keep getting what he wanted.

It was hard to explain, moreso for him than myself, why our marriage failed, we 'looked' so successful. It is hard to see how a narcissitic personality can warp the perfect family. I really didn't see it, until I've watched him do the same thing, with another family. I look at what I've written and think, delete. Then I think, it might help someone else. Note, I'm not 'nice', like I used to be.

Fool me once...

What did he want?

 

[Annie]

What did he want?

I think I've shared enough. I'm sure it's the topics lately, and the message. I just remember why I've got a lot to be grateful for!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I think I've shared enough. I'm sure it's the topics lately, and the message. I just remember why I've got a lot to be grateful for!

I've just been thinking alot about abusive behavior. I was just getting more data, but alas, I realize, you're life is not a corpse donated to science.

I heard this guy Roy Masters on the radio. He was talking about the nature of abusiveness. He's quite smart. His site looks cheesy but what he said was dead on.

http://www.fhu.com/

 

[Trigg]

I never said you said that.

Both jobs are NOT equally stressful. Not even close to equally as stressful. I'll use My job and my wife's SAH-ness.



All sources of stress can be overwhelming. Those sources are not equal, however.

Since my whole point is that both jobs are equally hard and stressfull and you keep saying that they arn't, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

I have been in both situations.

I started working full time after highschool and continued until the birth of my first child. So I know what it is like to handle the stress of office work.

I worked part-time until my second was born and then took 5 years off, I needed the time with 3 children in 4 years. Since then I've worked part-time again, mainly weekends so we didn't have to worry about daycare and all the household chores are still handled by me. With the exception of yard work..hubby does those.

So you see, I really do know what I'm talking about, having been out in the "real world" handling different problems. But, like I said, your holding onto your position and that's fine.

I don't see any of this as whinning, since I appreciate greatly the fact that my husband makes enough to support us this way. He admits that staying home can be a tough job, I don't know how it would work if he thought I wasn't doing my share.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I've just been thinking alot about abusive behavior. I was just getting more data, but alas, I realize, you're life is not a corpse donated to science.

I heard this guy Roy Masters on the radio. He was talking about the nature of abusiveness. He's quite smart. His site looks cheesy but what he said was dead on.

http://www.fhu.com/

More on roy's theory. This is basically what he was saying on the radio the other day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Masters

It seems related to the whole man/woman fissure, in that it's about all human fissures.

Roy Masters has social theories based on his knowledge of hypnotism, and the observations of Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmund Freud, and Ayn Rand, in which there are three types of people: Submissive parasites, dominant predators, and enlightened human beings.

According to this classification, there is the enlightened man, free of desire and fear, content with his life, gracious, disciplined, virtuous, patient and tolorant, accepting of adversity. Roy Masters claims this to be the original state of mankind before the fall in the Garden of Eden (much of this philosophy resembles Buddhism, particularly Zen Buddhism, or the Shambhala warrior tradition as taught in Vajrayana Bhuddism. See: Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche).

Outside of this, however, are people who are described as bestial and subhuman, striving out of trauma induced dependancy or sloaffishness, either towards obvious, tangible resources (money, shelter, or food) or for more subtle reasons (company, attention, distraction). There are two types of people in this group: Submissive personalities who parasitize off others, and dominant personalities who terrorize and prey on others.

Often, submissive personalities lure in their desires by willingly submitting to relatively dominant personalities in return for the safety, power, and prestige that the predator has gained for him or herself, in turn, the dominant personality needs the submissive to aid, comfort, or otherwise react to him or (occasionally) her achievements and presence. Both are thus often locked into a co-dependency which results in frustration, resentment, and ultimately mutual and/or self destruction due to the natural limitations of one to support the other's inherantly unrealistic standards and mutually selfish indignation, compelling one towards transgression and counter transgression, conflict compounding, sometimes to dangerous heights.

Roy Masters states that both types become frightened or jealous, and resentful when in the presence of a Human being, and will either try to destroy him openly through hostile aggression, or subtlely corrupt from within through sympathetic manipulation (Roy Masters often warns his followers of ever engaging in social activity outside of business or professional relationships, a rigid lifestyle which may be one reason why some suspect him of being a cult leader).

Roy Masters teaches that both predators and parasites will use a number of means of living off of others, often through subterfuge and opportunistic exploitation of other's needs, using false pretenses of aid, assistance, relief, or, most common of all "love".

Ever since the trauma of the fall, the latter type has been the prevailing order for humanity and foundation for all human society ever since, each generation being traumatized and then repeating their parent's coping methods, causing further trauma to their own descendants.

 

[Nienna]

RWA, that was really interesting.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

RWA, that was really interesting.

I like interesting things, and junk, and stuff.

 

[Nienna]

I like interesting things, and junk, and stuff.

ME TOO!!!

...or, whatever.

 

[dilloduck]

More on roy's theory. This is basically what he was saying on the radio the other day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Masters

It seems related to the whole man/woman fissure, in that it's about all human fissures.

I agree with mom--interesting and refreshingly light on psychobabble.