When you do think we'll have our first non-religious president?

[Blackrook]

Obama has made no effort to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.

 

[PK1]

Obama has made no effort to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim.

---
Hey bro, you in fantasyland?
Watcha smokin?
.

 

[PK1]

As for Lincoln, he did not like organized Christianity, but in true Christian Faith he had a personal relationship with God.

---
How do you know Lincoln had a personal relationship with God?
Your quotes do not demonstrate that.
All politicians make up stuff to influence voters and soldiers.
.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As for Lincoln, he did not like organized Christianity, but in true Christian Faith he had a personal relationship with God.

---
How do you know Lincoln had a personal relationship with God?
Your quotes do not demonstrate that.
All politicians make up stuff to influence voters and soldiers.
.

Nothing in Lincoln's writings or speeches indicate he had no 'personal relation with God.'

 

[Weatherman2020]

As for Lincoln, he did not like organized Christianity, but in true Christian Faith he had a personal relationship with God.

---
How do you know Lincoln had a personal relationship with God?
Your quotes do not demonstrate that.
All politicians make up stuff to influence voters and soldiers.
.

Nothing in Lincoln's writings or speeches indicate he had no 'personal relation with God.'

No, he never stated in exact words he did. All we have is evidence, and it points that in his last years a change took place. He read the Bible daily. Lincoln's second inaugural address points is the most telling. The speech, which was just 701 words long, mentions God 14 times and quotes the Bible four times, with two references to the Old Testament and two to the New Testament. In comparison, there were zero biblical references in his first inaugural and just one Bible quote in all previous inaugural addresses combined.

 

[Weatherman2020]

As for Lincoln, he did not like organized Christianity, but in true Christian Faith he had a personal relationship with God.

---
How do you know Lincoln had a personal relationship with God?
Your quotes do not demonstrate that.
All politicians make up stuff to influence voters and soldiers.
.

See post 25

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, Lincoln was no born again Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus. There is simply no evidence of that.

On the other hand, his long time friend, law partner, and fellow political operative, was very specific about Lincoln's attitude toward Christianity: "Herndon was particularly pointed about Lincoln’s lack of conventional Christian religious beliefs. He wrote that Lincoln “believed in predestination, foreordination, that all things were fixed, doomed one way or the other, form which there was no appeal. He has often said to me: ‘What is to Behind the scenes - Abraham Lincoln's Classroom will be and no efforts nor prayers of ours can change, alter, modify, or reverse the decree.'”32

And again from Herndon. President Abraham Lincoln was a "theist and a rationalist" who doubted "the immortality of the soul," a close friend said in a letter that provides a rare, intimate glimpse into the Civil War president's religious views.

"Mr. Lincoln’s religion is too well known to me to allow of even a shadow of a doubt; he is or was a Theist - a Rationalist, denying all extraordinary -– supernatural inspiration or revelation," William H. Herndon wrote in a letter dated February 11, 1866, to Edward McPherson, clerk of the U.S. House of Representatives. Letter from close friend offers rare glimpse into President Lincoln's 'theist' beliefs

Lincoln gave no affirmation of Christian belief. None of his writings indicate any belief in an afterlife, or miracles, or etc.

 

[Weatherman2020]

No, Lincoln was no born again Christian with a personal relationship with Jesus. There is simply no evidence of that.

On the other hand, his long time friend, law partner, and fellow political operative, was very specific about Lincoln's attitude toward Christianity: "Herndon was particularly pointed about Lincoln’s lack of conventional Christian religious beliefs. He wrote that Lincoln “believed in predestination, foreordination, that all things were fixed, doomed one way or the other, form which there was no appeal. He has often said to me: ‘What is to Behind the scenes - Abraham Lincoln's Classroom will be and no efforts nor prayers of ours can change, alter, modify, or reverse the decree.'”32

And again from Herndon. President Abraham Lincoln was a "theist and a rationalist" who doubted "the immortality of the soul," a close friend said in a letter that provides a rare, intimate glimpse into the Civil War president's religious views.

"Mr. Lincoln’s religion is too well known to me to allow of even a shadow of a doubt; he is or was a Theist - a Rationalist, denying all extraordinary -– supernatural inspiration or revelation," William H. Herndon wrote in a letter dated February 11, 1866, to Edward McPherson, clerk of the U.S. House of Representatives. Letter from close friend offers rare glimpse into President Lincoln's 'theist' beliefs

Lincoln gave no affirmation of Christian belief. None of his writings indicate any belief in an afterlife, or miracles, or etc.

Interesting position. More evidence Lincoln was a Christian than Obama, yet...

In 1864 some former slaves handed Lincoln a Bible. He replied, "In regard to this great book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Saviour gave to the world was communicated through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong. All things most desirable for man's welfare, here and hereafter, are to be found portrayed in it."

On the day of his assassination he told his wife he wanted to go to the Holy Land and there was no place he more desired to see than the Holy city of Jerusalem.

A desire to go to the Holy land means he was likely either a Jew or Christian. And Jew being very unlikely.

 

[gipper]

As for Lincoln, he did not like organized Christianity, but in true Christian Faith he had a personal relationship with God.

---
How do you know Lincoln had a personal relationship with God?
Your quotes do not demonstrate that.
All politicians make up stuff to influence voters and soldiers.
.

If Dishonest Abe was a Christian, he was a very bad one. Prosecuting a war that murdered 850,000 Americans, merely to expand the power and wealth of the central government, is hardly Christian.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Weatherman has no evidence of an affirmation that Lincoln had a witness of Christ and accepted him as savior.

We have his law partner, friend, and confidante of twenty-five years saying Lincoln was no Christian.

Weatherman is only offering up hopes and dreams.

Whether Lincoln talked about going to Jerusalem is iffy. Even [Stephen] Mansefield himself "acknowledges there are reasons to doubt the veracity of these final words, but he quotes several experts as saying they believe the words to be true." billtammeus.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/11/11-20-12.html#sthash.cD3gOfBd.dpuf

So believe it all you want, Weatherman, but you are taking it only on faith.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Weatherman has no evidence of an affirmation that Lincoln had a witness of Christ and accepted him as savior.

We have his law partner, friend, and confidante of twenty-five years saying Lincoln was no Christian.

Weatherman is only offering up hopes and dreams.

Whether Lincoln talked about going to Jerusalem is iffy. Even [Stephen] Mansefield himself "acknowledges there are reasons to doubt the veracity of these final words, but he quotes several experts as saying they believe the words to be true." billtammeus.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/11/11-20-12.html#sthash.cD3gOfBd.dpuf

So believe it all you want, Weatherman, but you are taking it only on faith.

All I use is Lincoln's own words as evidence.
And in a court of trial, I would convict, you would not.
Time to move on as this is off topic.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Weatherman has no evidence of an affirmation that Lincoln had a witness of Christ and accepted him as savior.

We have his law partner, friend, and confidante of twenty-five years saying Lincoln was no Christian.

Weatherman is only offering up hopes and dreams.

Whether Lincoln talked about going to Jerusalem is iffy. Even [Stephen] Mansefield himself "acknowledges there are reasons to doubt the veracity of these final words, but he quotes several experts as saying they believe the words to be true." billtammeus.typepad.com/my_weblog/2012/11/11-20-12.html#sthash.cD3gOfBd.dpuf

So believe it all you want, Weatherman, but you are taking it only on faith.

All I use is Lincoln's own words as evidence.
And in a court of trial, I would convict, you would not.
Time to move on as this is off topic.

You would lose. There is no evidence of affirmation of Jesus as Savior, no affirmation of Christianity as divine, and expert testimony states he was not Christian.

You are right, let's move on.

 

[JimH52]

Haven't read the pages here but I'll go out on a limb and guess someone has already answered........................................... 'Barack Obama'?

-Geaux

Obama is a devout Muslim, so no.

And you are a Devoted Liar!

 

[rightwinger]

There are many Presidents who were not religious...they just wouldn't openly admit it

LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, Obama

 

[Luddly Neddite]

It is logical to be Catholic, and there are many very smart people who realized that, including scientists. I could get a list if you want to see it.

You can call catholics a lot of things but "logical" certainly is not one of them.

I knew someone who called himself a recovering catholic. He called catholics mackerel snappers and papes.

We've had non-religious presidents as well as atheists but anyone who wants to get elected knows "christians" don't believe in or agree with the first amendment so they don't admit it.

Like Drumpf. He suddenly became a "christian" when he decided to run for dictator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[In God we trust]

Someone that isn't religious that wins the white house. I'll say 2024!!! Not much longer. Bernie sanders isn't very religious and has common sense so it maybe this year!

Why do you care if he's religious or not?

 

[rightwinger]

It is logical to be Catholic, and there are many very smart people who realized that, including scientists. I could get a list if you want to see it.

You can call catholics a lot of things but "logical" certainly is not one of them.

I knew someone who called himself a recovering catholic. He called catholics mackerel snappers and papes.

We've had non-religious presidents as well as atheists but anyone who wants to get elected knows "christians" don't believe in or agree with the first amendment so they don't admit it.

Like Drumpf. He suddenly became a "christian" when he decided to run for dictator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Trumps favorite book is the Bible........just ask him

 

[Muhammed]

Why do people want the church to preside instead of logic?

You are probably one of the most religious people that posts at USMB. I don't think you have much room to bitch.

You are an anti-science zealot who consistently displays a lack of logical reasoning skills.