When is too young? How to decide?

[90K]

Mybe age, maybe experieces have my back on this subject? I dunno but I've fought my wars and found it is easier to except what I can change, and having the wisdom to know the difference. Yeah the Serenity Prayer in my version but that is how I feel. Twenty years ago I was much different full of fire and challeging everything because I could.


I didn't lay down and play dead I gave you what my views were in a pretty decent way.

 

[hjmick]

And in that case ift is through love and reasonable moderation of your beliefs that your daughter can learn in life what you taught her is she pleases. you tried and that is all we can do.

I try to explain to her my position regarding religion, at the same time I let her know that, whether or not a person is religious isn't important. What is important is how you treat others. I also explain to her that it is important to respect others and their beliefs, that she should not think less of somone because the believe. I tell her that one religion is no more important than another, that they all have their virtues and that none of them have all the answers. I tell her these things are my opinion. I also tell her that if she chooses to worship, that is okay too. I have no problem with religion on the whole, it's just not for me.

I do, however, take issue when someone starts preaching at me, tries to convert me, or knocks on my door and hands me a tract that will save my life.

 

[90K]

I try to explain to her my position regarding religion, at the same time I let her know that, whether or not a person is religious isn't important. What is important is how you treat others. I also explain to her that it is important to respect others and their beliefs, that she should not think less of somone because the believe. I tell her that one religion is no more important than another, that they all have their virtues and that none of them have all the answers. I tell her these things are my opinion. I also tell her that if she chooses to worship, that is okay too. I have no problem with religion on the whole, it's just not for me.

I do, however, take issue when someone starts preaching at me, tries to convert me, or knocks on my door and hands me a tract that will save my life.

I have a 16 year old and I can say the world is different than I recall. Hopefully what you are telling her will be filed in a place that comes back automatically, not today bit someday and she'll see your point clearer.

 

[hjmick]

I have a 16 year old and I can say the world is different than I recall. Hopefully what you are telling her will be filed in a place that comes back automatically, not today bit someday and she'll see your point clearer.

Well, at 14 she seems a decent sort. I'd have to say, so far so good.

 

[Superlative]

I do, however, take issue when someone starts preaching at me, tries to convert me, or knocks on my door and hands me a tract that will save my life.

Rent Jesus Camp.

breeding brainwashing and producing future extremists.

 

[Vintij]

I agree, I have always had very little respect for those who tell you not to read about anything that contradicts the bible. Its a form of brainwashing. Same goes for scientology. Just remember, scientology has nothing to do with actual science.

Anyway, dont bother getting into a discussion with an extreme evangelical. You will never convince them of anything.

 

[Superlative]

I agree, I have always had very little respect for those who tell you not to read about anything that contradicts the bible. Its a form of brainwashing. Same goes for scientology. Just remember, scientology has nothing to do with actual science.

Anyway, dont bother getting into a discussion with an extreme evangelical. You will never convince them of anything.

Some times, i wouldnt mind trying.
But after enountering RSR, I think the same intellect prevails.
Which makes me reconsider.

Although I wouldnt mind having a devout believer contribute to this thread. it would appear, obviously outnumbered, but it would be an enjoyed challenge and debate.

as long as it stayed civil.

 

[Vintij]

Good point. Where did all the conservatives go? I guess this subject is a bit too contraversial.

 

[Superlative]

Good point. Where did all the conservatives go? I guess this subject is a bit too contraversial.

Alot of people tend to keep clear of arguements that can be lost, or faulted by logic.

Unless you're RSR, then you just ignore both and carry on pasting.

 

[Diuretic]

You can't save that type of person (oops, bad pun sorry). But you can neutralise their arguments.

 

[Bullypulpit]

I believe that morals have some sort of religious back ground even if they aren't out right spoken. I will agree with Vintij on that post. Our world has taken for granted that children have this ability to be responsible thinkers at young ages. That isn't so, we really should slow down the growing up process and allow them to be children. It is a short period in life when we look back.

To assume that morality depends upon religion is flawed, at best.

 

[Diuretic]

Ethics preceded religion. But religion was - and probably still is - a powerful social control agent. Think about it, a supreme being can see everything you do, knows everything you think.

 

[hjmick]

Think about it, a supreme being can see everything you do, knows everything you think.

Are we talking about Santa Claus now?

 

[Superlative]

Are we talking about Santa Claus now?

George Carlin put it best

..........Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story.......

 

[Diuretic]

Are we talking about Santa Claus now?

Noooooo, that song!

Oh! You better watch out,
You better not cry,
You better not pout,
I'm telling you why:

Santa Claus is coming to town!

You know up until I was 25 I thought all the other kids got lumps of coal at Christmas too. Boy when I found out they got toys, was I ever embarrassed.

 

[Diuretic]

George Carlin put it best

..........Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story.......

God is broke too? Damn, you reckon Benny Hinn can give Him a loan or something? Just a tiny percentage interest though, got to watch that temper when He finds out about usury.

 

[Eightball]

you think without religion there would be no basis for morality?

humans could not distinguish right from wrong without religion?

Think, "Lord Of The Flies".....

Bunch of choir boys stranded on an island. No adult authority, just the boys own decisions. How does the book end...........utter anarchy.

Ok, it was non-fiction, but it certainly isn't an unreasonable possibility. Just raise some of your own from babies to adulthood..........From helplessness to accountability..............Before accountability, they need discipline to learn to be sensitive to others, to share, to just plain obey and do what's good for them and others around them. Then gradually there's a dawning.......At least hopefully they aren't born with a seared conscience, and the start to apply the principles that you've taught them.

Now as far as teaching them a wide spectrum of belief systems or religions or philosophys.........I would think that parents would naturally desire, to teach the ethics and morals that they themselves adhere too, and most likely the base or foundational belief system that spawned those ethics or morals. When a child reaches the ages of accountability, they will have the opportunity to go into the world and also test out other religious beliefs/philosophys against their childhood training and decide for themselves.

Many folks end up joining other religions or refraining from the religions of their parents. This is the maturing part of becoming a full fledged human being. Many will reject Mom and Pop's belief system, and will years later return to it.

It's a natural and healthy part of maturing humanity in it's early adult stage to "test" the waters so-to-speak, and see whats out there.

Our kids can't be guarded in guilded cages. I know it's scarey as parents, but if we want them to maturate and return to us as full fledged adults with full fledged powers of analysis and reason, we must let go.

In their early ages, we apply our religious beliefs as that's how we as parents perceive our reality the world and truth. It doesn't sentence our children to a life of never having a choice. We hope to foundationally give them a kick-start, and then pray for them and hopefully are availbable to give counsel at times if asked. Even then, when they are at that accountability time of life, we must be careful to not harrangue them with our belief system, unless they ask us specifically about how it in light of needed counsel. Never the less, respect their adulthood, and they will in-turn respect you more and the foundational principles that you passed on to them in childhood.

Maybe some of us are on the right track and some of parents aren't. There will be a time when we will all be accountable for what we passed onto our offspring. I guarantee it.

 

[90K]

Alot of people tend to keep clear of arguements that can be lost, or faulted by logic.

Unless you're RSR, then you just ignore both and carry on pasting.

I won't agree on that logic, I'm a conservative, but it that the issue here really?? I might not answer back because I feel as if I'm not making my point clear enough. But the bottom line is I believe what I believe and I highly doubt I can change your views or even get you to consider my points if you've set out to be against my points or if we are against these points collectively.
So when I lay my head down at night I chose to answer my day from my view and actions not yours.

And these subjects are tended to be asked or discussed by interpretation by the presenter.

 

[90K]

There will be a time when we will all be accountable for what we passed onto our offspring. I guarantee it.

I still like to think that but then again I get these visions of our kids pushing us into gas chambers later in life I have a step teenager that thinks it is everyones elses fault on most everything that happens to them. This attitude has been around since they were 5 yeears old. Her father is a freaking lazy ass pig and thus it is everyones fault he can't hold a job, or any host of earth stopping issues. So through this childs brief life I have been about responsibility and frankly having responsibility sucks at any age! But I've tried to stress at times that being accountable is easer than being in the joint. So as I'm wheeled into the gas chamber hopefully I'll be calm, silent and looking on if that day ever happens.

 

[Diuretic]

Think, "Lord Of The Flies".....

Bunch of choir boys stranded on an island. No adult authority, just the boys own decisions. How does the book end...........utter anarchy.

Ok, it was non-fiction, but it certainly isn't an unreasonable possibility. Just raise some of your own from babies to adulthood..........From helplessness to accountability..............Before accountability, they need discipline to learn to be sensitive to others, to share, to just plain obey and do what's good for them and others around them. Then gradually there's a dawning.......At least hopefully they aren't born with a seared conscience, and the start to apply the principles that you've taught them.

Now as far as teaching them a wide spectrum of belief systems or religions or philosophys.........I would think that parents would naturally desire, to teach the ethics and morals that they themselves adhere too, and most likely the base or foundational belief system that spawned those ethics or morals. When a child reaches the ages of accountability, they will have the opportunity to go into the world and also test out other religious beliefs/philosophys against their childhood training and decide for themselves.

Many folks end up joining other religions or refraining from the religions of their parents. This is the maturing part of becoming a full fledged human being. Many will reject Mom and Pop's belief system, and will years later return to it.

It's a natural and healthy part of maturing humanity in it's early adult stage to "test" the waters so-to-speak, and see whats out there.

Our kids can't be guarded in guilded cages. I know it's scarey as parents, but if we want them to maturate and return to us as full fledged adults with full fledged powers of analysis and reason, we must let go.

In their early ages, we apply our religious beliefs as that's how we as parents perceive our reality the world and truth. It doesn't sentence our children to a life of never having a choice. We hope to foundationally give them a kick-start, and then pray for them and hopefully are availbable to give counsel at times if asked. Even then, when they are at that accountability time of life, we must be careful to not harrangue them with our belief system, unless they ask us specifically about how it in light of needed counsel. Never the less, respect their adulthood, and they will in-turn respect you more and the foundational principles that you passed on to them in childhood.

Maybe some of us are on the right track and some of parents aren't. There will be a time when we will all be accountable for what we passed onto our offspring. I guarantee it.

All of which can be done without religion. I can elaborate if you'd like.