When will all this madness end?

[Indiana Oracle]

This a good question and it needs to be framed.

First let's remove people who sit 2 or more standard deviations outside the norm of thought in this country. America is full of these wackos. Some debate well and fool us; others are reactionary and vacuous. This latter group either has some kind of personal problem or has been (willingly) brainwashed. We have (a few) of these on this board.

Here are my revolution top 3 as I believe normal Americans might see things.

1. The Congress. Year in and out tries to make us think societies problems are lie at the feet of anything and anyone but them. It is them and the system that keeps them in office which includes campaign financing and the internal seniority system which has no term limits.

2. Centralization of government vs federalism. Persumably this requires not further explanation.

3. Power of the Supreme Court and a President's ability to appoint judges.

In terms of doing nothing and letting The Prophet continue to get away with trying to restructure America, any of you who think all of this discontentment is window dressing and social blah, are very much mistaken.

Ok, folks. Have at it.

 

[KittenKoder]

First let's remove people who sit 2 or more standard deviations outside the norm of thought in this country. America is full of these wackos. Some debate well and fool us; others are reactionary and vacuous. This latter group either has some kind of personal problem or has been (willingly) brainwashed. We have (a few) of these on this board.

The rest of your post is meaningless but ... seriously?

You do realize that America was built on these peoples backs ... also who is to say what is "normal" ... even average ideals are impossible to pin down in America, and that's how it's suppose to be. Admittedly none should be allowed to force their ideals of what is wrong on others because of their extremism ... but without all the colors the rainbow that is America cannot exist ... then it would just be ... well ... Iraq.

 

[007]

When will all this madness end?

When the auto industry want's another 50 billion because Obama motors isn't making a profit?

When the banks want more money because the same people who got us into this mess are still running things?

When unions don't make concessions and operate business as usual?

The bottom line is they're trying to bail the water out of a sinking ship ..without fixing the leak.

One word.... "REVOLUTION." Keep it in mind. It's coming.

what is involved in this revolution?

If you ask "me," I'd say it starts with obama's resignation or impeachment and wipe the slate clean. Reverse everything obama has done, balance the budget, shoot all lobbyists on site, no more pork barrel spending, dump the IRS and institute a flat tax, bring our troops home, kick the damn illegals out and seal the border, and on this short list, end it with TERM LIMITS for congressmen and senators.

[But the ultimate would be a fight between liberals and conservatives, and there's no doubt who'd win that, since most liberals are yellow bellied little pencil necked punks who hate guns and war. Getting rid of all the liberals would be like heaven on earth. THAT would solve 99.9% of all America's problems.]

 

[jeffrockit]

One word.... "REVOLUTION." Keep it in mind. It's coming.

no point in Revolution until we figure out the RIGHT way to run things.

let's face it - none of you could write a better constitution than the one we have now.

we aren't even having a DISCUSSION on how a world after such a revolution should be structured ...

here are some of the major fuck ups i have identified in our current system:

1 - organized religion ( should be abolished )

2 - unions ( should be abolished )

3 - government run education ( indoctrination ) system ( government cannot be allowed to teach history EVER ! )

without completely getting rid of AT LEAST these three there is no point in a Revolution ...

--------------------------------------

we could start by establishing a "think tank" that will develop a model for a future society in at least as much detail as the founding fathers done it with Constitution and Bill of Rights

the output of this think tank should be condensed to a document short enough for anybody to read ( something like 10 pages ) with maybe a series of videos to help explain it

if enough young energetic people can agree on this model then they may decide to "GO FOR IT" and seize power.

to simply go and murder everybody in Washington without any plan for what to do next would be downright irresponsible.

Yeah it's all religion's fault! Lets kill them crazy Christians. They are the reason for the whole economic meltdown and all the world's problems. You get some God loving people organized in a church there's no telling what might happen. They might even.....help us all.....Pray for this country and all that are hurting. I sure don't want that on my hands and can understand your position.
Riiiiiiight.

 

[manu1959]

Well, there is that little thing called "Election 2010". That could be a benefit.

Seriously? You think that will fix anything ... a new face doing the same thing?

What we need to do is let the country fall apart, then rebuild from the ashes. Like a revolution but instead of using force to remind the government of who is in charge, we let the government come begging to us for help.

I think we are coming as close to falling apart without falling completely apart now. There could be a very new kind of politician in the mix this coming election. Remember that obama is as extreme as anyone in our history...could be a benefit.

and yet we aill all send in our taxes in the next two weeks..........

 

[Indiana Oracle]

**Was in a rush on this last post. Apologies. Here is the clarification**

First let's remove from this conversation people who sit 2 or more standard deviations outside the norm of thought in this country. America is full of these wackos. Some are good debaters and fool us; others are reactionary and vacuous. This latter group either has some kind of personal problem or has been (willingly) brainwashed. We have (a few) of these on this board.

Here are my revolution top 4 (was 3).

1. Term-limit the Congress and end the seniority committee membership model.

Year in and out the Congress tries to make us think society's problems lie anywhere and with anyone but them. It is them and the system that keeps them in office too long. Install sweeping campaign finance reform (something that favors newcomers vs incumbents which is what we have now).

2. De-centralize anything in Washington (agencies and the Congress itself) that can be devolved to the states (i.e Federalism). With all that is going on right now in this Congress and administration, persumably this requires no further explanation.

3. Put restrictions on the Supreme Court that stop them from establishing law, and remove the President's ability to appoint judges in favor of election or state appointments.

4. Eliminate Congress' ability to commit taxpayer funds without public debate (ear marks)

Letting the current system go and letting The Prophet continue to get away with working to restructure America is going to be a problem. Any one who thinks all of this talk of discontentment and revolution is window dressing and social blah, is very much mistaken.

 

[007]

**Was in a rush on this last post. Apologies. Here is the clarification**

First let's remove from this conversation people who sit 2 or more standard deviations outside the norm of thought in this country. America is full of these wackos. Some are good debaters and fool us; others are reactionary and vacuous. This latter group either has some kind of personal problem or has been (willingly) brainwashed. We have (a few) of these on this board.

Here are my revolution top 4 (was 3).

1. Term-limit the Congress and end the seniority committee membership model.

Year in and out the Congress tries to make us think society's problems lie anywhere and with anyone but them. It is them and the system that keeps them in office too long. Install sweeping campaign finance reform (something that favors newcomers vs incumbents which is what we have now).

2. De-centralize anything in Washington (agencies and the Congress itself) that can be devolved to the states (i.e Federalism). With all that is going on right now in this Congress and administration, persumably this requires no further explanation.

3. Put restrictions on the Supreme Court that stop them from establishing law, and a remove President's ability to appoint judges in favor of election or state appointments.

4. Eliminate Congress' ability to commit taxpayer funds without public debate (ear marks)

Letting the current system go and letting The Prophet continue to get away with working to restructure America is going to be a problem. Any one who thinks all of this talk of discontentment and revolution is window dressing and social blah, are very much mistaken.

You can go back probably three years on this board and find where I said we need another Civil War. Well, it looks like it's not going to be a Civil War, but rather a peaceful revolution. HOPEFULLY peaceful... maybe not... but it's coming.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

It would surprise me very much of something does not give.

 

[KittenKoder]

One word.... "REVOLUTION." Keep it in mind. It's coming.

no point in Revolution until we figure out the RIGHT way to run things.

let's face it - none of you could write a better constitution than the one we have now.

we aren't even having a DISCUSSION on how a world after such a revolution should be structured ...

here are some of the major fuck ups i have identified in our current system:

1 - organized religion ( should be abolished )

2 - unions ( should be abolished )

3 - government run education ( indoctrination ) system ( government cannot be allowed to teach history EVER ! )

without completely getting rid of AT LEAST these three there is no point in a Revolution ...

--------------------------------------

we could start by establishing a "think tank" that will develop a model for a future society in at least as much detail as the founding fathers done it with Constitution and Bill of Rights

the output of this think tank should be condensed to a document short enough for anybody to read ( something like 10 pages ) with maybe a series of videos to help explain it

if enough young energetic people can agree on this model then they may decide to "GO FOR IT" and seize power.

to simply go and murder everybody in Washington without any plan for what to do next would be downright irresponsible.

Yeah it's all religion's fault! Lets kill them crazy Christians. They are the reason for the whole economic meltdown and all the world's problems. You get some God loving people organized in a church there's no telling what might happen. They might even.....help us all.....Pray for this country and all that are hurting. I sure don't want that on my hands and can understand your position.
Riiiiiiight.

While I don't agree that they should be banned any more than gay marriage, but that's the problem, sitting around praying to an imaginary sky man instead of doing something ... then taking credit for it when things do get better though they had nothing to do with it ... it's not hurting, but it is in no way helping anything either.

 

[manu1959]

no point in Revolution until we figure out the RIGHT way to run things.

let's face it - none of you could write a better constitution than the one we have now.

we aren't even having a DISCUSSION on how a world after such a revolution should be structured ...

here are some of the major fuck ups i have identified in our current system:

1 - organized religion ( should be abolished )

2 - unions ( should be abolished )

3 - government run education ( indoctrination ) system ( government cannot be allowed to teach history EVER ! )

without completely getting rid of AT LEAST these three there is no point in a Revolution ...

--------------------------------------

we could start by establishing a "think tank" that will develop a model for a future society in at least as much detail as the founding fathers done it with Constitution and Bill of Rights

the output of this think tank should be condensed to a document short enough for anybody to read ( something like 10 pages ) with maybe a series of videos to help explain it

if enough young energetic people can agree on this model then they may decide to "GO FOR IT" and seize power.

to simply go and murder everybody in Washington without any plan for what to do next would be downright irresponsible.

Yeah it's all religion's fault! Lets kill them crazy Christians. They are the reason for the whole economic meltdown and all the world's problems. You get some God loving people organized in a church there's no telling what might happen. They might even.....help us all.....Pray for this country and all that are hurting. I sure don't want that on my hands and can understand your position.
Riiiiiiight.

While I don't agree that they should be banned any more than gay marriage, but that's the problem, sitting around praying to an imaginary sky man instead of doing something ... then taking credit for it when things do get better though they had nothing to do with it ... it's not hurting, but it is in no way helping anything either.

if people find peace and strength in their religious meditation why does it matter.....

 

[KittenKoder]

Yeah it's all religion's fault! Lets kill them crazy Christians. They are the reason for the whole economic meltdown and all the world's problems. You get some God loving people organized in a church there's no telling what might happen. They might even.....help us all.....Pray for this country and all that are hurting. I sure don't want that on my hands and can understand your position.
Riiiiiiight.

While I don't agree that they should be banned any more than gay marriage, but that's the problem, sitting around praying to an imaginary sky man instead of doing something ... then taking credit for it when things do get better though they had nothing to do with it ... it's not hurting, but it is in no way helping anything either.

if people find peace and strength in their religious meditation why does it matter.....

Who said anything about that, talking about sitting around and praying for a fix instead of doing something about it then trying to claim credit for it ... that just pisses me off when lazy asses do that, regardless of what religious views you have.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

To the actively Christian-minded, dealing with the actions of man's fallen nature in the manner many do is part of their faith. But recall that all formal military field operations have active Chaplins on staff and prayers are said before going into combat. I would avoid assuming that Christians are not ready for some kind of structural revolution.

Getting hung up about religion is not pertinent to the structural changes we need and is, basically, a show of judgmentalism and intolerance. It is not an issue. Religion is not running anything per se. If you had a problem with Bush 43's evangelical overlay so did I, as it, too, was judgemental. But that is another story.

 

[007]

To the actively Christian-minded, dealing with the actions of man's fallen nature in the manner many do is part of their faith. But recall that all formal military field operations have active Chaplins on staff and prayers are said before going into combat. I would avoid assuming that Christians are not ready for some kind of structural revolution.

Getting hung up about religion is not pertinent to the structural changes we need and is, basically, a show of judgmentalism and intolerance. It is not an issue. Religion is not running anything per se. If you had a problem with Bush 43's evangelical overlay so did I, as it, too, was judgemental. But that is another story.

Our nation was founded on Judea Christian fundamentals. You think that now we should just turn our backs on that?

 

[wimpy77]

go ahead and start your revolution and we won't have to worry about your stupidity anymore.

 

[KittenKoder]

To the actively Christian-minded, dealing with the actions of man's fallen nature in the manner many do is part of their faith. But recall that all formal military field operations have active Chaplins on staff and prayers are said before going into combat. I would avoid assuming that Christians are not ready for some kind of structural revolution.

Getting hung up about religion is not pertinent to the structural changes we need and is, basically, a show of judgmentalism and intolerance. It is not an issue. Religion is not running anything per se. If you had a problem with Bush 43's evangelical overlay so did I, as it, too, was judgemental. But that is another story.

Our nation was founded on Judea Christian fundamentals. You think that now we should just turn our backs on that?

Seriously? (there I go again) Is that all you have? England was founded on the Catholic Church ... but they didn't get any better until recently, when they booted the church from their government. Japan was founded on Samurai ideologies ... you really think they'd be as far as they are now if they kept that feudalistic ideology? As countries evolve in order for them to remain strong they must, without fail, embrace all religious beliefs while the government must push a greater distance from them.

 

[foggedinn]

Revolution hasn't really been a viable option since the trinity tests of 1945. Any serious attempt at armed revolution would justifiably be put down ruthlessly and brutally.

However wronged you may feel by the governments current actions, those actions don't represent the tenth part of one percent of what the government would and should do to put down any sort of violent insurrection.

The only certain outcome of a successful revolution is that (at least initially) this country's nuclear arsenal would end up in the hands of a bunch of certifiable lunatics.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

PaleR--
Not at all.

My view is that if we are going to discuss ending the madness/revolution, centering the discussion on religion (which includes mine) leads to noise instead of substance; food for anarchists and people who want to shout down other opinion.

The majority of Americans having to make this accommodation is due in large part to what many opinion makers and university types have succeeded in doing to religion's active place in America over a protracted period. We see this in the dialogue of people today in their 20's and 30's. Focusing on morality in public policy is another matter.

So when it comes to religion in discussing a new economic and/or social framework in America the position I am taking is that religiousity does not lead in a straight line to morality-based policy and aethism does not lead in a straight line to amorality-based policy.

 

[slackjawed]

The one suggestion I don't see on here is to end the revolution by re-adopting and actually following the constitution.

 

[007]

PaleR--
Not at all.

My view is that if we are going to discuss ending the madness/revolution, centering the discussion on religion (which includes mine) leads to noise instead of substance; food for anarchists and people who want to shout down other opinion.

The majority of Americans having to make this accommodation is due in large part to what many opinion makers and university types have succeeded in doing to religion's active place in America over a protracted period. We see this in the dialogue of people today in their 20's and 30's. Focusing on morality in public policy is another matter.

So when it comes to religion in discussing a new economic and/or social framework in America the position I am taking is that religiousity does not lead in a straight line to morality-based policy and aethism does not lead in a straight line to amorality-based policy.

Then we politely disagree. I think morality is based firmly in religion. Man can never self impose morality. It changes. I'm 53 years old, and I've seen it. TV is a great example. "I Dream of Jeannie" for an example. Barbra Eden couldn't even show her navel, but now late night TV can show ass, tits, cuss... and it's because "man" has allowed it to happen. It's a decay of morality. Look at the swim suits of old. They looked much like full clothing. Now, string bikinis, thongs, topless beaches. None of this comes from the Bible. None. If man were to fully eliminate Christianity, which is the most prevalent religion in America, then I submit morality would decay to the point where soon hard core porn would be allowed on prime time TV. Yes this is a societal point, but when society degrades to that point, economic issues will run a parallel. When peoples attitudes change that much, not only will their morality be effected, but their whole train of thought as well.

 

[KittenKoder]

Pole Rider ... seriously? Just ... seriously?