When did Zionism have anything to do with religion?

Humanity, et al,

The confusion might be in the close association between Zionism and those of the Jewish faith.

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...
(COMMENT)

Yes, one could say that it is movement that furthers the consummation of the national aspirations of a membership comprised of mostly constituents of the Jewish faith and culture.

But not all those followers of the Jewish faith and culture are zionists.

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel
(COMMENT)

I am not sure that being a follower or practicing the Jewish Faith is a necessary or sufficient condition to be a Zionist.

You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!
(COMMENT)

I'm not sure what Zionism means anymore in the practical sense. At one time, it was associated with the concept of self-determination. And while the Zionist Union is most often described as a center-left party, it is, more often than not, very right-wing (Hard Line) on issues in dealing with the Palestinians.

I to believe that the Israelis will eventually let the Zionist Movements slip away into the dark void.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Humanity, et al,

The confusion might be in the close association between Zionism and those of the Jewish faith.

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...
(COMMENT)

Yes, one could say that it is movement that furthers the consummation of the national aspirations of a membership comprised of mostly constituents of the Jewish faith and culture.

But not all those followers of the Jewish faith and culture are zionists.

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel
(COMMENT)

I am not sure that being a follower or practicing the Jewish Faith is a necessary or sufficient condition to be a Zionist.

You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!
(COMMENT)

I'm not sure what Zionism means anymore in the practical sense. At one time, it was associated with the concept of self-determination. And while the Zionist Union is most often described as a center-left party, it is, more often than not, very right-wing (Hard Line) on issues in dealing with the Palestinians.

I to believe that the Israelis will eventually let the Zionist Movements slip away into the dark void.

Most Respectfully,
R

Term is highly over used by hate mongers. I would like to see it fade away. Just say Israeli nationalism or historic jewish state.
 
Following on from a recent comment by a British Zionist I thought I would ask this question of peoples views/understanding of Zionism....

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel

I am all for the establishment of homelands for displaced peoples... The Kurds for example....

However, as far as I am aware, The Kurds are not looking for a homeland that is exclusively Kurdish! They live where they have ALWAYS lived, but have been oppressed/persecuted through the millennia.

There are a great many tribes around the world who wish for a homeland, for nationalist and political reasons, NOT for religious reasons!

Two other prominent examples, Tamil and Sawaari, have also been fighting for decades for a homeland...

All are tribes, not religions!

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!

So you are for a " Palestinian state" with a NJA policy but not a Jewish one that allows Arabs? Tell us why there are approx. 50 Arab/ Muslim Countries , many with a NJA policy yet there is no condemnation. It's because you're a Racist

Nope, cannot be racist against a religion!

OK, bigoted then.

Not at all....

I think you confuse me with Phoney the Yorkshireman!





NOPE he/she can see your posts and knows you to be a bigot
 
Humanity, et al,

The confusion might be in the close association between Zionism and those of the Jewish faith.

It seems that even the Zionist supporters are now stating that Zionism has NOTHING to do with religion...
(COMMENT)

Yes, one could say that it is movement that furthers the consummation of the national aspirations of a membership comprised of mostly constituents of the Jewish faith and culture.

But not all those followers of the Jewish faith and culture are zionists.

Here is what the British Zionist posted...

Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת, IPA: [t͡sijo̞ˈnut], translit.Tziyonut, after Zion) is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the reestablishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel
(COMMENT)

I am not sure that being a follower or practicing the Jewish Faith is a necessary or sufficient condition to be a Zionist.

You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

Whether your view of nationalism is primordialist or modernist, the fact remains that Zionism is a Nationalistic Political movement that, to be fair, is outdated and frowned upon by modern society!
(COMMENT)

I'm not sure what Zionism means anymore in the practical sense. At one time, it was associated with the concept of self-determination. And while the Zionist Union is most often described as a center-left party, it is, more often than not, very right-wing (Hard Line) on issues in dealing with the Palestinians.

I to believe that the Israelis will eventually let the Zionist Movements slip away into the dark void.

Most Respectfully,
R

Term is highly over used by hate mongers. I would like to see it fade away. Just say Israeli nationalism or historic jewish state.





That means they will have to find a new word to mangle and hide behind to mask their RACISM. The have used Israel, Israeli, Zionist, Zionist entity and a whole host of other terms in the belief that they are hiding their RACIAL HATRED from sight
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?
 
Humanity, et al,

As I previously agreed to, I believe that the modern day "Zionism Movement" has outlived its usefulness.

You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?
(COMMENT)

(The Opinion of an Outside Observer)

I will agree that, like a lobbyist and activist, both Zionism and the Alliance [Alliance Israélite Universelle (AIU)] in terms of a organizational structure --- a Jewish collective, having the common goals to advance their shared political, social, and economic and industrial views such that it might influence government. When we speak of nationalism we generally mean to describe four issues (particular to Israel and the Jewish State):

(1) Transmitting the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their national identity,
(2) Endorsing the actions that the members of a nation take when seeking to achieve self-determination.
(3) Promoting the continued maintenance of the nation that arose from self-determination.
(4) Protecting and preserving the condition of contemporary Judaism and Jewish civilization and culture.​

The competing basic ideal are that, in thumbnail view:

The Alliance promotes the ideals of Jewish self-defense and self-sufficiency through education and professional development (socially, economically, educationally, and industrially).
The Zionist promotes the re-establishment of the Jewish National Home and the development and protection of a Jewish State of Israel.​

There is no essential difference in a Nationalist, Zionist, or a follower of the old Alliance. BUT, with Zionism, there is baggage attached and this baggage is used to stipulate that anything to do with Zionism is despicable; an unfortunate legacy. That baggage (rightly or wrongly) revolves around the expression of expansionism (of the current State of Israel) and repatriation (of the defined territory of ancient Israel/Judah). "As In his letter to Ghandi, Martin Buber (1878–1965) insisted on the spatial orientation of Jewish existence and defended the Zionist cause against the critic who saw in it only a form of colonialism." We see this here, in our own forum.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?





But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use

Ouch, not another Phoney fail!

Didn't answer a single question!

So, let's try again...

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

No Phoney, I am not just going to take your insane rantings as evidence...

You have got an opportunity to finally score a point against me here Phoney...

Looks like it's you being an ignorant dumbass again!
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use

Ouch, not another Phoney fail!

Didn't answer a single question!

So, let's try again...

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

No Phoney, I am not just going to take your insane rantings as evidence...

You have got an opportunity to finally score a point against me here Phoney...

Looks like it's you being an ignorant dumbass again!

I don't really think Humanity is bigoted towards Jews. I just think he is misguided in his beliefs about "Palestine", and I didn't like him playing around with words. (BTW, I am a he.)
 
With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use

Ouch, not another Phoney fail!

Didn't answer a single question!

So, let's try again...

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

No Phoney, I am not just going to take your insane rantings as evidence...

You have got an opportunity to finally score a point against me here Phoney...

Looks like it's you being an ignorant dumbass again!

I don't really think Humanity is bigoted towards Jews. I just think he is misguided in his beliefs about "Palestine", and I didn't like him playing around with words. (BTW, I am a he.)

Thank you...

My beliefs, based upon historical fact, current affairs and a huge dose of humanity, and are mine to make...

"Misguided"? No more than anyone else beliefs!

You see, I am more than happy to accept when I am wrong, unlike some here. I am also more than happy to look at things objectively...

I have stated, on more than one occasion, that I believe that the Jews have a right to a homeland... As I believe the Palestinians have a right to a homeland...

I do not like the way the Israeli government manipulates the media, with assistance from the US, I do not like the way that there is very little coming out of Israel to find a peaceful solution. For example, sending more settlers into occupied territory is NOT a road to peace!

I am not anti Jew, far from it, I am however anti Israeli government policies... Does that make me bigoted? Does that make me antisemitic? Well, I will let you decide...

Suffice to say, I am against some of my own governments policies also!
 
Today in Jewish History - Tammuz 11

Yahrtzeit of Alfred Dreyfus (1859 - 1935), a French army officer who was falsely arrested and charged with treason. Dreyfus was the victim of a frame-up; falsified documents were exposed in a famous open letter entitled J'accuse! (I Accuse!). This scandal, which came to be known as the Dreyfus Affair, bitterly divided French society for many years. Dreyfus was stripped of his rank and sentenced to life imprisonment on Devil's Island. (Five years later, he was released and later pardoned.)

Theodor Herzl, a Jewish journalist reporting on the trial, was so affected by the anti-Semitism and injustice, that he committed his life to vigorously pursuing the cause of Zionism.
 
But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use

Ouch, not another Phoney fail!

Didn't answer a single question!

So, let's try again...

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

No Phoney, I am not just going to take your insane rantings as evidence...

You have got an opportunity to finally score a point against me here Phoney...

Looks like it's you being an ignorant dumbass again!

I don't really think Humanity is bigoted towards Jews. I just think he is misguided in his beliefs about "Palestine", and I didn't like him playing around with words. (BTW, I am a he.)

Thank you...

My beliefs, based upon historical fact, current affairs and a huge dose of humanity, and are mine to make...

"Misguided"? No more than anyone else beliefs!

You see, I am more than happy to accept when I am wrong, unlike some here. I am also more than happy to look at things objectively...

I have stated, on more than one occasion, that I believe that the Jews have a right to a homeland... As I believe the Palestinians have a right to a homeland...

I do not like the way the Israeli government manipulates the media, with assistance from the US, I do not like the way that there is very little coming out of Israel to find a peaceful solution. For example, sending more settlers into occupied territory is NOT a road to peace!

I am not anti Jew, far from it, I am however anti Israeli government policies... Does that make me bigoted? Does that make me antisemitic? Well, I will let you decide...

Suffice to say, I am against some of my own governments policies also!


So do Yo believe in Jewish homeland in Israel?
why do You tend to look at what You consider Israeli ways to conflict, while turning a blind eye to all
the Peace and Land Offerings by Israel throughout the century? What about water, electricity that was supplied during the wars in spite of all?

Why do You highlight the Israeli negative while neglecting the baestinian breaches of every ceasefire?
 
You can be a Israeli nationalist and not agree with zionism; and there is an argument among some Israelis as to whether Zionism is in the best national interests of Israel.

I am not sure that you can say historically that Zionism was a political movement. It has only been a year since the establishment of the Zionist Union. Not all Zionists are members of the Zionist Union; but may be affiliated with another Party.

With zionism being a nationalist movement, yes of course there are exceptions, but I would think that most Israeli nationalists would agree with zionism.

The way that zionism has worked historically it can only be a political movement. The recently established zionist union is simply a name adopted in the formation of a new political party in an attempt to win votes!

If not a political movement then, historically, how would you describe zionism?

But it is not a terrorist/violent/racist movement as you imply when you use the term out of context and in a racist manner

Just a couple of questions on your latest dumbass post....

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

Three very simple questions...

If you do not have the capacity to answer them properly then don't bother wasting your bandwidth!





With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use

Ouch, not another Phoney fail!

Didn't answer a single question!

So, let's try again...

Where did I imply anything?
Where did I use the term our of context?
How can I be racist against a political organisation?

No Phoney, I am not just going to take your insane rantings as evidence...

You have got an opportunity to finally score a point against me here Phoney...

Looks like it's you being an ignorant dumbass again!






Wrong again as I gave you the answers, here they are again. It is not my fault that you struggle to take them in.


With your out of context use of the term Zionist

When you used it for other than its definition

Because you use the term other than its definition and intended use
 

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